New Hornby Rocket

[Rudititanic]

4 hours ago, Gibbo675 said:

Hi Paul,

 

I've had a good mooch around what is available and I'm impressed !

 

There is a chance that once I've got on with some other bits and bobs I shall be acquiring various items. One thing I have noted is that to build a coach requires two separate prints for the body and the chassis which ends up considerably more expensive than a locomotive print which is unusual.

 

Thanks for the tip.

 

Gibbo.

 

Hi Gibbo; thanks for the kind words on my models (& thank you PaulRhB for sharing the link).  Just so you know, the coaches were originally intended for kit-basked commercial chassis, with the 3D-printed one only created later after being requested.  Hope you might find something to add to your Era 1 collection though, and I'm always open to suggestions.

 

As for the Hornby 2020 Rocket, allowing for the couple of period errors (so technically depicting the 1979-2010 replica rather than the original) it looks a fantastic item.  I've produced Rocket in her rebuilt form (as ultimately preserved), so will be nice to have a chronology of engines.

[Jammy2305]

I ordered R3809 late last night from Kernow. Had to be done! 

[Steamport Southport]

10 minutes ago, Colin_McLeod said:

I understood that the two sets deliberately had different names, so not really an "own goal"

 

I wonder what name the other locomotive will have?

 

Take your pick from.

 

Arrow, Wildfire, Dart, Comet and Phoenix.

 

The next ones were bigger and named Northumbrian and North Star. Other locomotives were either 2-2-0s or 0-4-0s.

 

 

 

Jason

[eldomtom2]

37 minutes ago, Colin_McLeod said:

I understood that the two sets deliberately had different names, so not really an "own goal"

 

I wonder what name the other locomotive will have?

The own goal is in not giving the "Tri-ang" set the names of the Tri-ang coaches.

[Clearwater]

27 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Take your pick from.

 

Arrow, Wildfire, Dart, Comet and Phoenix.

 

The next ones were bigger and named Northumbrian and North Star. Other locomotives were either 2-2-0s or 0-4-0s.

 

 

 

Jason

 

Great effort by three kit manufacturers to get some product placement onto those coaches!  Presumably DJH and Brassmasters weren’t up for it? 

 

[Steamport Southport]

2 minutes ago, Clearwater said:

 

Great effort by three kit manufacturers to get some product placement onto those coaches!  Presumably DJH and Brassmasters weren’t up for it? 

 

 

They're the Rocket class locomotives. It wasn't a one off. How different they were when built though is debateable.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Liverpool_and_Manchester_Railway_locomotives

 

 

 

 

Jason

[JSpencer]

4 hours ago, truffy said:

 

Same loco model, coaches with different names, different packaging (one with a numbered certificate)

 

Both are 1:76. Not sure what you mean by "the original...and thats the one in the trix packaging" though.

 

In 1983 Hornby did a batch for Trix (Germany) as their catalogue number 1201.

 

In 1983, they also did a batch for France but under the Hornby brand as R771 (1450 sets produced). This was exactly the same as R796 (12400 sets produced)  except all the English text on the box was replaced by French text (I have a French set).

 

Coach names were always Times, Despatch and Experience. Be good to know what coach names these 2 sets will each use. I don't fancy duplicating my current ones.

(EDIT: Looks like Globe, Renown and Wellington in one set, while the other has Times, Despatch and Experience but which is which?)

 

Also I wonder if at some point they will do the open blue coaches? 

 

Edit 2: what will the couplings be? Some pics hint a form a of chain link.

 

Edited January 7, 2020 by JSpencer

[Dungrange]

1 hour ago, Rudititanic said:

As for the Hornby 2020 Rocket, allowing for the couple of period errors (so technically depicting the 1979-2010 replica rather than the original) it looks a fantastic item. 

 

Out of curiosity, what are the 'technical errors', by which I assume you mean the differences between the original locomotive and the 1979 replica?  I understand that the 1979 replica has a slightly shorter blastpipe than the original to clear one of the structures on the route (the track bed having been raised in the interim period), but are there other differences?

 

To be honest, I could argue that the 1979 replica would fit better with my other stock, so from my point of view, a model of the replica could be justified without the need for a pre-grouping layout.

[aaron3820]

I’m very much looking forward to my set (Triang one) arriving down under. In the meantime I reckon the original deserves a run!

 

[Jammy2305]

1 hour ago, JSpencer said:

Edit 2: what will the couplings be? Some pics hint a form a of chain link.

 

 

I noticed that too. It certainly looks interesting...

