hornby 2020 Hornby A2/2 and A2/3 (2020 Range)

[Dominion]

I just noticed that the Hornby tender on 60501 has a higher front plate than on the 60505 model. I think 60501 had its front plate cut down to be lower at some point. Not sure when relative to the livery change.

[robmcg]

9 hours ago, Daddyman said:

It's exactly what happened with the A2/2 (and the J36): "in stock" (at Hornby), "out of stock", and then in shops (IIRC) two weeks after "in stock". 

 

Yes, R3834 and R3835 don't appear at all on the Hornby website now, at least not that I could find. But R3830 CotN and R3831 are 'in stock', 

 

Co-ordinating models received with pre-orders and availability is clearly a delicate art.

[robmcg]

8 hours ago, landscapes said:

Hi 

 

I think that was me, boiler bands replaced 

 

Tender and cab side linings still to be done.

 

not a brilliant photo as taken on my IPhone 

 

Regards

 

David

 

Very impressive!  Will there be be any further weathering?  

 

On a slightly different subject I'm wondering how the imminent A2/3s will look and also did either of the BR versions visit 64B or get used on the Waverley route?

[landscapes]

19 minutes ago, robmcg said:

 

Very impressive!  Will there be be any further weathering?  

 

On a slightly different subject I'm wondering how the imminent A2/3s will look and also did either of the BR versions visit 64B or get used on the Waverley route?

Hi Robbie

 

Thank you, yes there will be more weathering once I have completed the Cab and tender linings.

 

Regarding the Thompson A2/3's, Haymarket only had one member on it's books No 60519 Honeyway but other members of the class were regular visitors to Haymarket.

 

I know Haymarket's A2/1's worked over The Waverley Route as did Honeyway but I am not sure what other members of the class did.

 

Regards

 

David

[robmcg]

Well David the lining and the rich Brunswick green on 60501 has inspired me (again) to see if I can achieve something comparable in my upcoming A2/2 portraits.

 

We are lucky that the prototypes varied so much in paint condition. Your photo really looks good. 

[robmcg]

Three photos showing an interesting comparison.   Not edited so please be aware that lighting and cameras have a major influence, this is for entertainment as much objective measure...

 

Firstly a cropped view of landscapes part-finished 60501.

 

 

Then a Bachmann A2 'out of the box'.

 

 

and a Hornby 60501 similarly 'out of the box'.

 

 

I hope you don't mind David, I should have asked first!    

 

cheers

 

 

 

Edited March 3, 2021 by robmcg
typo

[landscapes]

20 minutes ago, robmcg said:

Three photos showing an interesting comparison.   Not edited so please be aware that lighting and cameras have a major influence, this is for entertainment as much objective measure...

 

Firstly a cropped view of landscapes part-finished 60501.

 

 

Then a Bachmann A2 'out of the box'.

 

 

and a Hornby 60501 similarly 'out of the box'.

 

 

I hope you don't mind David, I should have asked first!    

 

cheers

 

 

 

Hi Robbie 

 

No problem at all, great photos.

 

Regards

 

David

[64F]

3 hours ago, robmcg said:

 

Very impressive!  Will there be be any further weathering?  

 

On a slightly different subject I'm wondering how the imminent A2/3s will look and also did either of the BR versions visit 64B or get used on the Waverley route?

60512 "Steady Aim" certainly ran on the Waverley Route later in its life as it spent most of 1963 at St Margarets before moving to Polmadie for its last 18 months, though of course it had the late crest by that point.  During its early crest period it was a York engine so would have visited Edinburgh now and again - there is a picture of it in Roger Siviter's "Waverley: Portrait of a Famous Route" heading a Carlisle-Edinburgh stopper in April 1961 when it was still based at York.

 

60523 "Sun Castle" was an ER engine so not likely to have visited Scotland often, though that very subject was discussed in this thread:

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/60827-haymarket-64b/page/38/

 

 

[D9001]

Sorry if I sound thick but could a Hornby A2/3 be adapted to become an A2/1, specifically 60509?

[Mad McCann]

I pondered that but the boiler is conspicuously shorter.

 

Davy.

 

[MikeParkin65]

14 hours ago, robmcg said:

Three photos showing an interesting comparison.   Not edited so please be aware that lighting and cameras have a major influence, this is for entertainment as much objective measure...

 

Firstly a cropped view of landscapes part-finished 60501.

 

 

Then a Bachmann A2 'out of the box'.

 

 

and a Hornby 60501 similarly 'out of the box'.

 

 

I hope you don't mind David, I should have asked first!    

 

cheers

 

 

 

So rank order the best renditions are; first place - Landscapes, second place Bachmann and a very distant third by Hornby. Ignoring those unhelpful comments like 'if you want better build a kit and get it professionally painted but don't expect change from £1000' is it really too much to ask Hornby to start again with BR green and get it right? 60501 looks like undercoated plastic compared to the Bachmann finish.

