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Hornby A2/2 and A2/3 (2020 Range)


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41 minutes ago, atom3624 said:

Interesting information indeed.

It's definitely not a competition with highly expensive potential repair requirements but it would be interesting to pull out a dynamometer car and compare 6233, 30528, 60163 and when able 2007!!

 

I'm often seeing videos of MN's seemingly outperforming anything other locomotives are doing - perhaps it's an illusion, perhaps I've got rose tinted glasses on ...

 

There's no doubting Tornado's a fantastic iteration of a very good locomotive, and that much thought has gone into the production of a reiteration of the P2 in PoW.

 

Thanks for the informed response.

 

Al.

I must admit that my eyebrows rose when I learnt that 2007 was going to be based on the original 2001 rather than the version rebuilt to conform to the later P2s. I suggest having a look here – far better than my trying to do a précis.

https://www.p2steam.com/design-study/

 

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On 16/01/2021 at 10:00, rembrow said:

Yesterday's Kernow Models weekly newsletter advised that they are expecting the A2/2s by the end of the month. Presumably this is from Hornby trade info.

Not quite as imminent as I was lead to believe.

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28 minutes ago, Fredo said:

Does anyone think that Hornby may end up making a pre-BR version of the A2/2’s at some point? I guess they would need to alter the tooling to do so.

Hornby already stated that the tooling for the A2/2s was for the BR versuons only due to the boilers being different from the pre-BR versions of the 6 pacifics.

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21 hours ago, No Decorum said:

I must admit that my eyebrows rose when I learnt that 2007 was going to be based on the original 2001 rather than the version rebuilt to conform to the later P2s. I suggest having a look here – far better than my trying to do a précis.

https://www.p2steam.com/design-study/

 

The design study document is very interesting, particularly the development of the valve gear, drawing on the developments made to the Duke of Gloucester's gear and data of late steam American locos with rotary valve gear. Also that they could have used Walschaerts valve gear if the rotary design looked like it wasn't  working out. 

 

I hadn't realised how far 2007 had gone in its building. Going to be an amazing loco to see once it's out on the main line.  (And hopefully travel behind it one fine day).

 

In the way that Tornado is a development of the original A1 class 2007 looks like it's going to be a 2-8-2 version of Tornado with a further development of rotary valve gear. 

There also is the Doncaster P2 locomotive's 2001 replica which has had the frames cut so far.

 

Thanks to Headstock and everyone else who has provided info on a remarkable project,  great developments of the classic steam loco are still going on...

 

The video was linked to from the design study No Decorum referenced, the originally troublesome crank axle now redesigned and in a stronger material.

 

Just off to run my railroad Cock o' the North...

 

 

 

 

 

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Hi

I see that Hornby are proposing a third member of the A2/2 Class as R3977 Thompson Class A2/2 4-6-2 60502 "Earl Marischal in BR green estimated arrival date December 2021.

Regards

David

 

 

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I’ve now had a good read at volumes 2A and 6B of the Green Book. The story is complicated; illustrations were kindly provided by Andy York at the start of this thread (I’ve just noticed that they have gone) and the P2 thread. Illustrations are also available, including of the A2/3, in the Hornby catalogue and on the Hornby website. I’ve used the final part numbers for the various classes and concentrated on the boilers.


There were six P2s and there were six Diagram 106 boilers designed specifically for them. These boilers had a barrel based on the A3 but with a firebox enlarged to accommodate a grate of 50 ft² compared to the A3s’ 42½ ft². A seventh boiler, Diagram 108, was built, creating a spare for the class. It had a longer combustion chamber and could be distinguished by having hand holes on the firebox sides instead of the washout plugs of the 106. The 108 was fitted to 2006 Wolf of Badenoch when the latter was new. Wolf of Badenoch’s boiler was replaced with a 106; the 108 was repaired and fitted to 2002 Earl Marischal.


When the P2s were rebuilt to A2/2s, the boiler barrels were shortened by 1' 11¾" and reclassified as 106A and 108A. The 108A boiler was scrapped in 1946, so need not concern us further.


