hornby 2020 Hornby A2/2 and A2/3 (2020 Range)

[davidw]

19 minutes ago, Daddyman said:

Very nice photo! 

 

Am I right in thinking that the Hornby model is not right for Steady Aim in this late-life condition, due to boiler details, etc, and that Sun Castle would be a better base model? 

I think that your statement is correct. Hornby's Steady Aim has an earlier boiler (I can't remember it's designation), earlier chimney and the number plate above the smoke box hand rail not below. Issues that aren't correct for the prototype at its end of life. Sun Castle fits the bill and would just need a diagonal stripe applied to the cab side and rename renumbered.

 

[Keith Turbutt]

13 minutes ago, davidw said:

I think that your statement is correct. Hornby's Steady Aim has an earlier boiler (I can't remember it's designation), earlier chimney and the number plate above the smoke box hand rail not below. Issues that aren't correct for the prototype at its end of life. Sun Castle fits the bill and would just need a diagonal stripe applied to the cab side and rename renumbered.

 

The model of Steady Aim, with early emblem, also has a round dome steam collector further forward. It finished up with a streamlined collector further back on the boiler as modeled on Sun Castle with the later totem. I am sure TW could give us chapter and verse on this.

[Daddyman]

Thanks, both of you - confirms what I thought. 

[Tramshed]

7 hours ago, davidw said:

No it doesn't sound thick as there is a "family resemblance" with Thompson Pacifics, that could lead one to believe that they're very similar. The wheel base is very similar, but the A2/1s were derived from v2's, as V2 boilers were used. Landscapes who frequently posts on this thread has a PDK kitbuilt A2/1. And an A2/3. Cab layout, smoke deflectors and the layout of the s bend in the foot plate differ and so on. Apparently when DJH produced their Thompson kits the A2/1 was considered, along with the A2/2 and A2/3. But dismissed due to significant differences. Hornby I recall hearing came to the same conclusion. PDK do a  kit of the a2/1 if you want one. And Mick Bennet has converted a Bachmann peppercorn A2 to an A2/1 using Graeme King resin parts and Morgan Gilbert's etched valve gear. Will we ever see an A2/1 RTR? Well each member of the class is different from the other but who would have believed we'd have any RTR Thompson 18 months ago.

Hope that helps

I guess another consideration that put Hornby off an A2/1 is the 'what does an 'LNER' version look like?' question. This class underwent changes to smoke deflectors, numbers, tenders etc in their early years and not all followed the same progression. All were built with 6 wheel tenders (V2 heritage) and outshopped in black with 'NE' on the tender and 4 digit numbers between May 1944 and January 1945. The most extreme case appears to be 3697 which underwent 7 changes in appearance in 3 years! In 1946 it had the letters on the tender changed from 'NE' to 'LNER' on 2/3 and the number changed to 508 on 20/7. In 1947 it had the wing type deflectors replaced with conventional type on 17/1 and was named 'Duke of Rothsay'. In 1948 the number acquired an 'E' prefix on 6/2 before becoming 60508 on 26/5. On 24/9 the same year it was painted in 'LNER' green but with 'BRITISH RAILWAYS' in full on the tender. Finally on 15/6/49 it was painted in BR green at the same time as it had its tender changed to the 8 wheel type. Some sympathy with manufacturers trying to pick a winner. 

Edited March 4, 2021 by Tramshed
typo

[Retro_man]

6 hours ago, Keith Turbutt said:

According to Yeadon 60512's final shed was Dundee, from 14/6/65, and was withdrawn on 19/6/65. I saw it at Perth on 30/8/65. Is it possible it never got to Dundee? I attach my photo showing it at Perth with valve gear and coupling rods removed -presumably ready for disposal.  According to Yeadon it had already been sold in July to Motherwell Machinery and Scrap Co but clearly hadn't been moved yet.

 

Hopefully I will be receiving the model very soon.

 

I saw 60512 at Perth on August 7, 1965. Unfortunately I did not take a photo or record its condition :-(

 

Steve

Canada

[No Decorum]

1 hour ago, Tramshed said:

I guess another consideration that put Hornby off an A2/1 is the 'what does an 'LNER' version look like? This class underwent changes to smoke deflectors, numbers, tenders etc in their early years and not all followed the same progression. All were built with 6 wheel tenders (V2 heritage) and outshopped in black with 'NE' on the tender and 4 digit numbers between May 1944 and January 1945. The most extreme case appears to be 3697 which underwent 7 changes in appearance in 3 years! In 1946 it had the letters on the tender changed from 'NE' to 'LNER' on on 2/3 and the number changed to 508 on 20/7. In 1947 it had the wing type deflectors replaced with conventional type on 17/1 and was named 'Duke of Rothsay'. In 1948 the number acquired an 'E' prefix on 6/2 before becoming 60508 on 26/5. On 24/9 the same year it was painted in 'LNER' green but with 'BRITISH RAILWAYS' in full on the tender. Finally on 15/6/49 it was painted in BR green at the same time as it had its tender changed to the 8 wheel type. Some sympathy with manufacturers trying to pick a winner. 

