hornby 2020 Hornby A2/2 and A2/3 (2020 Range)

[Crouchja32]

I don't suppose Hornby has any spares available for it yet. 

[kiwitrains]

If you put a TTS P2 in would the sound be authentic or not.

[Crouchja32]

23 minutes ago, kiwitrains said:

If you put a TTS P2 in would the sound be authentic or not.

Since it's a 4-6-2 and not a 2-8-2 anymore. No I don't think it would be authentic 

[Headstock]

32 minutes ago, kiwitrains said:

If you put a TTS P2 in would the sound be authentic or not.

 

Good morning kiwitrains,

 

No, not the right locomotive at all.

 

That said, nobody really knows what a P2 with three cylinders, Lentz rotary cam poppet valve gear and a Kylchap double blastpipe actually sounded like, so the sound chip is probably BS anyway. The nearest existing locomotive to the original P2, for which sound is on record, is probably the Duck of Doom*. The best bet for an A2/2, not surprisingly, would be the A2 or the  A1.

 

I can't wait for the sound chip for the Hush Hush, that should be most amusing.

 

*71000

Edited February 7, 2021 by Headstock
clarify a point

[kiwitrains]

Thanks guys yes I will go for the A1/A2

[atom3624]

Wouldn't it require 'a large locomotive with 3 cylinders and 6'2" drivers', so the P2 would suffice anyway?

 

TTS chips are never in synch anyway - one major reason I don't consider them - would drive my OCD nuts!

 

Al.

[Ian Hargrave]

15 hours ago, atom3624 said:

Mine has:  GFT01-10008025

 
Don’t recall seeing that until now .QC issues once again.

[Headstock]

1 hour ago, atom3624 said:

Wouldn't it require 'a large locomotive with 3 cylinders and 6'2" drivers', so the P2 would suffice anyway?

 

TTS chips are never in synch anyway - one major reason I don't consider them - would drive my OCD nuts!

 

Al.

 

Good morning Al,

 

No way,

 

The size of the driving wheels are not very relevant, neither is the number of axles, be it six or eight. The number of cylinders is relevant but one type of three cylinder locomotive will sound very different to another type of three cylinder locomotive, depending on the drive train and the type of blast pipe fitted.

 

As already explained, nobody knows what the original 2001 sounded like, certainly not like an A2/2. The sound that the locomotive made, was determined by features that were actually closer to 71000, the Duck of doom, not an A2/2. The latter would be almost identical to 60532 Blue Peter.

Edited February 7, 2021 by Headstock

[atom3624]

I suppose mine had 2 'issues', which seem to relate to some observations mentioned.

 

1. The upper smokebox door lamp bracket was canted to one side - I could easily straighten mine with 'gentle persuasion' without damage, so not like others' which have been have generally been found in the boxes.
2. Don't know the name - fall / protector plate for the front 3-link - missing from the detail pack. Looking at Sam's Trains, his pack did not contain this either.  I used one which approximated adequately - from a Royal Scot pack.

That's mine - the rest is absolutely spot on - fantastic-running locomotive with no other issues.

 

Al.

[atom3624]

2 minutes ago, Headstock said:

 

Good morning Al,

 

No way,

 

The size of the driving wheels are not very relevant, neither is the number of axles, be it six or eight. The number of cylinders is relevant but one type of three cylinder locomotive will sound very different to another type of three cylinder locomotive, depending on the drive train and the type of blast pipe fitted.

 

As already explained, nobody knows what the original 2001 sounded like, certainly not like an A2/2. The sound that the locomotive made, was determined by features that were actually closer to 71000, the Duck of doom, not an A2/2. The latter would be almost identical to 60532 Blue Peter.

Hi Headstock.

 

Agreed, much will depend on the blastpipe arrangement - and the pressure of same.

It's so arbitrary in TTS applications it seems to have little relevance anyway!

 

R/C cars / trucks have speedo applications with sensors in the spur and fixed detectors - this can relay actual speeds - engine rotations and on-the-road when correlated correctly.  Surely something similar could be made for upper-end steamies to stop this poor 'chuff' synching once and for all .... then I may get interested in DCC / Sound.

 

Until then, it's just a noise to me, which when I start looking at the drivers, gets me annoyed.

 

Al.

[Bernard Lamb]

So, a bit of the proverbial curate's egg.

Mine lurched down the track for about its own length and stopped.

The left side middle crank pin had come unscrewed.

Fortunately it fell out rather than flew out so I was able to find it.

Valve gear pointing in various directions meant that I had to find a few good photographs showing how it went back together.

I managed and it now runs smoothly.

A good job I had it on my test track rather than the layout as the screw could have one anywhere.

The water scoop is just a lack of QC.

The lamp brackets on mine are in position.

I think it has been built down to a price as the lack of dummy screw couplings and flanged trailing wheels are backwards moves.

The colour?