[Rudititanic]

10 hours ago, Dungrange said:

 

Out of curiosity, what are the 'technical errors', by which I assume you mean the differences between the original locomotive and the 1979 replica?  I understand that the 1979 replica has a slightly shorter blastpipe than the original to clear one of the structures on the route (the track bed having been raised in the interim period), but are there other differences?

 

To be honest, I could argue that the 1979 replica would fit better with my other stock, so from my point of view, a model of the replica could be justified without the need for a pre-grouping layout.

 

Rocket had many rebuilds over its working life, firstly because the technology was moving so fast (she was obsolete within months) and secondly because she was only ever designed to win the Rainhill Trials rather than be a commercial-operating design.  Consequently, as built for the Trials there was no steam dome as depicted on the model - this was only added around November 1830 when she was rebuilt after an accident.  This rebuild also included smokebox modifications, a shorter chimney (unlike the model, plus likely minus the mercurial gauge pipes depicted), and a water-jacked firebox back (aesthetically the same I expect though) amongst other things.  As an aside, it was after another serious accident in 1831 that she was modified into a pseudo-Northumbrian class with lowered cylinders as now preserved.  

 

Regarding her 1830 rebuilt form, the railway was short of engines at this time so Rocket might have taken some passenger trains (mostly actually working goods/ballast services), but these were unlikely to be premier 1st Class services, so ironically the coaches are also more replica-orientated.  This is especially so as I have been advised the replicas these are based on were themselves based of inaccurate drawings, so those in 1820 probably looked little like them.  They also apparently didn't have oil lamps.  

 

Lastly, somewhat pedantically, the regular crew wouldn't have worn top hats (unlike reenactors)!

 

This probably all sounds critical, but for most people the model depicts the engine & train as they imagine it, and it certainly looks the part nonetheless.  No model can be 100% accurate and I don't think the above detracts from what elsewise promises to be a lovely little item.  NB if interested in Rocket's design and developments I can recommend reading the archaeological report: M Bailey & P Glithero, The Engineering and History of Rocket: A Survey Report (the above details from pp.31-3).

[BernardTPM]

11 hours ago, Dungrange said:

To be honest, I could argue that the 1979 replica would fit better with my other stock

And with APT since both featured in the 'Rocket 150' event.

[GoingUnderground]

The use of the "Triang Railways" name/brand on the limited edition Rocket is fascinating. The name was lost to Rovex when Lines Bros collspsed in the early '70s, the rights to it being sold off separately to Rovex. 

 

Does anyone know if Hornby have bought the Trisng name back, or just obtained permision from the current owner to use it just for the limited edition rocket and for promotion of the centenary of Hornby?

[30801]

1 hour ago, GoingUnderground said:

Does anyone know if Hornby have bought the Trisng name back, or just obtained permision from the current owner to use it just for the limited edition rocket and for promotion of the centenary of Hornby?

 

Hornby is really just Triang using the Hornby name

[30801]

Just got a mail from Hattons giving a February delivery date for Rocket .

[Denbridge]

Just now, 30801 said:

 

Hornby is really just Triang using the Hornby name

Not really. The vast proportion of today's Hornby portfolio owes nothing to either Hornby Dublo or Triang. 

[JSpencer]

Anyone looking for layout ideas for the Rocket, these films might help:

 

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=our+hospitality&view=detail&mid=CBDEF10D8B92DC1E21CFCBDEF10D8B92DC1E21CF&FORM=VIRE

 

 

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=the+iron+mule&&view=detail&mid=F24FC83620AE52A99DBBF24FC83620AE52A99DBB&&FORM=VRDGAR&ru=%2Fvideos%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dthe%2Biron%2Bmule%26FORM%3DHDRSC3

Edited January 8, 2020 by JSpencer

[LB&SCR 337]

Anyone else wanna see Hornby do planet as they can use the same coaches I think

[MikeParkin65]

3 hours ago, BernardTPM said:

And with APT since both featured in the 'Rocket 150' event.

Theres an idea for a limited edition run - the 'Rocket 150 Collection' ,  Special editions of the APT, Rocket, 46229 Duchess of Hamilton, 850 Lord Nelson (Malachite of course) 5051 Drysllyn (?) Castle and yet another excuse to rollout the Black 5 as No 5000 plus good old Evening Star

[HonestTom]

3 hours ago, Rudititanic said:

 

Rocket had many rebuilds over its working life, firstly because the technology was moving so fast (she was obsolete within months) and secondly because she was only ever designed to win the Rainhill Trials rather than be a commercial-operating design.  Consequently, as built for the Trials there was no steam dome as depicted on the model - this was only added around November 1830 when she was rebuilt after an accident.  This rebuild also included smokebox modifications, a shorter chimney (unlike the model, plus likely minus the mercurial gauge pipes depicted), and a water-jacked firebox back (aesthetically the same I expect though) amongst other things.  As an aside, it was after another serious accident in 1831 that she was modified into a pseudo-Northumbrian class with lowered cylinders as now preserved.  

