hornby 2020 Hornby A2/2 and A2/3 (2020 Range)

[Toftwood]

4 hours ago, robmcg said:

You know it's not inconceivable that Hornby will offer replacement for faulty A2s.

 

Retailers already do of course under trading consumer laws. Presuming there are enough replacements. Some may prefer refunds.

 

Not sure how widespread the issues are.

As the contract is with the supplying dealer, I was about to return my A2/2 to them but as I said in a previous post Hornby picked up on some Facebook chatter and so I am now waiting for return details from Hornby and for a replacement. 
So praise for Hornby for a quick solution. Regardless whether this just a rogue batch or not if you accept a faulty model how are Hornby (or other manufacturers) going to identify and rectify the problem?

This is an important launch for them especially with the A2/3 on the horizon they will want to know that is correct before release. 
 

Pete

[Ian Hargrave]

9 minutes ago, Toftwood said:

As the contract is with the supplying dealer, I was about to return my A2/2 to them but as I said in a previous post Hornby picked up on some Facebook chatter and so I am now waiting for return details from Hornby and for a replacement. 
So praise for Hornby for a quick solution. Regardless whether this just a rogue batch or not if you accept a faulty model how are Hornby (or other manufacturers) going to identify and rectify the problem?

This is an important launch for them especially with the A2/3 on the horizon they will want to know that is correct before release. 
 

Pete

I wonder though how many enthusiasts have a Facebook account. As a club member and the recipient of regular emails,I keenly await one announcing their position on this.Social media isn’t many people’s thing is it ? Praise for Hornby for putting matters right ? Really?  That is their responsibility and one that should be confronted openly via all channels available be it their website or even this forum. Sam rightly raises the issues,causes embarrassment and hey,he gets a replacement.Well,he’s an “influencer”,isn’t he? Draw your own conclusions from that. 

[WisTramwayMan]

1 hour ago, Ian Hargrave said:

 
Ah,I was looking at 60501...Just had a look at their 60505.So it does.Wake up at the back there in Camborne.Unusual for this most reliable of retailers. Not the best advertisement is it ? Says it all.

Perhaps it's the loco that's being cannibalised at the back of the shed to keep others moving.....

 

[RCAR6015]

13 hours ago, Black 5 Bear said:

Sir Nigel Gresley by any chance ?

Bang on!  Black 5 Bear.     

 

Pleased to hear Hornby have picked up on the comments advised on this thread and are taking measures to rectify the situation.

I will now consider the purchase of a re-issued model at a later date, dependant on the outcome of Hornby intervention.

Will be interesting to see how the awaited releases of the next batches are reviewed

[Toftwood]

3 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said:

I wonder though how many enthusiasts have a Facebook account. As a club member and the recipient of regular emails,I keenly await one announcing their position on this.Social media isn’t many people’s thing is it ? Praise for Hornby for putting matters right ? Really?  That is their responsibility and one that should be confronted openly via all channels available be it their website or even this forum. Sam rightly raises the issues,causes embarrassment and hey,he gets a replacement.Well,he’s an “influencer”,isn’t he? Draw your own conclusions from that. 

I think there is a slight misunderstanding here, I was in the process of returning the loco to the dealer as defective goods which is the correct thing to do as the contract is with them not Hornby. If it wasn’t for the off chance post on the Hornby FB page and the subsequent correspondence, the loco would have been returned to the dealer who offered either a replacement (leaving them to dispose of a shoddy item and me with the possibility of them not having any more stock) or a full refund.  The fact that Hornby became involved has meant that I get a correct item, the dealer is not out of pocket or left with a useless item to be returned (?) to Hornby at their cost and Hornby have become aware of a serious problem on one of their production lines. 
 

Pete

[73080]

15 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said:

Actual images of the A2/2 out of the box are few in number. Of those currently online for sale,the only oneI have seen which doesn’t appear to exhibit a glaring fault is on the Kernow website . The Hobby Box of Faversham have 60505 on eBay with images minus its top lamp bracket for £155 plus p&p. 