Mushy pea green for the boiler. However the tender looks much better and the cab sides in dull daylight seem to be a closer match to the tender than the boiler, but under LED domestic lighting the parts appear less varied.

No cab droop or footplate waves on mine.

A nice model but I would rather have paid another tenner for a bit more care and attention.

As has been mentioned the tender is very light and jumps about. Mine also has a squeal and I have yet to identify just which axle is the rogue one.

Bernard

 

 

[Nimbus]

4 hours ago, atom3624 said:

I suppose mine had 2 'issues', which seem to relate to some observations mentioned.

1. The upper smokebox door lamp bracket was canted to one side - I could easily straighten mine with 'gentle persuasion' without damage, so not like others' which have been have generally been found in the boxes.
2. Don't know the name - fall / protector plate for the front 3-link - missing from the detail pack. Looking at Sam's Trains, his pack did not contain this either.  I used one which approximated adequately - from a Royal Scot pack.

The coupling 'banger plate' was fitted to protect the AWS receiver on the front of the bogie. If you loco does not have the AWS battery box beside the driver's side cab footsteps, then the banger plate is inappropriate.

 

The Nim.

[scots region]

Having watched Sams review, and seen the shear amount of QC issues, some of which I noticed but he didn't. I have opted to cancel my order with Hatton. A really poor showing for that price to be honest, especially on a luxury item. I hope the A2/3 is better. 

 

ScR

Edited February 7, 2021 by scots region

[MikeParkin65]

2 hours ago, Bernard Lamb said:

 

As has been mentioned the tender is very light and jumps about. Mine also has a squeal and I have yet to identify just which axle is the rogue one.

Bernard

 

 

I’ve found on the recent Duchess that it isn’t the axle that squeals, its the pickups. I put a dab of Electrolube on the back of each tender wheel that has (touch wood) cured it. 

[MikeParkin65]

5 hours ago, Headstock said:

 

Good morning Al,

 

No way,

 

The size of the driving wheels are not very relevant, neither is the number of axles, be it six or eight. The number of cylinders is relevant but one type of three cylinder locomotive will sound very different to another type of three cylinder locomotive, depending on the drive train and the type of blast pipe fitted.

 

As already explained, nobody knows what the original 2001 sounded like, certainly not like an A2/2. The sound that the locomotive made, was determined by features that were actually closer to 71000, the Duck of doom, not an A2/2. The latter would be almost identical to 60532 Blue Peter.

The size of the wheel is relevant to a proper sound project that has beats per revolution, just not TTS. You need 6 exhaust chuffs per revolution of the wheel therefore the size of that wheel is important. Agree many factors influence the final exhaust sound of a full size loco but in 4mm I would suggest as long as you get the characteristic sound right the finer points wont really come into play. I’d suggest correct whistle, correct beats and broadly similar size of loco should be ‘good enough’ for all but the most exacting of ears. It’s all about creating the illusion isn’t it?

[JSpencer]

16 hours ago, Headstock said:

 

Good morning kiwitrains,

 

No, not the right locomotive at all.

 

That said, nobody really knows what a P2 with three cylinders, Lentz rotary cam poppet valve gear and a Kylchap double blastpipe actually sounded like, so the sound chip is probably BS anyway. The nearest existing locomotive to the original P2, for which sound is on record, is probably the Duck of Doom*. The best bet for an A2/2, not surprisingly, would be the A2 or the  A1.

 

I can't wait for the sound chip for the Hush Hush, that should be most amusing.

 

*71000

 

On a TTS chip, the chuff is quite generic (and notches up like diesel!). Only the whistles change from one loco to the next so if the whistles are the same then a what they say is good for a P2 should work for a A2 (which to the ears of many would be awful in both cases). 

[atom3624]

1 hour ago, Nimbus said:

The coupling 'banger plate' was fitted to protect the AWS receiver on the front of the bogie. If you loco does not have the AWS battery box beside the driver's side cab footsteps, then the banger plate is inappropriate.

 

The Nim.

Good info on the 'banger plate'.

These are just after 'the war' early logo locomotives, so no battery box as far as I'm aware - thanks for the information.

 

Mine'll be a Heritage edition!!

 

Al.

[landscapes]

3 hours ago, Nimbus said:

The coupling 'banger plate' was fitted to protect the AWS receiver on the front of the bogie. If you loco does not have the AWS battery box beside the driver's side cab footsteps, then the banger plate is inappropriate.

 

The Nim.

Hi

 

60501 should not be fitted with an AWS Bang plate as the loco depicts early to mid fifties and AWS I believe wasn’t fitted until the late fifties 

 

But 60505 should have one fitted or possibly in the detail pack.

 

Regards

 

David

[Bernard Lamb]

28 minutes ago, landscapes said:

Hi

 

60501 should not be fitted with an AWS Bang plate as the loco depicts early to mid fifties and AWS I believe wasn’t fitted until the late fifties 

 

But 60505 should have one fitted or possibly in the detail pack.