 

Regarding her 1830 rebuilt form, the railway was short of engines at this time so Rocket might have taken some passenger trains (mostly actually working goods/ballast services), but these were unlikely to be premier 1st Class services, so ironically the coaches are also more replica-orientated.  This is especially so as I have been advised the replicas these are based on were themselves based of inaccurate drawings, so those in 1820 probably looked little like them.  They also apparently didn't have oil lamps.  

 

Lastly, somewhat pedantically, the regular crew wouldn't have worn top hats (unlike reenactors)!

 

This probably all sounds critical, but for most people the model depicts the engine & train as they imagine it, and it certainly looks the part nonetheless.  No model can be 100% accurate and I don't think the above detracts from what elsewise promises to be a lovely little item.  NB if interested in Rocket's design and developments I can recommend reading the archaeological report: M Bailey & P Glithero, The Engineering and History of Rocket: A Survey Report (the above details from pp.31-3).

 

Personally I'm hoping they produce the variant fitted with Dundonald's rotary engine. To portray this brief period in the locomotive's history accurately, they should of course omit the motor.

[truffy]

21 minutes ago, JSpencer said:

Anyone looking for layout ideas for the Rocket, this film might help:

 

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=our+hospitality&view=detail&mid=CBDEF10D8B92DC1E21CFCBDEF10D8B92DC1E21CF&FORM=VIRE

 

Or, for those of a more attention-challenged disposition, a still from the same film:

 

Edited January 8, 2020 by truffy

[BernardTPM]

46 minutes ago, MikeParkin65 said:

Theres an idea for a limited edition run - the 'Rocket 150 Collection' ,  Special editions of the APT, Rocket, 46229 Duchess of Hamilton, 850 Lord Nelson (Malachite of course) 5051 Drysllyn (?) Castle and yet another excuse to rollout the Black 5 as No 5000 plus good old Evening Star

And 56 077 to push the APT set.

[GoingUnderground]

4 hours ago, Denbridge said:

Not really. The vast proportion of today's Hornby portfolio owes nothing to either Hornby Dublo or Triang. 

I hate to disagree, but it owes everything to Rovex Scale Models (a.k.a. Triang Railways) because it is Rovex renamed. Whilst the locos and mechanisms may be very different to those of Triang, that's hardly surprising as that was almost 50 years ago. Today's Hornby track uses exactly the same geometry as Triang Super 4 track. The rail may now be Code 100, and much more HO scale, with some new track sections in the range, notably 4th radius curves and curved points, but that's about all. Hornby still have at least two original Triang items from 1961 in their current 2020 range, still with their original Triang/Rovex part numbers, R.180 the brick viaduct, and R.189, the brick bridge. There may be others, but those are the two that spring to my mind. And, much maligned they may be, but the couplings are still based on, and compatible with, Triang's 1959 Tensionlok design.

[Butler Henderson]

1 hour ago, GoingUnderground said:

Today's Hornby track uses exactly the same geometry as Triang Super 4 track. The rail may now be Code 100, and much more HO scale, with some new track sections in the range, notably 4th radius curves and curved points, but that's about all.

And fundamentally is a slightly expanded Series 6 range of track that was introduced by Rovex (as Triang-Hornby) from 1970.

 

Found on Shapeways some open coaches

3rd class https://www.shapeways.com/product/NML89589G/00-scale-liverpool-manchester-railway-3rd-coach?optionId=68957432&li=marketplace

2nd class https://www.shapeways.com/product/3LSR4QQDN/00-scale-liverpool-manchester-railway-2nd-coach?optionId=68957380&li=marketplace

with a separate chassis  https://www.shapeways.com/product/3GX4GTUEZ/00-scale-liverpool-manchester-railway-chassis?optionId=70558584&li=marketplace

 

 

 

 

Edited January 8, 2020 by Butler Henderson

[No Decorum]

21 hours ago, aaron3820 said:

I’m very much looking forward to my set (Triang one) arriving down under. In the meantime I reckon the original deserves a run!

 

By and large, the new tooling looks better but the old water barrel looks waterproof whereas the new one looks leaky!