[Ian Hargrave]

The A2/1was fitted with the V2 boiler and consequently had a lower tractive effort .It was also over 10 tons lighter

Edited March 4, 2021 by Ian Hargrave
Improved relevance

[atom3624]

I'm almost finding the 'Bachmann' green 'too green', if that makes sense.

 

Hornby's on recent Kings, Castles, A3's, Brits and Royal Scots is perfectly acceptable.

 

Al.

[Ian Hargrave]

1 minute ago, atom3624 said:

I'm almost finding the 'Bachmann' green 'too green', if that makes sense.

 

Hornby's on recent Kings, Castles, A3's, Brits and Royal Scots is perfectly acceptable.

 

Al.

 
Oh dear,oh dear.    Sorry !

[atom3624]

OK, they all went to the same paint shop, at the same time, painted by the same mix, same painters, who colour matched perfectly, which was maintained throughout B.R.'s era ....

 

I'm sure there were plenty of variations, possibly some blends not available - other brands, and of course the harsh conditions, heating / cooling and general effects of natural weathering. plus bristle brush cleaning ...

 

Al.

[Black 5 Bear]

22 minutes ago, MikeParkin65 said:

So rank order the best renditions are; first place - Landscapes, second place Bachmann and a very distant third by Hornby. Ignoring those unhelpful comments like 'if you want better build a kit and get it professionally painted but don't expect change from £1000' is it really too much to ask Hornby to start again with BR green and get it right? 60501 looks like undercoated plastic compared to the Bachmann finish.

 

Indeed Mike,

I've just ordered the new Bachmann V2 St Peters School after having seen the latest sample pictures.

The livery application/colour on the V2 has got to be one of the best renditions of BR Brunswick Green and in total contrast to the Hornby A2/2 offering.

Not much difference in price either in comparison.

 

 

Edited March 4, 2021 by Black 5 Bear

[Ian Hargrave]

3 minutes ago, atom3624 said:

OK, they all went to the same paint shop, at the same time, painted by the same mix, same painters, who colour matched perfectly, which was maintained throughout B.R.'s era ....

 

I'm sure there were plenty of variations, possibly some blends not available - other brands, and of course the harsh conditions, heating / cooling and general effects of natural weathering. plus bristle brush cleaning ...

 

Al.

Yes but these are replicas in reduced scale of the prototype and sorry H’s representation of BR green in some ( but not all ) of the examples you quote are “off colour “ by many a country mile. 

[Black 5 Bear]

20 minutes ago, atom3624 said:

I'm almost finding the 'Bachmann' green 'too green', if that makes sense.

 

Hornby's on recent Kings, Castles, A3's, Brits and Royal Scots is perfectly acceptable.

 

Al.

Sorry, but the green livery on all the BR/ GWR Hornby Kings is woeful and spoils an otherwise excellent model.

I simply don't comprehend why Hornby don't address this as they've been told about it often enough.

How difficult can it be to get this right?

You can bet the livery colour/application on the new Manors from both Accurascale and Dapol will a different kettle of fish !

Edited March 4, 2021 by Black 5 Bear

[davidw]

4 hours ago, D9001 said:

Sorry if I sound thick but could a Hornby A2/3 be adapted to become an A2/1, specifically 60509?

No it doesn't sound thick as there is a "family resemblance" with Thompson Pacifics, that could lead one to believe that they're very similar. The wheel base is very similar, but the A2/1s were derived from v2's, as V2 boilers were used. Landscapes who frequently posts on this thread has a PDK kitbuilt A2/1. And an A2/3. Cab layout, smoke deflectors and the layout of the s bend in the foot plate differ and so on. Apparently when DJH produced their Thompson kits the A2/1 was considered, along with the A2/2 and A2/3. But dismissed due to significant differences. Hornby I recall hearing came to the same conclusion. PDK do a  kit of the a2/1 if you want one. And Mick Bennet has converted a Bachmann peppercorn A2 to an A2/1 using Graeme King resin parts and Morgan Gilbert's etched valve gear. Will we ever see an A2/1 RTR? Well each member of the class is different from the other but who would have believed we'd have any RTR Thompson 18 months ago.

Hope that helps

Edited March 4, 2021 by davidw

[Keith Turbutt]

12 hours ago, 64F said:

60512 "Steady Aim" certainly ran on the Waverley Route later in its life as it spent most of 1963 at St Margarets before moving to Polmadie for its last 18 months, though of course it had the late crest by that point.  During its early crest period it was a York engine so would have visited Edinburgh now and again - there is a picture of it in Roger Siviter's "Waverley: Portrait of a Famous Route" heading a Carlisle-Edinburgh stopper in April 1961 when it was still based at York.

 

60523 "Sun Castle" was an ER engine so not likely to have visited Scotland often, though that very subject was discussed in this thread:

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/60827-haymarket-64b/page/38/

 

 

According to Yeadon 60512's final shed was Dundee, from 14/6/65, and was withdrawn on 19/6/65. I saw it at Perth on 30/8/65. Is it possible it never got to Dundee? I attach my photo showing it at Perth with valve gear and coupling rods removed -presumably ready for disposal.  According to Yeadon it had already been sold in July to Motherwell Machinery and Scrap Co but clearly hadn't been moved yet.