On the other hand, plenty of variety to tempt us with.

[Keith Turbutt]

1 hour ago, Retro_man said:

 

I saw 60512 at Perth on August 7, 1965. Unfortunately I did not take a photo or record its condition :-(

 

Steve

Canada

There is a photo on the Rail-Online photographic website of 60512, front end only, at Perth dated 19/6/1965 - the date it was withdrawn. It appears to still have its valve gear intact. A photo at Perth on flickr dated 13th July shows the valve gear and coupling rods removed. I cannot post these photos as they are subject to copywrite but are easy enough to find on flickr with a simple search using the loco number. Rail-Online is organised by loco classes, so choose Steam Locos/LNER/Class A2. Photos are arranged in loco number order within each class.

[robmcg]

5 hours ago, davidw said:

I think that your statement is correct. Hornby's Steady Aim has an earlier boiler (I can't remember it's designation), earlier chimney and the number plate above the smoke box hand rail not below. Issues that aren't correct for the prototype at its end of life. Sun Castle fits the bill and would just need a diagonal stripe applied to the cab side and rename renumbered.

 

 

Now there's a project to look forward to, having pre-ordered each model.

 

Currently trying to use colour editing tools to make A2/2 60501 look as good as landscapes' version, or even my Bachmann Peppercorn A2    but no luck so far and may have to resort to straight painting (in my case of the virtual kind). 

 

Result will be in the other A2 tread 'Help! I'm Beginning to Like Thompson Pacifics' eventually.

[landscapes]

On 03/03/2021 at 22:06, robmcg said:

Three photos showing an interesting comparison.   Not edited so please be aware that lighting and cameras have a major influence, this is for entertainment as much objective measure...

 

Firstly a cropped view of landscapes part-finished 60501.

 

 

Then a Bachmann A2 'out of the box'.

 

 

and a Hornby 60501 similarly 'out of the box'.

 

 

I hope you don't mind David, I should have asked first!    

 

cheers

 

 

 

Hi Robbie 

 

I think you make a very valid point regarding lighting and different cameras creating different shades of colour in photos.

 

The photo I took which is the first of your three was taken during the daytime and using the existing LED lighting above the layout.

 

When I have completed the re-lining of the cab side and tender sides on 60501 I will take a second photo with the same lighting but in the evening.

 

I will be interesting to compare the differences of the same model in the same room with the same lighting.

 

Regards

 

David 

[Market65]

Well, Thane Of Fife takes shape. I haven’t yet added on the extra parts, but hope to do so tomorrow. So here it is, with the weathering nearly finished - maybe a touch of black onto the driving wheels. But all trace of the horrid green is gone. I have redone, with transfers, the cabside numbers - they seemed just a bit too yellow to my eyes. Plates yet to be fitted, but I wanted to get this photo’ posted to show it in artificial light. I’ll try a photo’ tomorrow in daylight.

 

 

Best regards,

 

 Rob.

[robmcg]

1 hour ago, landscapes said:

Hi Robbie 

 

I think you make a very valid point regarding lighting and different cameras creating different shades of colour in photos.

 

The photo I took which is the first of your three was taken during the daytime and using the existing LED lighting above the layout.

 

When I have completed the re-lining of the cab side and tender sides on 60501 I will take a second photo with the same lighting but in the evening.

 

I will be interesting to compare the differences of the same model in the same room with the same lighting.

 

Regards

 

David 

 

Thanks David,  much appreciated.

 

I have created by virtual means a livery on 60501 which approximates Bachmann Brunswick green, as well as a darker Hornby version, here...

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/162234-help-ive-begun-to-like-the-look-of-thompson-pacifics/page/3/&tab=comments#comment-4349464 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 5, 2021 by robmcg
confusion over embedded link

[landscapes]

9 hours ago, Market65 said:

Well, Thane Of Fife takes shape. I haven’t yet added on the extra parts, but hope to do so tomorrow. So here it is, with the weathering nearly finished - maybe a touch of black onto the driving wheels. But all trace of the horrid green is gone. I have redone, with transfers, the cabside numbers - they seemed just a bit too yellow to my eyes. Plates yet to be fitted, but I wanted to get this photo’ posted to show it in artificial light. I’ll try a photo’ tomorrow in daylight.