 

 

In response to this post, it has been incorrectly suggested that the Hobby Shop previously had listed 60505 on its web site.  Only 60501 was listed on the website, and this now appears to be sold.

 

The Hobby Shop deserve full credit for selling a defective model of 60505 in this way and listing its faults, unlike certain other vendors (look for a top lamp bracket on photos on their web sites). 

 

Incidently, it appears that it has sold quickly on ebay, so some-one was happy to pay £155 + p&p for a model missing this detail.

[Ollie K]

Interesting developments re. replacements being sourced quicker than I expected.

 

Still in two minds what to do with mine. The loose pieces have been fixed, my 60505’s cab lean isn’t too bad and I’d vouch it’s the smoothest-running Pacific I own. 
 

But, the wavy running plate is impossible to ‘unsee’, I can’t close the unsightly gap under the front frames and I was interested to see the replacement sent to Sam’s Trains even had neater boiler banding. 
 

Question is, will a retailer replacement be from the new improved batch, or will it be a lottery of missing lamp irons and distorted plastic? Better the devil you know...

Edited February 18, 2021 by OliverBytham
Typo

[Ian Hargrave]

26 minutes ago, Toftwood said:

I think there is a slight misunderstanding here, I was in the process of returning the loco to the dealer as defective goods which is the correct thing to do as the contract is with them not Hornby. If it wasn’t for the off chance post on the Hornby FB page and the subsequent correspondence, the loco would have been returned to the dealer who offered either a replacement (leaving them to dispose of a shoddy item and me with the possibility of them not having any more stock) or a full refund.  The fact that Hornby became involved has meant that I get a correct item, the dealer is not out of pocket or left with a useless item to be returned (?) to Hornby at their cost and Hornby have become aware of a serious problem on one of their production lines. 
 

Pete

Indeed I do understand your position.But did Hornby really exercise due diligence in the case of this particular model  in any case ? On the Heljan thread last week,one member forthrightly accused them of “chucking boxes out” which is rather a lurid way of describing it but in many cases you might say this has been Hornby’s modus operandi for years and unfortunately for all concerned this time it’s caught them out. Agree as you say,a social media encounter helped you but that’s pure serendipity .In your case they’re acting correctly as indeed they should because it is.....and I can’t emphasise it sufficiently.....their unique responsibility .

 

[Black 5 Bear]

51 minutes ago, 73080 said:

 

In response to this post, it has been incorrectly suggested that the Hobby Shop previously had listed 60505 on its web site.  Only 60501 was listed on the website, and this now appears to be sold.

 

The Hobby Shop deserve full credit for selling a defective model of 60505 in this way and listing its faults, unlike certain other vendors (look for a top lamp bracket on photos on their web sites). 

 

Incidently, it appears that it has sold quickly on ebay, so some-one was happy to pay £155 + p&p for a model missing this detail.

Or maybe the loco should have been returned to Hornby for replacement.

Even at £155 + postage, it's hardly a bargain when the normal selling price is £170.99 at other outlets !

Edited February 18, 2021 by Black 5 Bear

[Ian Hargrave]

51 minutes ago, 73080 said:

 

In response to this post, it has been incorrectly suggested that the Hobby Shop previously had listed 60505 on its web site.  Only 60501 was listed on the website, and this now appears to be sold.

 

The Hobby Shop deserve full credit for selling a defective model of 60505 in this way and listing its faults, unlike certain other vendors (look for a top lamp bracket on photos on their web sites). 

 

Incidently, it appears that it has sold quickly on ebay, so some-one was happy to pay £155 + p&p for a model missing this detail.

Question. Why was the model not returned to Hornby with a visible defect by The Hobby Box ? But there,I have seen other examples online for sale with obvious deficiencies so one supposes that for them the better financial outcome was to follow the ebay path. 

[Ian Hargrave]

6 minutes ago, Black 5 Bear said:

Or maybe the loco should have been returned to Hornby for replacement.

Even at £155 + postage, it's hardly a bargain when the normal selling price is £170.99 at other outlets !