 

Hopefully I will be receiving the model very soon.

[Mad McCann]

13 minutes ago, Keith Turbutt said:

According to Yeadon 60512's final shed was Dundee, from 14/6/65, and was withdrawn on 19/6/65. I saw it at Perth on 30/8/65. Is it possible it never got to Dundee? I attach my photo showing it at Perth with valve gear and coupling rods removed -presumably ready for disposal.  According to Yeadon it had already been sold in July to Motherwell Machinery and Scrap Co but clearly hadn't been moved yet.

 

Hopefully I will be receiving the model very soon.

Actually a strange move that as I understand that '512 was withdrawn from Polmadie that summer. Perhaps a paperwork mix-up?

 

Davy.

[No Decorum]

34 minutes ago, davidw said:

No it doesn't sound thick as there is a "family resemblance" with Thompson Pacifics, that could lead one to believe that they're very similar. But this is superficial. The wheel base is very similar, but the A2/1s were derived from v2's. A V2 boiler was used. Landscapes who frequently posts on this thread has a PDK kitbuilt A2/1. And an A2/3. Cab layout, smoke deflectors and the layout of the s bend in the foot plate differ. Apparently when DJH produced their Thompson kits the A2/1 was considered, along with the A2/2 and A2/3. Bit dismissed due to significant difference. Hornby I recall hearing came to the same conclusion. PDK do a do a  kit if you want one. And Mick Bennet has converted a Bachmann peppercorn A2 to an A2/1 using Graeme King resin parts and Morgan Gilbert's etched valve gear. Will we ever see an A2/1 RTR? Well each member of the class is different but who would have believed we'd have any RTR Thompson 18 months ago.

Hope that helps

Leaving aside all the comments about the execution, Hornby’s choice of the Thompson Pacifics was courageous and, so far as sales go, apparently successful. Who would have thought that these would appear RTR? They fill gaps in the line up of LNER Pacifics but draw attention rather forcibly to the remaining gaps. An A2/1 is one. I’d be very keen on one and perhaps, with the Thompson Pacifics selling well, we might be in luck, perhaps after Hornby has given the LNER a rest for a year or two. I’m pushing it now but I’d like an A2/2 with its original boiler and in LNER liveries as well.

 

With the Hush Hush sold out to pre-orders, I wonder if Mr. Kohler might turn his attention to the Turbomotive. Not so many variations but, on the other hand, no outside valve gear. 

[thegreenhowards]

3 hours ago, D9001 said:

Sorry if I sound thick but could a Hornby A2/3 be adapted to become an A2/1, specifically 60509?

This might help your decision.

 

 

You will note the not only is the boiler longer with an extra boiler band on the A2/3 but the cab is totally different. The chassis might be a good starting point with a V2 body as the basis for the ‘top half’?
 

for those interested, the A2/1 is ex Gamston Bank but I’m not sure if it was built from the PDK kit. The A2/3 is my conversion from a Bachmann A2 using Graeme King’s resin parts. 
 

Andy

[Keith Turbutt]

3 hours ago, Keith Turbutt said:

According to Yeadon 60512's final shed was Dundee, from 14/6/65, and was withdrawn on 19/6/65. I saw it at Perth on 30/8/65. Is it possible it never got to Dundee? I attach my photo showing it at Perth with valve gear and coupling rods removed -presumably ready for disposal.  According to Yeadon it had already been sold in July to Motherwell Machinery and Scrap Co but clearly hadn't been moved yet.

 

Hopefully I will be receiving the model very soon.

Further to my last post,there are several photos of 60512 on Flickr at Perth. The photo in Robert Gadsdon's album has the comment "60512 had been withdrawn from Dundee Tay Bridge shed in June, but was moved to Perth for two months, before being towed to the scrapyards. There is an unconfirmed report that this loco may have been selected for an - unsuccessful - preservation attempt, but it was later scrapped, and none of the class were preserved."

 

Also one at Rickarton Jcn in Ernies Railway Archive. I think there had been an enquiry about Steady Aim working the Waverley Route so this may answer that.

Edited March 4, 2021 by Keith Turbutt
Additional info

[Daddyman]

3 hours ago, Keith Turbutt said:

According to Yeadon 60512's final shed was Dundee, from 14/6/65, and was withdrawn on 19/6/65. I saw it at Perth on 30/8/65. Is it possible it never got to Dundee? I attach my photo showing it at Perth with valve gear and coupling rods removed -presumably ready for disposal.  According to Yeadon it had already been sold in July to Motherwell Machinery and Scrap Co but clearly hadn't been moved yet.

 

Hopefully I will be receiving the model very soon.

Very nice photo! 

 

Am I right in thinking that the Hornby model is not right for Steady Aim in this late-life condition, due to boiler details, etc, and that Sun Castle would be a better base model?