atom3624 Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 Or that they can amend their work to be more acceptable - cannot simply remove an agreed contract surely! Al. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted February 17, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 17, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, atom3624 said: Or that they can amend their work to be more acceptable - cannot simply remove an agreed contract surely! Al. In a perfect world maybe but how do you achieve that in a factory on the opposite side of the world ? Do we know this actually is an agreed contract ? Your reputation as a company depends upon the quality of your product and to continue jeopardising that with a supplier that falls short of acceptable standards may not be a luxury you can afford.Are there such things these days as a second chance ? Maybe.I for one will avoid any future Hornby purchase other than one order I already have for the W1 until I am convinced that failings such as these are not repeated and the provenance of the individual factory is available which means the code on the box is displayed. Edited February 17, 2021 by Ian Hargrave Amending text 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Sidelines Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 (edited) Contracts make interesting reading - as I know to my cost from my last two days work. Poor assembly might be outwardly visible but if the parts are not dimensionally correct then the issue might be down to design or even the tooling - now was the tooling provided by the Client (Hornby). I have noticed that a lot of Hornby's steam engines have very flimsy footplates. Again who decides that these delicate parts are fit for purpose. I love minefields. Ray Edited February 17, 2021 by Silver Sidelines 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCAR6015 Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 The management at the factory that produced this model appear to have at some time in the recent past joined the -S.N.G Appreciation Society 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Sidelines Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 3 hours ago, RCAR6015 said: S.N.G There are so many acronyms. Southern Natural Gas? So which one were you referring to? Ray 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toftwood Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 On 16/02/2021 at 12:09, 60027Merlin said: For those whose purchases are not up to standard they should write to Hornby in a business like, objective manner where possible attaching photographs of the poor aspects in the model(s). That way Hornby will have, what looks like, a good number of complaints to deal with from customers rather than just read comments in various Webs. They cannot ignore a great number of written comments from customers as many would also not be willing to purchase for future models as well. I have posted above about the state of my A2/2. Hornby have been in contact after some Facebook postings and they are going to replace with a new example. regards Pete 1 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Lamb Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 4 minutes ago, Toftwood said: I have posted above about the state of my A2/2. Hornby have been in contact after some Facebook postings and they are going to replace with a new example. regards Pete Fat lot of good that will be if it still has the tender insignia error and other design and build problems that seem to be common to the whole batch. Bernard 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black 5 Bear Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 36 minutes ago, Silver Sidelines said: There are so many acronyms. Southern Natural Gas? So which one were you referring to? Ray Sir Nigel Gresley by any chance ? 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tomlinson Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 On 16/02/2021 at 12:50, G-BOAF said: The very first batch of Bachmann A1s were recalled due to having under-powered motors. This was the early 2000s I think, maybe? I think you are correct, sometime around 2000. I took my two into Barwell in person, being "Aberdonian" and "North Eastern". There was a mountain of boxes of the things in the entrance hall, the like of which I'd never seen before, nor since. Top marks to Bachmann though, they came back with much better motors, and after tweeking the springing on the pony and bogie and some extra weight, pull extrememly well. John. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black 5 Bear Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 14 minutes ago, Bernard Lamb said: Fat lot of good that will be if it still has the tender insignia error and other design and build problems that seem to be common to the whole batch. Bernard Unfortunately, from what I've seen, the vast majority of A2/2s feature a defect of some sort. I doubt very much whether the replacement locos will be QC checked prior to despatch, so you could end up with another dog. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toftwood Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 38 minutes ago, Bernard Lamb said: Fat lot of good that will be if it still has the tender insignia error and other design and build problems that seem to be common to the whole batch. Bernard The Head of Brand no less has promised a 100% correct model. Pete 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toftwood Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 21 minutes ago, Black 5 Bear said: Unfortunately, from what I've seen, the vast majority of A2/2s feature a defect of some sort. I doubt very much whether the replacement locos will be QC checked prior to despatch, so you could end up with another dog. We shall see... Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted February 17, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 17, 2021 19 minutes ago, Black 5 Bear said: Unfortunately, from what I've seen, the vast majority of A2/2s feature a defect of some sort. I doubt very much whether the replacement locos will be QC checked prior to despatch, so you could end up with another dog. Actual images of the A2/2 out of the box are few in number. Of those currently online for sale,the only oneI have seen which doesn’t appear to exhibit a glaring fault is on the Kernow website . The Hobby Box of Faversham have 60505 on eBay with images minus its top lamp bracket for £155 plus p&p. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black 5 Bear Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 15 minutes ago, Toftwood said: We shall see... Pete Hope it works out for you.... 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black 5 Bear Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 10 minutes ago, Ian Hargrave said: Actual images of the A2/2 out of the box are few in number. Of those currently online for sale,the only oneI have seen which doesn’t appear to exhibit a glaring fault is on the Kernow website . The Hobby Box of Faversham have 60505 on eBay with images minus its top lamp bracket for £155 plus p&p. That would be the one they couldn't shift on their own website which was priced at £161.50. 4 ER modeller friends of mine have either T O F or the COTN variant. All have ridiculously bad build quality, coupled with warped running plates, misaligned front frames and various detached or missing detail. I won't even mention the paint job ! 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 1 hour ago, Toftwood said: The Head of Brand no less has promised a 100% correct model. Pete Hi Pete Good news and I hope you get a good one. This reminds me of the time the CEO of Audi UK promised me that if they could not repair my new A4 they would replace it - and they did. I got the same promise from the CEO of VW UK and they replaced my wife’s Polo. All this was done in a mutually respectful manner and with no hard feelings on either side. Both cars had serious issues that the dealers could not put right after multiple attempts. Kind regards Paddy 1 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
meatloaf Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 Sams Trains says in his news program tonight that Simon from Hornby got in touch with him following his review of the A2/2. He has had his model replaced by a better example 2 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toftwood Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 30 minutes ago, Paddy said: Hi Pete Good news and I hope you get a good one. This reminds me of the time the CEO of Audi UK promised me that if they could not repair my new A4 they would replace it - and they did. I got the same promise from the CEO of VW UK and they replaced my wife’s Polo. All this was done in a mutually respectful manner and with no hard feelings on either side. Both cars had serious issues that the dealers could not put right after multiple attempts. Kind regards Paddy Thanks, I don’t feel it’s Hornby’s fault as once the model has been signed off for production half way round the world, it’s down to the company production line and shoddy workmanship/product control. Hornby in U.K. can’t then check every box , they have to trust those in China. Unfortunately in this case that trust seems to be about to be broken. Pete 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 (edited) Looks to me that if you have a seriously faulty A2 Hornby may replace it. Via 'Head of Brand'. This normally would happen through the retailer, presumably, if replacements were available. Hornby may well be aware of returns or retailer feedback. edit; while writing this I missed the two previous posts. I'm still waiting for my two examples here in the antipodes and hope to do a comparison with a recently-acquired Bachmann A2 60534, which I photographed yesterday in straight natural window light and was immediately aware of four things the Hornby A2 does better; the front wheels, the driving wheel centres, the valve gear offset (wrong on the Bachmann), and the shallow detail on the rear truck on the Bachmann, great though the model is. and thankfully minimal cab droop. Bright boiler bands too.... here below is the Hattons shop image of R3830 60501 Am I bovvered? Nah... Edited February 17, 2021 by robmcg 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted February 17, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 17, 2021 (edited) 8 hours ago, robmcg said: Looks to me that if you have a seriously faulty A2 Hornby may replace it. Via 'Head of Brand'. This normally would happen through the retailer, presumably, if replacements were available. Hornby may well be aware of returns or retailer feedback. edit; while writing this I missed the two previous posts. I'm still waiting for my two examples here in the antipodes and hope to do a comparison with a recently-acquired Bachmann A2 60534, which I photographed yesterday in straight natural window light and was immediately aware of four things the Hornby A2 does better; the front wheels, the driving wheel centres, the valve gear offset (wrong on the Bachmann), and the shallow detail on the rear truck on the Bachmann, great though the model is. and thankfully minimal cab droop. Bright boiler bands too.... here below is the Hattons shop image of R3830 60501 Am I bovvered? Nah... Sorry Rob but there’s one area with maximum visual impact where Bachmann’s offering completely outshines it.At least Bachmann’s livery is a close representation of BR green. Am I bothered ? Very much so.Until I am reassured by the appearance of a better finish devoid of the reported appalling quality issues , I’m giving this one