New Hornby Rocket

[Coppercap]

26 minutes ago, Mirabile Visu said:

I've just received my Rocket, and stuff me, it's tiny!  It really is very, very small.  I hadn't realised just how dinky it was from watching the Hornby videos.  It seems very well built, and the barrel join is invisible when viewed from more than a foot away (at least with my eyes....)  The only fault was that the chimney crown had fallen off.  Easily reglued.

I can't run it as I need to put a DCC chip in, but looking at the size of the barrel, I think I'll leave it to the experts to pave the way.

Cheers,

Trevor (new member)

Have you never seen the real Rocket or the replica?   They are pretty tiny too! 

[JSpencer]

15 hours ago, Gibbo675 said:

Hi There,

 

You may wish to look at the staggering accuracy built into Babage's difference engine of 1822, started in 1819.

 

Clock makers and gun smiths of the day also worked to fine tolerances.

 

Gibbo.

 

Hi, That proves my point. Yep he designed his machine but the engineering and techniques were not yet there to make all the parts as economically and accurately as required.  In the same way that Einstein came up with gravity waves by 1920, but we could not actually detect them until quite recently. 

 

 

In 1823, the British government gave Babbage £1700 to start work on the project. Although Babbage's design was feasible, the metalworking techniques of the era could not economically make parts in the precision and quantity required. Thus the implementation proved to be much more expensive and doubtful of success than the government's initial estimate.

 

Clock makers - my father used to repair clocks from this period. It was easy for him to do so with his modern (1950s 1960s)  tools and training (proper apprenticeships they had back then). He found these devices to be crude and simplistic compared to what he could do and how fine he could make parts but he did acknowledge the skills needed to make them for the period of the time with the limited tools they had as their disposal. 

 

Guns - some were really accurate others not. A warship in the wooden era had a favourite gun, one which the gun layer had confidence in to sound the ranges he wished to fire at. The concept remained for many years even if salvos took over the sounding role once guns could be made accurate and consistent enough to do so.  

 

Rocket was closer to start of the industrial revolution, screw threads and rivet sizes were what ever the person making her fancied. We are still decades away from Whitworth and other standards. I remember someone asking once a friend of mine (now deceased) a screw thread size for a part in a water mill to replace a part in a working museum. He replied "they would have used whatever size they liked" but he could measure and turn up a replacement part.

 

We also stuff being really over engineered. A Watt steam engine could last 100s of years. The maths, experience and confidence were not yet there.  

 

For sure there were many fine craftsman capable of making really accurate parts but, more economically, many worked to a "that will do" standard. And - if it worked and did the job required - they were quite happy with it.

 

 

 

 

[Not Jeremy]

2 hours ago, Mirabile Visu said:

I've just received my Rocket, and stuff me, it's tiny!  It really is very, very small.  I hadn't realised just how dinky it was from watching the Hornby videos.  It seems very well built, and the barrel join is invisible when viewed from more than a foot away (at least with my eyes....)  The only fault was that the chimney crown had fallen off.  Easily reglued.

I can't run it as I need to put a DCC chip in, but looking at the size of the barrel, I think I'll leave it to the experts to pave the way.

Cheers,

Trevor (new member)

 

Brilliant, thanks for that info Trevor, I am looking forward to seeing mine when it turns up.

 

Hopefully someone might post a picture of the model, I guess the "clevers" will then find some other minor fault that they can bore the rest of us to death with.

 

I'm sorry, that was truly tetchy, apologies peace and love to all......

 

Not Jeremy

[bgman]

1 hour ago, Not Jeremy said:

I guess the "clevers" will then find some other minor fault that they can bore the rest of us to death with.

 

Totally agree !

[truffy]

1 hour ago, Not Jeremy said:

I guess the "clevers" will then find some other minor fault that they can bore the rest of us to death with.

 

Just gloss over the posts that don't interest you. That's what I do.

 

We cannot all be interested in everything, but there's nothing wrong with people expressing their opinions..

[Butler Henderson]

2 hours ago, Not Jeremy said:

 

Brilliant, thanks for that info Trevor, I am looking forward to seeing mine when it turns up.

 

Hopefully someone might post a picture of the model, I guess the "clevers" will then find some other minor fault that they can bore the rest of us to death with.

PIctures have been posted  - go back two pages.

[Trog]

6 hours ago, PaulRhB said:

........
and the ballast trucks that would be prototypical for it in original form too as it was used on construction trains pre and post opening. ...............................

https://www.shapeways.com/product/U82C62GL6/00-scale-ballast-truck?optionId=65658461&li=shops

 

 

Was just wondering what the Fishkind code was for those, ichthyosaur?

[royaloak]

On 12/02/2020 at 21:35, Butler Henderson said:

It is available to order at Gaugemaster for example. It is after all a standard release not limited in number and no doubt will be available at most if not all Hornby sellers not just the big box shifters who everyone has ordered from, although that includes the likes of Jamlam who are asking £219.99 for it. Gaugemaster are quoting £165 which includes free next day delivery which makes it cheaper than all those people have ordered from Hattons once postage is factored in.

