Jump to content
 

New Hornby Rocket


CF MRC
 Share

Recommended Posts

4 hours ago, Butler Henderson said:

Makes sense the differing classes of coaches were painted different colours given of extent of illiteracy.

Not very scientific but a screen grab of the blue of the NRM coach in a photo seems to compare well with Vallejo Sky Blue.

Am I the only one thinking Northern Rail blue lol

Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, amwells said:

Received mine today and what a model! Yes, I’ve already managed to damage the wires between loco and tender and will fix them again in due course, but otherwise what a lovely set. would love to weight the front of the tender slightly, will investigate in due course!
 

Nice touch coming in a brown cardboard outer like old Triang locos. 

I also found that the front tender wheelset doesn't quite touch the rails. Could be the wires acting like a spring lifting the front up slightly. And might be what we were seeing with the early sample in the signal box video a few weeks ago. 

 

Being curious, I weighed the loco and tender, came out at 44.1 grams together and the coaches 17.9 grams each. 

  • Informative/Useful 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold
5 hours ago, Rudititanic said:

 

Glad you're pleased with the model & thanks for posting.  Would you mind my sharing your photo?

 

Help yourself to the photo :)

 

Bought the paint and wheels today, just need to clean the print. 
Hopefully my Rocket set will be here soon to go with it ;) 

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, PaulRhB said:

Help yourself to the photo :)

 

Bought the paint and wheels today, just need to clean the print. 
Hopefully my Rocket set will be here soon to go with it ;) 

 

Hi Paul

 

Yes, I had a phone call from Cheltenham Models yesterday to say the Red Pack Limited Edition is now in stock, but as I have ordered the Yellow Pack to, they said the Yellow Pack will be in by the end of this week, so they said they will ship them together, getting excited and can't wait to see them running...
 

Do we know what DCC Chips, I will need to fit inside them DCC wise...? and Is it still 8-pin or a 6-pin as there doesn't seem to be much room looking at the photos of it...? I may as well buy Two DCC Chips now so they all arrive together... Bonus, lol 

 

All coaches have different Names to, which is what I wanted more than anything... as this will be my oldest loco on my layout to run, lol .... I guess that applies to every layout with regards to the Rocket, nothing else older is there... lol, It's not my Era, but I just had to have one, or two... lol

 

Regards

Jamie

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Rocket needs a six pin decoder. Due to the size of the socket a decoder with pins attached won't fit. Other tiny Zimo decoders have too much wire in the harness. The only decoder that I can see fitting is R7150 Hornby. Its a tight fit, and the wires have to be bent at the point they are soldered to the plug and decoder. The decoder is a snug fit in the top of the barrel. However, it does run perfectly well, the only limitation is the lack of CV2 to determine the start speed step.

Link to post
Share on other sites

For those who are contemplating (or actually doing) third class carriages, I've got a small album on Flickr of one of the NRM's replicas. Hopefully it'll prove of some use to someone!

 

Obviously this is of a replica carriage, so there will be some more modern features hidden amongst it not present in the originals. As Hornby's model is made using a survey of the replica locomotive anyway, I feel that's most appropriate!

 

Replica Liverpool and Manchester Railway third class carriage at the NRM, York

 

https://flic.kr/s/aHsmLyP1Ju

 

Cheers

 

J

  • Like 8
  • Informative/Useful 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

I've found the picture of the scalloped carriages that I was referring to earlier:

image.png.e51b206f586e5319cb51cff1d1434a51.png

A.B. Clayton, Inaugural Journey of the Liverpool and Manchester Railway, c. 1830 Wikimedia Commons. See also a reproduction of the lithograph version and account of A.B. Clayton. Note that the painting shows the train running on the right; the lithograph is reversed. Those familiar with the topography (the bridge is over the Duke of Bridgewater's Canal) might be able to say which is correct but the process by which the lithograph is produced involves copying the artist's drawing onto stone, so the printed image is reversed. So either the artist draws a mirror image of the scene or the lithographer draws a reverse image or the image comes out wrong...

 

In any case, the proportions of the carriages are clearly wrong.

 

As to the Hornby carriages and indeed @Rudititanic's prints, these are models of the 1930 replicas - indeed the whole Hornby set is really a model of the 1930 centenary replica rather than an original L&M train. I've been trying to work out how many of these replica carriages there are, and where they are now. Googling throws up photos of Huskisson and Traveller at the NRM, or the replica Rocket, Traveller, and a second class also at the NRM. The were three of each built, according to an LMS postcard that shows Lion at the head of them in 1930.

Edited by Compound2632
Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you for the pictures of the open coach and the train. I had a ride behind the replica 'Rocket' in an open coach when it was running on a temporary track outside the Royal Albert Hall.

 

I have now plugged in the figures and couplings. I needed a torch to help me fit them and the model is very delicate. It looks delightful and the coaches have got seats inside. 

 

I did not receive a brown card cover for the red box but I bought it from the Swanage Station shop so perhaps the cardboard cover is for mail orders.