 
Snap ! It took me time before the penny dropped. No bargain I agree with a black hole at the top of the smoke box 

[Bishdurham]

Has there been any update as to when the A2/3s will arrive?

[Ian Hargrave]

20 minutes ago, Bishdurham said:

Has there been any update as to when the A2/3s will arrive?

Kernow advises February.Unless of course the above mentioned controversy holds matters up a while....which I imagine it will .If it doesn’t it should IMHO

 

[Derails Models]

The BR Green A2/3's are on Hornby's "items due between 15th and 28th February" list    Of course that's still only an estimate but gives an indication they are expected to be arriving super soon!

 

HTH

Edited February 18, 2021 by Derails Models

[robmcg]

8 hours ago, OliverBytham said:

Interesting developments re. replacements being sourced quicker than I expected.

 

Still in two minds what to do with mine. The loose pieces have been fixed, my 60505’s cab lean isn’t too bad and I’d vouch it’s the smoothest-running Pacific I own. 
 

But, the wavy running plate is impossible to ‘unsee’, I can’t close the unsightly gap under the front frames and I was interested to see the replacement sent to Sam’s Trains even had neater boiler banding. 
 

Question is, will a retailer replacement be from the new improved batch, or will it be a lottery of missing lamp irons and distorted plastic? Better the devil you know...

 

Interesting.  I sympathise about the wavy running plate, some here have removed the body and re-set some details for a partial cure but you shouldn't have to do that. I wonder if the gap at the front might be less obtrusive with a bead of filler or even a sliver of black cardboard, that's what I would do if it annoyed me.

 

It remains to be seen how widespread faults are, and if the replacement engine for Sam's Trains was in fact significantly better in detail paint and assembly then it is up to any buyer to make an assessment regarding repair or return or request to Hornby for replacement.

 

I agree with Ian Hargrave that a product should have these assembly faults.

 

I will open my two models, yet to arrive, with great interest. 

[stewartingram]

I decided when I popped into the garage today, to check my 60501 over more cloely. Earlier in the week I had brought it indoors out of the cold, to fit the accessory pack, but at that time I didn't get round to changing its id to 60502 so it went back to the garage.

Now, what have I found with the build?

When I got it, I unpacked it (carefully). Nothing adrift. When placed on the track, with about a 6' clear run through points, slips and crossovers, I found no issues. A quick test only, it was bitterly cold in there.

Earlier this week when I brought it in, I fitted the extra bits, but can't find the 'bang plate' (?) that goes on the front buffer beam. But that is easy to make myself so hey-ho. However, something much more serious.....

When I turned it over, the linkage of the valve gear was wrong. It wasn't like that when I tested it, it ran impeccably, so it must have been caused by me when bringing it inside. I'm not sure of the names, but the arm that should be attached to the motion bracket was completely out of sync and jammed the motion up. I had to dismantle the loco to lift the motion bracket up, to remove the rivet in the valve gear. This involve filing the back of the rivet to pull it out. Upon re-assembly, the riet would push back in, but slide out, so a tiny drop of cyano on the head secured it. It now runs perfectly again. As I said, almost certainly caused by me, not Hornby/China.

Oh, I nearly forgot, With the handling, I disturbed the front handrail on one side of the tender and had to refit it.

Today I went back to double check the quality of assembly.

No lamp irons missing. Cab sitting level. Footplate has no ripples along its length. No details omitted as far as I could see.

Nameplate on lhs was slightly droopy at the front, but I'm changing id anyway so they will come off.

Am I just lucky or what?

More seriously, somehow I got a dribble of cyano down the tender side, which has damaged the paintwork. I shall have to work on that, I think the heavy weathering will sort it.

OK some self inflicted problems which I can get over, but otherwise a fine specimen. I still have to sort a rimmed chimney though.

[Paddy]

Hi Folks,

 

Just had a wee look at Sam’s video which shows his replacement loco.  Firstly, all credit to Simon Kohler for reaching out to Sam and sending him a replacement.  However, even the replacement is not perfect - the mind boggles.  If that was me, I would have gone over the example I was going to send to Sam with a fine tooth Combe before releasing it.  An opportunity missed a wee bit on Hornby’s part to change the narrative.