 

 

Best regards,

 

 Rob.

Hi

 

Looks very effective, did you put a Brunswick green wash onto the body?

 

Also the replacement cab side numbers are a big improvement much better than Hornby’s applied one’s, Inwas thinks of doing the same as I have stacks of Fox Transfers numbers. 

 

Regards

 

David

Edited March 5, 2021 by landscapes
Additional information

[atom3624]

That looks superb!

Great job.

 

Loving the green - was that a lens filter? !!

 

Joking aside, a big difference and shows just what a lovely model it is.

 

Al.

[Market65]

Thank you, David and Al. As I described earlier on I carefully brushed on several very thin coats of the Brunswick green paint, with the lining masked. On completion, the lining did not look as bad as it did originally, so I didn’t re line it. The numbers on the cabsides had to be replaced, since they just seem to be too yellow. I have replaced the crest, on the tender, on the fireman’s side, so that it is wrong, for the prototype. Which, of course, is now right for the model.

 

Today, I’ve got the cylinder drain cocks  - cut short, applied along with the brake rigging and front footsteps, and the AWS bang plate. So here’s a couple of photo’s, in natural light, indeed some sunlight. 
 

 

 

This, I think, is now the model is should have been on taking it out of the box.

 

Best regards,

 

 Rob.

 

[robmcg]

9 hours ago, Market65 said:

Thank you, David and Al. As I described earlier on I carefully brushed on several very thin coats of the Brunswick green paint, with the lining masked. On completion, the lining did not look as bad as it did originally, so I didn’t re line it. The numbers on the cabsides had to be replaced, since they just seem to be too yellow. I have replaced the crest, on the tender, on the fireman’s side, so that it is wrong, for the prototype. Which, of course, is now right for the model.

 

Today, I’ve got the cylinder drain cocks  - cut short, applied along with the brake rigging and front footsteps, and the AWS bang plate. So here’s a couple of photo’s, in natural light, indeed some sunlight. 
 

 

 

This, I think, is now the model is should have been on taking it out of the box.

 

Best regards,

 

 Rob.

 

 

Superb!   What a lovely model.   If only the factories in China could get that paint as good as that,  and the subdued lining is good too.

Edited March 5, 2021 by robmcg

[D9001]

On 04/03/2021 at 13:25, davidw said:

No it doesn't sound thick as there is a "family resemblance" with Thompson Pacifics, that could lead one to believe that they're very similar. The wheel base is very similar, but the A2/1s were derived from v2's, as V2 boilers were used. Landscapes who frequently posts on this thread has a PDK kitbuilt A2/1. And an A2/3. Cab layout, smoke deflectors and the layout of the s bend in the foot plate differ and so on. Apparently when DJH produced their Thompson kits the A2/1 was considered, along with the A2/2 and A2/3. But dismissed due to significant differences. Hornby I recall hearing came to the same conclusion. PDK do a  kit of the a2/1 if you want one. And Mick Bennet has converted a Bachmann peppercorn A2 to an A2/1 using Graeme King resin parts and Morgan Gilbert's etched valve gear. Will we ever see an A2/1 RTR? Well each member of the class is different from the other but who would have believed we'd have any RTR Thompson 18 months ago.

Hope that helps

Thanks for all the answers. Maybe niu might be interested in producing a new boiler and cab to fit to the A2/3 chassis....?

[Dominion]

I lined up models of the 3 Thompson pacifics being discussed. All from very different sources but it still shows how different they all look.

In front is my version of an A2/1, still unnamed and unnumbered, and missing its smoke deflectors. It uses Graeme King's resin castings, method, and Graeme and Simon Martin's inspiration with a Bachmann V2 body and A2 chassis.

Hornby's A2/2 in the middle.

The A2/3 is from a PDK kit, built by them some long while ago.

 

For the photo I lined up the leading driving wheels, and pistons. Perspective makes it difficult to compare but the A2/1 has a much shorter boiler as mentioned earlier in the thread and also shorter frames at the rear. The A2/2 is the longest of the 3. The 3 different cabs are very noticable too.

 

The valve gear on the A2/1 is a spare from Bachman's V2. I have a Morgan Gilbert-Graeme King etch made up on a different chassis for an A2/3 that I had in progress and it does look better. But both approaches work well.

The A2/1 is the crudest of the 3 models, but it was fun to do, and is fun to run.

Edited March 5, 2021 by Dominion

[Dominion]

It is easier to see the general assembly differences from above.

[Derails Models]

Invoice received for the first A2/3's. Expect them to be at your local model shop from Monday onwards...