P1090704.JPG

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

I've found the picture of the scalloped carriages that I was referring to earlier:

image.png.e51b206f586e5319cb51cff1d1434a51.png

A.B. Clayton, Inaugural Journey of the Liverpool and Manchester Railway, c. 1930 Wikimedia Commons. See also a reproduction of the lithograph version and account of A.B. Clayton. Note that the painting shows the train running on the right; the lithograph is reversed. Those familiar with the topography (the bridge is over the Duke of Bridgewater's Canal) might be able to say which is correct but the process by which the lithograph is produced involves copying the artist's drawing onto stone, so the printed image is reversed. So either the artist draws a mirror image of the scene or the lithographer draws a reverse image or the image comes out wrong...

 

In any case, the proportions of the carriages are clearly wrong.

 

As to the Hornby carriages and indeed @Rudititanic's prints, these are models of the 1930 replicas - indeed the whole Hornby set is really a model of the 1930 centenary replica rather than an original L&M train. I've been trying to work out how many of these replica carriages there are, and where they are now. Googling throws up photos of Huskisson and Traveller at the NRM, or the replica Rocket, Traveller, and a second class also at the NRM. The were three of each built, according to an LMS postcard that shows Lion at the head of them in 1930.

Hi Stephen,

 

I wonder, does the NRM have any original engineering drawings from the late 1820's that shew types of carriages and wagons used ?

 

Very often these drawing were tinted to indicate the colours to be used when painting the finished item. I would think if any such drawings exist then they would be for more reliable than any art works that seem to display the social aspect of the times rather than the exact engineered details.

 

Gibbo.

Link to post
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

I've been trying to work out how many of these replica carriages there are, and where they are now.

 

When Liverpool Museum had their Transport Gallery at the Brownlow Hill William Brown Street site in the City Centre (admittedly a long, long time ago now!), Lion was displayed with one of the 2nd class opens and one of the 1st class carriages, though I can't remember the name on the 1st class carriage.

 

Regarding the lithograph, apart from the rather unsafe opens, I've always wondered what that sturdy, yet ominous sign by the bridge was about!

 

Edited by Hroth
korrekshun!
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, JaymzHatstand said:

For those who are contemplating (or actually doing) third class carriages, I've got a small album on Flickr of one of the NRM's replicasJ

Thought that has seats so is it not second class?

http://www.edgehillstation.co.uk/resources/second-class-replica-coach/

Edited by Butler Henderson
Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

As to the Hornby carriages and indeed @Rudititanic's prints, these are models of the 1930 replicas - indeed the whole Hornby set is really a model of the 1930 centenary replica rather than an original L&M train

 

Yes my designs are deliberately intended to mirror the rest of the set by following the 1930s replicas.  The irony is that none of these are right for the original engine/stock - there are subtle differences with Rocket (which rarely hauled passenger trains anyway), 3rd Class only came to the LMR c.1844 so I am reliably informed and they never had standing-only coaches.  Apparently the replicas are based on 1920s plans (no period ones existing) based on photographs of a model that was built based on recollection...  As a result even the 1st Class coaches (both replica and model) are largely incorrect!

  • Informative/Useful 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Folks,

 

I'm coming to the conclusion that the truth of the matter is that no one actually knows for sure what either the locomotives, carriages or wagons actually looked like let alone what particular shades of any given colour they could possibly have been.

 

I wonder if there is a helpline available for rivet counters to cope with such matters ? I fear there are some on the APT 2020 thread that may be in need of such a service and that is for an example of a train that I remember seeing often enough at Preston back in the day !

 

Cheer up chaps, its only toy trains after all.

 

Gibbo.

  • Like 3
  • Agree 5
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

My main source of information is the delightful book by Geoffrey Hill, The Worsdells: a Quaker Engineering Dynasty (Transport Publishing Company, 1991), Thomas Clarke Worsdell, grandfather of T.W. and Wilson of NER fame, having been the world's first railway carriage and wagon superintendent, responsible for the building of much of the L&M rolling stock at Crown Street, Liverpool. Hill states that his information is drawn from R.H.G. Thomas, The Liverpool and Manchester Railway (Batsford, 1980), so that's probably the place to go to for information on surviving documentation.

 

T.C. Worsdell, who was established as a road coach builder in Liverpool, was introduced to George Stephenson by James Cropper, a Quaker and L&M director. T.C. Worsdell and his eldest son Nathaniel met up with Stephenson for tea one day in 1828 and between them sketched out the first design for a railway carriage. Nathaniel remained in the service of the LNWR until 1882. He wrote some reminiscences of his career in 1880, in which he stated: "the first carriage that ever travelled between Manchester and Liverpool was built to that sketch, and I only regret that fifteen years ago a fire occurred in my office at Crewe, in which this original sketch was burnt".

  • Like 1
  • Informative/Useful 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium
24 minutes ago, Gibbo675 said:

I'm coming to the conclusion that the truth of the matter is that no one actually knows for sure what either the locomotives, carriages or wagons actually looked like let alone what particular shades of any given colour they could possibly have been.

 

 

But that doesn't stand in the way of making accurate models of the 1930 replicas!