For his A2/3s, Thompson designed the Diagram 117 boiler, based on the 106A, but with hand holes instead of washout plugs. The first two (500 Edward Thompson and 511 Airborne) had four boiler cladding plates with a round dome far forward, on the join between the second and third plates from the front. From 512 Steady Aim there were five cladding plates, with the front two of similar width and the dome still on the join between them. (Hornby has caught this very well and I confess that I hadn’t noticed the difference between 500 Edward Thompson and 514 Chamossaire until I did my reading.)


Thompson retired and Peppercorn set about redesigning the A2/3 to produce his A2. As regards boilers, he produced the Diagram 118. Externally, he retained the five cladding plates but, as the forward position of the dome had caused trouble, Peppercorn reverted to the streamlined dome placed further back. No spare Diagram 117 boilers were built but the 117s and 118s were interchangeable and were freely interchanged. (Again, Hornby had caught this nicely with A2/3 60523 Sun Castle with a Diagram 118 boiler.) Curiously, when a Diagram 117 boiler was fitted, a streamlined dome cover was sometimes used but placed further forward to cover the dome, which remained round. When this was done, the Green Book states that the streamlined dome cover was taller to cover the round dome.


With the only spare boiler scrapped, the A2/2s were spending far too long out of service awaiting repair of the boiler, so it was decided to fit them with Diagram 118s for which they had to be slightly altered. There were plenty of 118s; spares had been built and they were fitted to the Peppercorn A1s as well.


Turning at last to the Hornby models, the artwork for 60501 Cock o’ the North correctly shows a 118 boiler. It was rebuilt in 1944 with a 106A boiler and received a 118 boiler in 1952. With a cycling lion on the tender, it could, I think, have been depicted with either a 106A or a 118.  Of concern, Hatton’s shows an illustration of what appears to be a decorated model with a 117 boiler.


The artwork for 60505 Thane of Fife correctly depicts it with a 117 boiler but the streamlined dome cover doesn’t look taller. If Hornby picks this up, it will be very impressive attention to detail. The catalogue states that the boiler is a Diagram 107 – the A4 boiler. This is at odds with the Green Book and I can only suppose that the compiler of the catalogue is as confused as I am. Again, it’s concerning that Hatton’s shows an illustration of what appears to be a decorated model with a 118 boiler. 60505 Thane of Fife had Diagram 118 boilers up until September 1957, when a Diagram 117 was fitted. The model has a ferret and dartboard on the tender, which would have been applied at the repaint, so, whilst the artwork is right, the supposed model is wrong. It is to be hoped that the model was hand finished using the wrong moulding.


Finally, the artwork depicts 60502 Earl Marischal with a 117 boiler. That’s wrong – the only A2/2 to have a Diagram 117 boiler was Thane of Fife. Earl Marischal is new for 2021 – let’s hope that someone has picked the wrong artwork to renumber.

 

Apologies for being so long winded.

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Its worth adding that 60503 and 60504 always carried the dia. 106a boiler. As a result, those two engines can not be produced by Hornby with current tooling. The photo below shows 60504 fitted with the dia. 106a boiler. The biggest visual differences, not covered by the Hornby tooling are, the V fronted cab as on class V2 and A4, the four segmented boiler cladding, the slightly longer smokebox and the S curve of the running board is steeper and positioned further forwards, so that the corners of the firebox are not visible below the valance.

 

60503 Lord President at Haymarket Shed

 

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Well, it's one week before the end of the month, so I contacted Hatton's and asked where my order was / if there was any news of 60501.

 

The reply was .... no news - they did reply, but simply stating there's still no sign of any imminent arrival.

 

Let's hope it's a cover for a 'big announcement' but somehow, I just think it was a simple, straight answer - no news yet.

 

Al.