All standard releases are now limited in number, they are produced as one batch and that is that, the days of thousands and thousands of the same model being produced year after year are long gone.

[Butler Henderson]

1 minute ago, royaloak said:

All standard releases are now limited in number, they are produced as one batch and that is that, the days of thousands and thousands of the same model being produced year after year are long gone.

Yes I know that, what I meant was it not as restricted in number as the Limited "Tri-ang" Edition. No one knows is exactly how many have/are being made of the standard release and if it is still in production whether the producton run is extended to cope with the quantum of dealer orders. There have been instances of popular models getting a re-run; there was a second batch of one of the West Countrys made a year or so back.

[BernardTPM]

23 minutes ago, Trog said:

 

Was just wondering what the Fishkind code was for those, ichthyosaur?

They're so early, they might be Trilobites. Especially if they were used on the Cambrian.

[royaloak]

1 minute ago, Butler Henderson said:

Yes I know that, what I meant was it not as restricted in number as the Limited "Tri-ang" Edition. No one knows is exactly how many have/are being made of the standard release and if it is still in production whether the producton run is extended to cope with the quantum of dealer orders. There have been instances of popular models getting a re-run; there was a second batch of one of the West Countrys made a year or so back.

I would hazard a guess that these have been a bit popular so a rerun would be a serious possibility, when would depend on what sort of mood Hornby are in.

[Gibbo675]

6 hours ago, JSpencer said:

 

Hi, That proves my point. Yep he designed his machine but the engineering and techniques were not yet there to make all the parts as economically and accurately as required.  In the same way that Einstein came up with gravity waves by 1920, but we could not actually detect them until quite recently. 

 

 

In 1823, the British government gave Babbage £1700 to start work on the project. Although Babbage's design was feasible, the metalworking techniques of the era could not economically make parts in the precision and quantity required. Thus the implementation proved to be much more expensive and doubtful of success than the government's initial estimate.

 

Clock makers - my father used to repair clocks from this period. It was easy for him to do so with his modern (1950s 1960s)  tools and training (proper apprenticeships they had back then). He found these devices to be crude and simplistic compared to what he could do and how fine he could make parts but he did acknowledge the skills needed to make them for the period of the time with the limited tools they had as their disposal. 

 

Guns - some were really accurate others not. A warship in the wooden era had a favourite gun, one which the gun layer had confidence in to sound the ranges he wished to fire at. The concept remained for many years even if salvos took over the sounding role once guns could be made accurate and consistent enough to do so.  

 

Rocket was closer to start of the industrial revolution, screw threads and rivet sizes were what ever the person making her fancied. We are still decades away from Whitworth and other standards. I remember someone asking once a friend of mine (now deceased) a screw thread size for a part in a water mill to replace a part in a working museum. He replied "they would have used whatever size they liked" but he could measure and turn up a replacement part.

 

We also stuff being really over engineered. A Watt steam engine could last 100s of years. The maths, experience and confidence were not yet there.  

 

For sure there were many fine craftsman capable of making really accurate parts but, more economically, many worked to a "that will do" standard. And - if it worked and did the job required - they were quite happy with it.

 

 

 

 

Dear J,

 

Many thanks for your informative reply.

 

Perhaps I should have at first told you that I spent twenty years at Riley and Sons working upon steam locomotives ( Planet to Flying Scotsman ) and three years at Cumbria Clocks ( Wells Cathedral to Big Ben ) which is the precise that I know less than nothing about what I say from almost a quarter century of first hand experience of such mechanisms, methods and craftsmanship.

 

I've even met with colleagues of Doran Swade.

 

Gibbo.

Edited February 17, 2020 by Gibbo675
Spelling

[Butler Henderson]

6 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

If I may make so bold, the rather slabby axleboxes let down the excellent bodywork a little.

I would think they can be built up, either with appropriate castings that most people have in the inevitable bits box or with plastic strip. Have ordered a 2nd class one.

[Rudititanic]

7 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

If I may make so bold, the rather slabby axleboxes let down the excellent bodywork a little.

 

They were a necessary evil alas between the minimum thickness needed for 3D-printed plastic and the need to clear the axles.  As with all my models, particularly in 00, they are intended foremost as scratch aids for modelmakers to modify or improve as they see fit.  The small size of the models also means the CAD image cruelly enlarges any issues, much like enlarging photographs.  Thanks for the compliment on the bodywork though.

[truffy]

1 hour ago, royaloak said:

would depend on what sort of mood Hornby are in.

Making money.

[Not Jeremy]

2 hours ago, Butler Henderson said:

PIctures have been posted  - go back two pages.

 

So they had, thank you for that. I missed it amongst all that whiter shade of yellow stuff - my canary has circles under his eyes....

 

What an utterly brilliant model it is too!