 

Regards

 

David

Yes, it's in the pack.

Bernard

[atom3624]

Tell you what 'though, it's confusing if you do an 'anti-Clarkson' and actually read the instructions - it's indicated!

 

I wasn't reading too closely, as perhaps it states 'not 60501', but it's definitely indicated as to be attached!

 

Al.

[Headstock]

4 hours ago, JSpencer said:

 

On a TTS chip, the chuff is quite generic (and notches up like diesel!). Only the whistles change from one loco to the next so if the whistles are the same then a what they say is good for a P2 should work for a A2 (which to the ears of many would be awful in both cases). 

 

Good evening JSpencer,

 

So DCC sound has nothing to do with real locomotives. People pay money for that!  Are they ill?

 

5 hours ago, MikeParkin65 said:

 You need 6 exhaust chuffs per revolution of the wheel therefore the size of that wheel is important.

 

Good evening  MP65,

 

 Do small wheels only have room for five and a half chuffs, while big wheels can go up to eleven, just like spinal tap?

 

 

 

[robmcg]

Moving on from the intricacies of sound recordings and chips, I have been self-diagnosed as 'deranged', having weakened and bought a third Hornby A2...  this time a CotN in pristine form.

 

Having bought a weathered ToF from TMC, yet to be despatched, and a pristine A2/3 'Sun Castle' , yet to arrive in the UK, I have been suffering from A2 Deprivation Syndrome, advanced forms of which are indeed debilitating.

 

Also I think the Thompson A2s are quite handsome.  Sort-of.....

 

Need I say more?   Actually, reading quite a lot about the engines they were not in my opinion as bad as some say. I haven't much to say about the character of Thompson, I think there is a lot of the Gresley design team influence in making the things work at all.

 

 

 

Handsome or what?

 

The pic is a still from the Sam's Trains Youtube review, thankyou Sam.

 

edit; well it was, but is presumably in breach of commercial use to publish here.

 

 

Edited February 9, 2021 by robmcg
Copyright images removed

[JSpencer]

7 hours ago, Headstock said:

 

Good evening JSpencer,

 

So DCC sound has nothing to do with real locomotives. People pay money for that!  Are they ill?

 

 

Good evening  MP65,

 

 Do small wheels only have room for five and a half chuffs, while big wheels can go up to eleven, just like spinal tap?

 

 

 

 

Good Morning Headstock,

Sorry but I did not say in my post that DCC sound has nothing to do with real locos!

 

There are plenty of fine DCC sound chips out there with people that can pull of the right sounds and get them synchronized to the movement of the loco. Loksound and Zimo are two of the perfectly excellent sound chip makers who succeed well in producing superb DCC sound chips for example. But they are 2/3 times the price of TTS sound.

 

My comments refer to the TTS chips ONLY. These are the cheapest sound chips on the market, I use many of them as it is better than a plain DCC chip for little more the cost. However you cannot synchronize the wheels to the beat. And the chuff sound notches up like a diesel. The resulting chuff - in general - looks nothing like the real locos they are said to portray (occasionally by luck, they do match at certain speeds on certain locos).

 

If you want an authentic A2 sound through and through then the fully fledged sound chip is the way to go. The P2 TTS chip may make a cheap alternative providing the whistles were the same (I suspect they were but won't claim it) and you do not mind living with the out of sync chuff and a chuff rate that increases by notches.

 

Please (respectfully) avoid taking my post out of context in the future.

 

 

 

[Headstock]

5 hours ago, JSpencer said:

 

Good Morning Headstock,

Sorry but I did not say in my post that DCC sound has nothing to do with real locos!

 

There are plenty of fine DCC sound chips out there with people that can pull of the right sounds and get them synchronized to the movement of the loco. Loksound and Zimo are two of the perfectly excellent sound chip makers who succeed well in producing superb DCC sound chips for example. But they are 2/3 times the price of TTS sound.

 

My comments refer to the TTS chips ONLY. These are the cheapest sound chips on the market, I use many of them as it is better than a plain DCC chip for little more the cost. However you cannot synchronize the wheels to the beat. And the chuff sound notches up like a diesel. The resulting chuff - in general - looks nothing like the real locos they are said to portray (occasionally by luck, they do match at certain speeds on certain locos).

 

If you want an authentic A2 sound through and through then the fully fledged sound chip is the way to go. The P2 TTS chip may make a cheap alternative providing the whistles were the same (I suspect they were but won't claim it) and you do not mind living with the out of sync chuff and a chuff rate that increases by notches.

 

Please (respectfully) avoid taking my post out of context in the future.

 

 

 

 

Lighten up man, its only a bit of fun. Incidentally, the whistles were not the same.

[scots region]

Have the Hattons orders come in yet? I ask because there’s be no official announcement.