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Strange. Kernow said a little while back that they were expecting them around the 25th but that isn't a solid confirmed arrival date. Their site still displays 60505 as arriving in January with 60501 arriving 1st Quarter of 2021 for some reason. Hornby's website also appears to have shown the A2/2's and some of the A2/3's as having arrived into stock, shortly before showing both 60501 and 60505 as being out of stock on their site.  Let's hope we get some clarity on the current location of the models soon. 

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1 hour ago, atom3624 said:

I've just been told the W1 Hush Hush is due soon, the A2/2 not ....

I reckon that's incorrect - can anyone confirm?

 

Al.

 

If true it's completely at odds with Hornby itself and all the reputable retailers.

 

A2/2 sold out on pre-orders at several too...   I guess you'll have to make your own judgement on the source of thar rumour.

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2 hours ago, atom3624 said:

I've just been told the W1 Hush Hush is due soon, the A2/2 not ....

I reckon that's incorrect - can anyone confirm?

 

Al.

I’ve seen 2 different retailers say the A2 is due imminently, both very trusted and respected sources. Very much doubt they would get it wrong like that 

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The photo (of what seems to be the actual model) of Steady Aim on Hatton's site shows a serious misalignment between loco and tender footplate, as well as the associated drooping-cab syndrome. Chamossaire is less bad, but still has the cab at quite a jaunty angle.

 

I haven't read the whole thread here; has this been noted previously?     

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13 hours ago, atom3624 said:

I've just been told the W1 Hush Hush is due soon, the A2/2 not ....

I reckon that's incorrect - can anyone confirm?

 

Al.

From what I've seen. The W1's were pushed back to the middle of the year since the Rebuilt pair had a new nose that needed to be fitted. I assume they want the loco's to release together instead of having the original condition release first with the Rebuilts following later. 

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40 minutes ago, Crouchja32 said:

From what I've seen. The W1's were pushed back to the middle of the year since the Rebuilt pair had a new nose that needed to be fitted. I assume they want the loco's to release together instead of having the original condition release first with the Rebuilts following later. 

Hi 

 

Not sure exactly where I saw it but I did read that the W1 60700 was due last quarter of this year together with the additional A2/2 60502.

 

But that’s not definite.

 

Regards 

 

David

 

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4 hours ago, landscapes said:

Hi 

 

Not sure exactly where I saw it but I did read that the W1 60700 was due last quarter of this year together with the additional A2/2 60502.

 

But that’s not definite.

 

Regards 

 

David

 

First post on page 18 https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/150513-Hornby-w1-hush-hush/page/18/#comments

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11 hours ago, Daddyman said:

The photo (of what seems to be the actual model) of Steady Aim on Hatton's site shows a serious misalignment between loco and tender footplate, as well as the associated drooping-cab syndrome. Chamossaire is less bad, but still has the cab at quite a jaunty angle.

 

I haven't read the whole thread here; has this been noted previously?     

 

These were livery evaluation models I think, not production models. Pre-production assembled for general evaluation.

 

The A2/2 which Tony Wright has reviewed had less cab droop than these A2/3 on the Hattons site, but still wasn't perfect. It too was not a production model, but I think an evaluation/review sample, probably hand-assembled (aren't they all) by the factory in low numbers .

 

For production models, we still live in hope. :)  

 

I doubt the running plates and assembly of these models will be perfect. Might as well get the complaints started before the models arrive!  (groan)

 

I look forward to an A2/2 regardless.

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36 minutes ago, davidw said:

And the A2/3.....

 

You think I'm made of money?  If I bought each of this year's delectable offerings, I'd have to give up food...  mortgage the house and evict the cat...

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1 hour ago, robmcg said:

 

You think I'm made of money?  If I bought each of this year's delectable offerings, I'd have to give up food...  mortgage the house and evict the cat...

I've saved Birthday and Christmas money. Thank fully I've a W1 converted from a Hornby A4.

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10 hours ago, robmcg said:

 

You think I'm made of money?  If I bought each of this year's delectable offerings, I'd have to give up food...  mortgage the house and evict the cat...

Food? Mortgage? Cat? What are these strange concepts of which you speak? They are not known on my model railway.

Waiting for my A2/2.....

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