New Hornby Rocket

[Coppercap]

20 minutes ago, Robin Brasher said:

I attempted to run my 1982 version of the Rocket at the Wimborne club night.  It struggled with three coaches because the rear axle of the Rocket was so stiff that the wheels did not revolve. A couple of others have had problems with the Rocket due to the motor burning out.  I expect a lot of people who want to buy the 2020 version are hoping to replace their older versions. Let us hope that the new version runs better.

Did you lubricate your Rocket's axles, seeing how it hasn't been used for a long while? It's possibly dried up lube that's causing the stiff axle. Did you also check how free running the tender and coaches were? I have read that the proximity of the motor's magnet can cause the rear wheel to drag. Maybe a very thin plasticard washer behind each wheel may help, if there's clearance.

Edited January 16, 2020 by Coppercap

[MGR Hooper!]

From the KMRC facebook page

 

[Coppercap]

5 hours ago, MGR Hooper! said:

From the KMRC facebook page

 

As has been said elsewhere, this Triang Hornby set had the wrong coaches in it - the names on the actual coaches don't match what's printed on the box.

[BernardTPM]

Yes, ironically the 'standard' set has the Tri-ang names. Does look good though and there's the crew at the top of the box.

[Coppercap]

40 minutes ago, BernardTPM said:

Yes, ironically the 'standard' set has the Tri-ang names. Does look good though and there's the crew at the top of the box.

No, I don't think that's  the case. It's the display 'Triang Hornby' set that's shown that has got the coaches in it from the 'standard' set. The 'Triang Hornby' box clearly states that the coaches in it are 'Times', 'Despatch' and 'Experience'.

Edited January 17, 2020 by Coppercap

[guarded]

1 hour ago, Coppercap said:

As has been said elsewhere, this Triang Hornby set had the wrong coaches in it - the names on the actual coaches don't match what's printed on the box.

I read somewhere that the wrong coaches were put in the display box,it’s something they are aware of and it will be corrected by the time these are delivered.

                        More interestingly(to me at any rate!)the blurb mentions Rocket was originally released as just the loco,R.651.In the 40 plus years I have known of Triang Railways I have only ever seen R346 and 346C,I’ve never seen the locomotive boxed on its own.Does anybody know of any samples out there?

[Denbridge]

Just now, guarded said:

I read somewhere that the wrong coaches were put in the display box,it’s something they are aware of and it will be corrected by the time these are delivered.

                        More interestingly(to me at any rate!)the blurb mentions Rocket was originally released as just the loco,R.651.In the 40 plus years I have known of Triang Railways I have only ever seen R346 and 346C,I’ve never seen the locomotive boxed on its own.Does anybody know of any samples out there?

These are only pre productiin samples to show the models and packaging.

[Phil Parker]

I understand that the yellow livery was very short-lived on the prototype and replaced with green for service. I wonder if there is a market for a green Rocket?

Also, how easy would it be to move the cylinders to the later (lower) configuration?

[Compound2632]

15 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

I understand that the yellow livery was very short-lived on the prototype and replaced with green for service. I wonder if there is a market for a green Rocket?

Also, how easy would it be to move the cylinders to the later (lower) configuration?

 

The point has been made* that this set is a model of the a replica Rocket** and the LMS replica carriage of 1930. The LMS replica carriages differ from the contemporary illustrations of the originals in having longer, safer, steadier wheelbase.

 

*Apologies, I forget by whom.

**Which one? 1979?

[woodenhead]

21 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

I understand that the yellow livery was very short-lived on the prototype and replaced with green for service. I wonder if there is a market for a green Rocket?

Also, how easy would it be to move the cylinders to the later (lower) configuration?

I think Rocket is like Flying Scotsman - the money is in the classic livery - the one that appears in any promotional or descriptive pieces about Rainhill.

 

Move it forward a short period and who wants a model of Rocket on an engineering train because it's already been superseded by Northumbrian

[Phil Parker]

1 minute ago, woodenhead said:

Move it forward a short period and who wants a model of Rocket on an engineering train because it's already been superseded by Northumbrian

 

Me. I'd also like it in steampunk guise please. (Reader of my blog today will be rolling their eyes completely unsurprised).

[PaulRhB]

26 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

I understand that the yellow livery was very short-lived on the prototype and replaced with green for service. I wonder if there is a market for a green Rocket?

Also, how easy would it be to move the cylinders to the later (lower) configuration?

Rocket appears to have lost the yellow livery by August 1830 as it is noted that Isaac Boulton recalled her having a wooden tender with a “cask on it painted green”

On the opening day the focus was on the ‘improved Rocket’ design, Meteor, Comet, Dart & Arrow with near horizontal cylinders and larger wheels. 
All this from the NRM book They engineering & history of Rocket’

[PaulRhB]

It’s also interesting that by the time the L&M actually opened even the improved design had been superseded three times! 
Phoenix then Northumbrian and the more radical change to Planet which appears to be to put more weight on the driving wheels by putting them under the boiler at the firebox end. 

[Coppercap]

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

The point has been made* that this set is a model of the a replica Rocket** and the LMS replica carriage of 1930. The LMS replica carriages differ from the contemporary illustrations of the originals in having longer, safer, steadier wheelbase.