 

 

 

[JSpencer]

13 hours ago, Gibbo675 said:

Dear J,

 

Many thanks for your informative reply.

 

Perhaps I should have at first told you that I spent twenty years at Riley and Sons working upon steam locomotives ( Planet to Flying Scotsman ) and three years at Cumbria Clocks ( Wells Cathedral to Big Ben ) which is the precise that I know less than nothing about what I say from almost a quarter century of first hand experience of such mechanisms, methods and craftsmanship.

 

I've even met with colleagues of Doran Swade.

 

Gibbo.

 

Hi Gibbo,

 

Many thanks for the reply. I'm not belittling these craftsman skills in any way, it was amazing what they could achieve. It is certainly admirable. I've studied naval guns, armours and fire control systems, qualified engineer, and love the history of engineering. And other technologies that evolved around warships. If I take range finders, the accuracy, skills and tooling need to make and maintain a reliable range finder were not really there until 1900. Now they did develop devices before then (most depended on knowing the size of something of the other ship) and most of the theories of measuring range were there since ages. 

Armour plate is good example of material qualities evolution. Iron plates of 1830 are strength wise were quite variable up to 20-30% from one plate to the next while its about 2-3% in 1930 (WWII saw some slacking to in quality to 8%, because they needed armour fast and they could afford to through away large amounts of steel).

 

A steam engine was not made to the same tolerances as a modern day Honda, but equally it does not need to be either in to order to function perfectly. And it would probably seize up if it was.

I've seen - modern gun replicas - that comments are made that these guns could have used bigger charges are be more powerful than they were historically. But there are reasons why historically they did not. They obviously felt it would have been dangerous to do so, due to the greater variables in quality (material, manufacture, powder, bullet etc...) back then vis-à-vis today.

 

I still feel - and to be honest it is one reason I love these old machines - that they are quite rustic compared to today. But they functioned perfectly fine, they have their charm, they are robust and reliable and always a pleasure to watch. They also demonstrate how intelligent these people who made them were. Working within limit technical constraints of time using their skills to produce such marvels. They pushed themselves to the limits of possible back then. 

 

The people who rode behind Rocket marvelled at her and were happy to ride in the carriages of the time. Today people expect soft seats, air conditioning and food, expectations are now greater.

 

Rgds J.

 

 

 

[Wickham Green]

4 hours ago, JSpencer said:

 

.......... Today people expect soft seats, ..........

 

Wishful thinking there ! ................... you might expect soft seats then a 700 or 800 series turns up !

[Sir Hadyn]

Seen one run today. It's beautiful, smooth and quiet, wish I could afford one.

[Butler Henderson]

I'm assuming is a mistake on Antics web site - Next Warehouse Delivery:Apr 30

https://anticsonline.uk/N425/N2333_hornby-trains-2020-range/108532486_hornby-oo-gauge-r3810-stephensons-rocket-train-pack.html

[Steamport Southport]

2 hours ago, Butler Henderson said:

I'm assuming is a mistake on Antics web site - Next Warehouse Delivery:Apr 30

https://anticsonline.uk/N425/N2333_hornby-trains-2020-range/108532486_hornby-oo-gauge-r3810-stephensons-rocket-train-pack.html

 

Quite possibly correct for the "bog standard" version. I think the Triang Limited Editions are arriving first.

 

 

 

Jason

Edited February 19, 2020 by Steamport Southport
Missing word

[aaron3820]

Would anyone know when Hattons are getting their allocated Rockets in at all? Seeing all these photos is getting me all excited 

[Pre Grouping fan]

2 hours ago, aaron3820 said:

Would anyone know when Hattons are getting their allocated Rockets in at all? Seeing all these photos is getting me all excited 

Only hattons know that presumably, so they will arrive when they arrive

[Hroth]

Hattons seem to be expecting R3810 (the standard Rocket) sometime this month, Rails say they expect it by the first week in March. So it should be here soon!

 

 

Edited February 19, 2020 by Hroth
Got the R number back to front...

[Butler Henderson]

18 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

Quite possibly correct for the "bog standard" version. I think the Triang Limited Editions are arriving first.

Antics site does say  Apr 30

 

On ‎17‎/‎02‎/‎2020 at 12:36, Mirabile Visu said:

I can't run it as I need to put a DCC chip in, but looking at the size of the barrel, I think I'll leave it to the experts to pave the way.

Hornby show it with their cabled 6 pin in the barrel.  Other makers do cabled 6 pins but their might be an issue with the length of the cable if it longer than Hornbys (seems to be something that their is no detail on) -  examples

ESU 53664  https://www.dcctrainautomation.co.uk/esu-53664-lokpilot-nano-standard-dcc-6-pin-.html

Zimo MX617F https://www.agrmodelrailwaystore.co.uk/zimo-mx617f-dcc-decoder-6pin-on-wire

As an alternative suspect a 6 pin decoder with long pins might work with the pins bent through 180 degrees so that the decoder itself is above the socket.