a wide berth. The presentation of the Bachmann model is in another league and IMHO should not stand as a comparison in any case.They are after all two different locomotive designs. If Hornby are giving sanctuary to the rejects,why no announcement on their website ? They can and should do better than this.I see no cause for rejoicing .Only a model that falls far short of what it could have been. de berth Edited February 18, 2021 by Ian Hargrave Correcting text errors 1 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WisTramwayMan Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 5 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said: Actual images of the A2/2 out of the box are few in number. Of those currently online for sale,the only oneI have seen which doesn’t appear to exhibit a glaring fault is on the Kernow website . The Hobby Box of Faversham have 60505 on eBay with images minus its top lamp bracket for £155 plus p&p. The photos of 60505 on the Kernow website currently show it as missing the lamp bracket on the top of the smokebox, plus missing the handrail on the right front of the tender...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 2 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said: Sorry Rob but there’s one area with maximum visual impact where Bachmann’s offering completely outshines it.At least Bachmann’s livery is a close representation of BR green. Am I bothered ? Very much so.Until I am reassured by the appearance of a better finish devoid of the reported appalling quality issues reported, I’m giving this one a wide berth. The presentation of the Bachmann model is in another league and IMHO should not stand as a comparison in any case.They are after all two different locomotive designs. If Hornby are giving sanctuary to the rejects,why no announcement on their website ? They can and should do better than this.I see no cause for rejoicing .Only a model that falls far short of what it could have been. de berth I'll reserve judgement until I see my Hornby models, one is pristine, one has been weathered by TMC. There is a lot of subjectivity in attitudes to paint colours and I haven't been overly impressed by some of the Hornby Kings and some Halls but with recent releases I haven't thought them as being at all bad, rather good in fact. Also what I have seen in photos of weathered A2s is moderately encouraging. As to assembly faults like lamp brackets falling out I shall deal with these things on their merits. I do not judge the plethora of complaints on RMweb and with Sams Trains to be be necessarily typical, but if shop owners said that the model was subject to many complaints I would put weight on that. The fact the Simon Kohler has become involved suggests that the matter is being taken seriously, a lot of money is involved, and I want Hornby to recover financially In addition, I think that getting a model of this standard of detail to market at under UKP200 is a very fine achievement. I agree the boiler bands are a bit too black. I await the clatter of two packages on my doorstep with pleasure. 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWR-fan Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 Many years ago when I was heavily into outdoors largescale modelling, I had the audacity to criticise the engineering on an American company's latest and greatest big loco. I have a lifetime in aviation engineering and offered some helpful hints as to how the loco chassis could be improved to improve the reliability of the drive. It seems that the wheels kept falling off on the model. Given that the loco weighed almost 15 - 20 kilograms I felt the method of retention designed in the model to mount the driving wheels was inadequate for the task. I reported my thoughts on the company's own sponsored forum. The president of the company in no uncertain terms over two emails advised me to cease and desist my criticisms or I would be sued for loss of income at the company as not one person had returned a loco to the company for warranty repairs. I advised the company president to read his own company sponsored forum and he would see numerous reports of failed drives and the steps taken by owners to repair their models. All the locomotives were being repaired rather than returned for warranty claims. Days later the company issued a statement advising anyone who had a failed drive to request a shipping return label to return the loco to the company for repair. Not long after I was the president's new best friend and he requested that I ship an example of one of the company's points (switches) so that he could send my modified example to China to show the engineers there what design changes were needed for future production. Several of the design changes I suggested were incorporated making for a smoother transition through the point. 8 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 You know it's not inconceivable that Hornby will offer replacement for faulty A2s. Retailers already do of course under trading consumer laws. Presuming there are enough replacements. Some may prefer refunds. Not sure how widespread the issues are. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted February 18, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 18, 2021 (edited) 6 hours ago, WisTramwayMan said: The photos of 60505 on the Kernow website currently show it as missing the lamp bracket on the top of the smokebox, plus missing the handrail on the right front of the tender...... Ah,I was looking at 60501...Just had a look at their 60505.So it does.Wake up at the back there in Camborne.Unusual for this most reliable of retailers. Not the best advertisement is it ? Says it all. Edited February 18, 2021 by Ian Hargrave Adding text 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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