 

*Apologies, I forget by whom.

**Which one? 1979?

Interestingly, the trailing wheels on the 1979 replica have less spokes than the 1929 replicas, and their design is completely different. The new Rocket looks like the 1929 replicas in that respect.

[Compound2632]

So this set could be categorised as "Era 3"!

[truffy]

1 hour ago, Phil Parker said:

 (Reader of my blog today will be rolling their eyes completely unsurprised).

Oh come now, Phil, I think you’re being too modest. There must be more than one reader of your blog. How many family members can you round up?

[Phil Parker]

8 minutes ago, truffy said:

Oh come now, Phil, I think you’re being too modest. There must be more than one reader of your blog. How many family members can you round up?

 

They tell me it's bad enough having to listen to me - diving into the Internet is a relief not to be punctuated by my writing!

[Steamport Southport]

16 minutes ago, Coppercap said:

Interestingly, the trailing wheels on the 1979 replica have less spokes than the 1929 replicas, and their design is completely different. The new Rocket looks like the 1929 replicas in that respect.

 

According to at least one source the 1979 replica used parts including wheels from the LNWR replica. The one which was plinthed outside Clapham Museum.

 

Quote

but we do know that when M.G. Satow came to construct a working replica in 1975, he salvaged the metal components from the Clapham exhibit for use in his machine, including the frames (with modifications), trailing and tender wheelsets, upper chimney and ‘sundry other bits and pieces’. The wooden components had rotted away.

 

 

https://newbuildsteam.com/2016/11/12/museum-replicas/

 

 

 

Jason

[PaulRhB]

The original when reassembled for display at the Patent Office appears to have used wagon wheels that were later replaced with ones cast to more closely resemble the originals. Rocket was in bits at Robert Stephenson’s works so a fair amount of creativity was used in reassembling it by those who could remember it originally. The LNWR replica probably followed that wagon design as they probably didn’t know at that stage. 

Edited January 17, 2020 by PaulRhB

[Coppercap]

Searching images, it seems to be that the 1979 replica at first had the trailing wheels from the LNWR replica, but on it's later rebuild it had new trailing wheels as represented on the 1929 replicas and the new Hornby model. The real Rocket's trailing wheels are different again (but then, how much of it is 'original'?)

Edited January 17, 2020 by Coppercap

[PaulRhB]

If we count Rainhill as original condition and working life as modifications in service parts:-

Original parts

The main frame, the boiler supports, the boiler & firebox frontplate, both cylinders, (inverted when lowered), and the slide bars.

The footplate and reversing mechanism are thought to be original 

 

Original parts from modifications in service

Front end repair strengthening frame and bufferbeam, the main wheels, wheel bearings, cylinder brackets which also strengthened the rear frame and the smokebox which is thought to be the third fitted, (the chimney isn’t original)

 

The dome depicted on the model was a later addition so not correct for the Rainhill condition modelled but it was used on the replicas for the original reason for adding it to reduce priming. 

Edited January 17, 2020 by PaulRhB

[adb968008]

I might be completely out, but I recall decades ago someone saying some of the 1979 Rocket was using some J94 bits, the same J94 that was also used to provide bits to restore Jinty 7298.

Its a very old memory, so if anyone recalls it would be nice to have it confirmed.

 

Edited January 17, 2020 by adb968008

[Denbridge]

4 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

I might be completely out, but I recall decades ago someone saying some of the 1979 Rocket was using some J94 bits, the same J94 that was also used to provide bits to restore Jinty 7298.

 

 

I think you may be confusing Rocket with the Iron Duke replica. The latter was built using parts from 2 austerity saddle tanks.

[Gibbo675]

4 hours ago, Phil Parker said:

 

Me. I'd also like it in steampunk guise please. (Reader of my blog today will be rolling their eyes completely unsurprised).

Hi Phil,

 

I'd happily have a green Rocket and all sorts of other stuff from the 1815-1840 time period also.

 

The other thing is that I was under the impression that Rocket may well have been regarded somewhat Steampunk for its time. I would say that the locomotives of Trevithick, Newcomen and peers with their cog wheels even more so.

 

Gibbo.

[Steamport Southport]

1 hour ago, adb968008 said:

I might be completely out, but I recall decades ago someone saying some of the 1979 Rocket was using some J94 bits, the same J94 that was also used to provide bits to restore Jinty 7298.

Its a very old memory, so if anyone recalls it would be nice to have it confirmed.

 

 

Nope.

 

That was members of the LLPG - Liverpool Locomotive Preservation Group. Nothing to do with the NRM or Carnforth. It was one of the ones from Bickershaw.

 

Parts may have been used in the restoration of Hunslet 16"s Kinsley and Glasshoughton No4 though ISTR. I remember the wheels being about at some point and were going elsewhere to go under an Austerity. Many of those locomotives were all Trigger's Brooms.

 

 

However this was the one that had parts nicked by the NRM for Iron Duke. Another one was scrapped for the boiler and other parts (can't think of the number/name off hand). Spitfire rings a bell.

 

https://ribblesteam.org.uk/exhibits/steam/hunslet-3696-1950-respite/

 

 

 

Jason