 

Kind regards

 

Paddy

 

Edited February 18, 2021 by Paddy

[31A]

11 minutes ago, stewartingram said:

Earlier this week when I brought it in, I fitted the extra bits, but can't find the 'bang plate' (?) that goes on the front buffer beam.

 

Hi Stewart,

 

Is it possible that the 60501 version is not supplied with a 'bang plate' as the model represents a loco which is not fitted with AWS (I believe it has the 'early crest)?  I say that because someone else who had a 60501 made the same comment but I don't think anyone who has 60505 has said that.  Mine is 60505 and it has a 'bang plate'; it also has the AWS battery box mounted on the Cartazzi frame next to the cab steps on the driver's side - maybe 60501 doesn't have the battery box, either?

 

Sorry to hear about your tribulations with the valve gear, but otherwise you seem to have got a reasonably decent model, so well done and proves that some exist!

 

 

[robmcg]

50 minutes ago, Paddy said:

Hi Folks,

 

Just had a wee look at Sam’s video which shows his replacement loco.  Firstly, all credit to Simon Kohler for reaching out to Sam and sending him a replacement.  However, even the replacement is not perfect - the mind boggles.  If that was me, I would have gone over the example I was going to send to Sam with a fine tooth Combe before releasing it.  An opportunity missed a wee bit on Hornby’s part to change the narrative.

 

Kind regards

 

Paddy

 

 

It's quite likely that there are few perfect examples in existence.  

 

Two boxes arrived on my doorstep just now, but I have other duties to attend to until later today...  a sunny cool late-summer day too.

 

Soon we shall learn the truth of the matter!  Bitter or otherwise.

[SD85]

It would seem that Hornby have really set new standards in realism here.

 

They've produced a cheap, shoddy locomotive that has design flaws and is notably not up to the standard of the P2 release. People are now questioning the value of purchasing one.

 

100% accuracy to the real thing then.......

[Black 5 Bear]

8 minutes ago, SD85 said:

It would seem that Hornby have really set new standards in realism here.

 

They've produced a cheap, shoddy locomotive that has design flaws and is notably not up to the standard of the P2 release. People are now questioning the value of purchasing one.

 

100% accuracy to the real thing then.......

Agreed,

When you look closely at the Hornby Railroad P2, it is by far superior in build quality/paint finish than a new A2/2 which is at least double the price.

I've got A2/3 (Sun Castle) on order and hope that it's better in every way than the A2/2.

[robmcg]

1 hour ago, Paddy said:

Hi Folks,

 

Just had a wee look at Sam’s video which shows his replacement loco.  Firstly, all credit to Simon Kohler for reaching out to Sam and sending him a replacement.  However, even the replacement is not perfect - the mind boggles.  If that was me, I would have gone over the example I was going to send to Sam with a fine tooth Combe before releasing it.  An opportunity missed a wee bit on Hornby’s part to change the narrative.

 

Kind regards

 

Paddy

 

 

Could you advise where this review may be found please, a google search does not show any but a 2 week old version.

 

[Black 5 Bear]

Rob,

Sam mentioned the replacement in the attached link and stated it would feature in his next video.

 

 

Edited February 18, 2021 by Black 5 Bear

[robmcg]

Thanks I took a look and it doesn't look to me to be much better, but I once again will not pass judgement until I have looked at my yet-to-be-unboxed model or models.

 

Needless to say this will be a surgical operation, possibly with photos, so no small part will escape.

[Ian Hargrave]

11 hours ago, Black 5 Bear said:

Agreed,

When you look closely at the Hornby Railroad P2, it is by far superior in build quality/paint finish than a new A2/2 which is at least double the price.

I've got A2/3 (Sun Castle) on order and hope that it's better in every way than the A2/2.

 
Amen to that. Can’t see it would be from another factory though. Fingers X until they bleed