[mattkimster]

31 minutes ago, Derails Models said:

Invoice received for the first A2/3's. Expect them to be at your local model shop from Monday onwards...

 

Exciting news! Based on the comments/feedback/solutions posted for the A2/2s on here, I've just taken the decision to jump off the fence and get an order in for 60523 Sun Castle.

 

I've a half-formed plan that it may eventually become 60517 Ocean Swell, as I believe this was a more frequent Scottish visitor...and I like the name! From a cursory look at pictures I can't see any obvious differences that would prevent this, but I'm by no means an expert so I hope I'm not missing something?

[Mark C]

Take a peek at Bure Valley Models for Sun Castle and Steady Aim...(now one less in stock of the former)...they have also become/are becoming an Accurascale retailer too (no attachment etc)...

 

Mark

[D9001]

10 hours ago, Mark C said:

Take a peek at Bure Valley Models for Sun Castle and Steady Aim...(now one less in stock of the former)...they have also become/are becoming an Accurascale retailer too (no attachment etc)...

 

Mark

Just ordered Steady Aim which will become Honeyway while my Sun Castle will become the later Steady AIM. 

[BMacdermott]

10 hours ago, Mark C said:

Take a peek at Bure Valley Models for Sun Castle and Steady Aim...(now one less in stock of the former)...they have also become/are becoming an Accurascale retailer too (no attachment etc)...

 

Mark

Hello Mark

 

I just had to make a query on my order with them and I'm told they will be in the shop on Monday. (Hornby that is.)

 

Brian

[Tony Wright]

On 04/03/2021 at 17:34, Keith Turbutt said:

The model of Steady Aim, with early emblem, also has a round dome steam collector further forward. It finished up with a streamlined collector further back on the boiler as modeled on Sun Castle with the later totem. I am sure TW could give us chapter and verse on this.

 

 

Good morning Keith,

 

Chapter and verse?

 

All the A2/3s eventually received Peppercorn Dia. 118 boilers (built for the A1s); that is carrying the streamlined dome further back than on the Thompson Dia. 117 boilers, which had a round dome on the second ring. Hornby's 60512 is correct for the loco's condition in the early-/mid-'50s, but not for later in its life. 

 

(60)500 and (60)511 were unique in having their boiler cladding originally in only four sections (60)511 only until its first boiler change). 60500 retained its unique cladding until the early '60s (getting a lipped chimney as well), until it then conformed to be the same as the rest for the last couple of years of its life. 

 

The following pictures might help...................

 

 

 

60500 in model form as it was in 1957/'58, still with boiler cladding (Dia. 117) in four sections, round dome, rimmed chimney and spoked tender wheels. 

 

I built this from a Crownline kit, and Ian Rathbone painted it. 

 

 

The real 60500 in the last year of its life; now with standard Dia.118 boiler, cladding in five sections, streamlined dome, lipped chimney and disc tender wheels. 

 

Now, 60523..................

 

 

This is the DJH kit I built for Hornby to see what a model A2/3 might look like, now painted by Geoff Haynes (I'd forgotten to fit the small steps adjacent to the deflectors). This is (I believe) how Hornby's 60523 will appear, with Dia. 118 boiler. 

 

The Thompson A2/1s keep on being mentioned. When I was assisting Hornby, the quartet came up, but, even though there is a lot of commonality between the A2/1s and the A2/3s, there are still too many differences to make the project economically viable.

 

 

This is my 45 year old Jamieson hand-cut kit A2/1 (all my own work). At first glance, it looks similar to an A2/3, but the boiler, firebox and cab are not the same. The whole loco is shorter and, though very similar, the smoke deflectors aren't the same either - the horizontal part of the handrails is higher up, as they are on the boiler. 60508 was unique in not having those small footplate steps. 

 

Though the bogie and chassis (up to the rear driver) from Hornby's A2/3 could be used (and the tender for 60508/9/10), the rest would have to be a completely new set of mouldings. Not viable? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

 

[rembrow]

11 hours ago, Mark C said:

Take a peek at Bure Valley Models for Sun Castle and Steady Aim...(now one less in stock of the former)...they have also become/are becoming an Accurascale retailer too (no attachment etc)...

 

Mark

I checked my order with Bure Valley and they confirmed they have received the invoice from Hornby for Sun Castle and Steady Aim, with delivery to them expected for Monday. They have items of both available to order. No association, just a very satisfied customer of this jewel of a shop. In different times have regularly driven from south Suffolk to them at Aylsham , Norfolk, to buy items. Sun Castle is my first pre order from them.

Edited March 6, 2021 by rembrow