  • Like 2
  • Agree 1
  • Funny 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium
1 hour ago, Hroth said:

 

 

 

Regarding the lithograph, apart from the rather unsafe opens, I've always wondered what that sturdy, yet ominous sign by the bridge was about!

 

"If your head explodes you could be due compensation.

Contact Grabbit & Runn, solicitors and start your claim now"

  • Funny 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

But that doesn't stand in the way of making accurate models of the 1930 replicas!

Hi Stephen,

 

You and I shall be banned at this rate !

 

It would seem that with such inflammatory comments you are attempting to steer the period of the topic in hand from Period 1 to Period 3. This may well have serious repercussions for the subject of which biscuit tin lid artwork we are going to argue over will be further mired into what is is and is not moot.

 

https://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/era-system

 

What kind of biscuits did they eat in 1829 anyway ?

 

Gibbo.

  • Friendly/supportive 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

Eras 7/8+. A model of the replica train is really rather more useful - it can be run up and down a convenient siding on a layout set in, say, the 1980s, with plausible justification. Just as I have the NRM Bachmann Midland Compound - in "as preserved" condition, so perfectly happy on my late 50s roundy-roundy at the head of a string of blood-and-custard Mk1s or Staniers.

Edited by Compound2632
Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that this is the only model train that you can run from pioneering days to the present day.  I did see the replica at the Bluebell Railway about 30 years ago.

 

Meanwhile I have been looking at the coaches. They are works of art and have got a detailed interior. I would prefer the option of a socket for normal Hornby couplings as the rope couplings are very delicate and they are slack whereas they should be taught. The roof is a very pale grey rather than white as on the replica. I think that this is more realistic as a white roof looks wrong to me.

 

I wonder if the figures and rope couplings will be available as spares. I think I will lose them one day.

 

I intended to put this picture in my last post but it will not reduce below 7mb for reasons which beyond me,

P1090705.JPG

  • Like 6
Link to post
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Hroth said:

 

When Liverpool Museum had their Transport Gallery at the Brownlow Hill site in the City Centre (admittedly a long, long time ago now!), Lion was displayed with one of the 2nd class opens and one of the 1st class carriages, though I can't remember the name on the 1st class carriage.

 

Regarding the lithograph, apart from the rather unsafe opens, I've always wondered what that sturdy, yet ominous sign by the bridge was about!

 

 

William Brown Street which is now the World Museum.

 

They are now in storage near Bootle along with Mersey Railway 0-6-4T Cecil Raikes and the MD&HB Avonside 0-6-0ST.

 

A First and a Third. Experience.

 

http://www.cs.rhrp.org.uk/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=5551

 

http://www.cs.rhrp.org.uk/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=5550

 

The other names are Traveller and Huskisson.

 

 

Jason

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium
6 hours ago, Gibbo675 said:

Hi Stephen,

 

You and I shall be banned at this rate !

 

It would seem that with such inflammatory comments you are attempting to steer the period of the topic in hand from Period 1 to Period 3. This may well have serious repercussions for the subject of which biscuit tin lid artwork we are going to argue over will be further mired into what is is and is not moot.

 

https://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/era-system

 

What kind of biscuits did they eat in 1829 anyway ?

 

Gibbo.

You think you two are in trouble.........I’m not even buying one :lol:

  • Funny 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

William Brown Street which is now the World Museum.

 

They are now in storage near Bootle along with Mersey Railway 0-6-4T Cecil Raikes and the MD&HB Avonside 0-6-0ST.

 

A First and a Third. Experience.

 

 

I meant William Brown Street, don't know how Brownlow Hill popped in!

 

I remember seeing the Avonside, and the Overhead coach, but not Cecil Raikes, which was rather too big and tatty!

 

As for the "World Museum", I find it a dismal place, not as fun and interesting as when they had everything there, and not spread out over the Liverpool half of Merseyside!

 

Edited by Hroth
Link to post
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Hroth said:

 

When Liverpool Museum had their Transport Gallery at the Brownlow Hill site in the City Centre (admittedly a long, long time ago now!), Lion was displayed with one of the 2nd class opens and one of the 1st class carriages, though I can't remember the name on the 1st class carriage.

 

Regarding the lithograph, apart from the rather unsafe opens, I've always wondered what that sturdy, yet ominous sign by the bridge was about!

 

It was 'Experience'

 

Mike Wiltshire

Lion.jpg.af6bfeadc2b7fbd329da7fa867426ab1.jpg

  • Like 3
  • Informative/Useful 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

22 hours ago, amwells said:

 

Nice touch coming in a brown cardboard outer like old Triang locos. 

 

10 hours ago, Robin Brasher said:

 

I did not receive a brown card cover for the red box but I bought it from the Swanage Station shop so perhaps the cardboard cover is for mail orders.

 

Many of the modern models have an outer card cover for dealer deliveries, it's not really part of the actual packaging as such and more often tends to be included for mail order items. The old Tri-ang 'slip cover' was rather similar and I suspect was quite often discarded by the dealer before the model left the shops - I've only got them for about 2/3rd of my Triang locos and that's after 30 years of trying to find them. Quite a few have grafitti on them such as scribbled about repairs or old prices.....

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...