New Hornby Rocket

[atom3624]

6 years before they win the league again, or just until they qualify for Europe?

 

[Robin Brasher]

Have any of our members made a Kitmaster or Airfix 1/76 scale 'Rocket'?  If so is it the same size as Hornby's new 'Rocket?

 

The Kitmaster 'Rocket' came out in April 1959 at a price of 4s 6d and was reissued by Airfix in October 1964. The Railway Modeller and Model Railway Constructor reviewed it in April 1959. I thought I made an Airfix 'Rocket' but I  cannot find it.  

 

According to Let's Stick Together by Stephen Knight page 13 "the 'Rocket' was such a delightful and diminutive model that most people looked favourably on it. although it was difficult to incorporate into a contemporary model scene."

 

I wonder if the Kitmaster model inspired Tri-ang to make a working model.

[WisTramwayMan]

12 hours ago, Andy Hayter said:

I think you are wrong Black Hat.  From what I have seen, if you purchase something from their second hand stock, it disappears from the website almost immediately*.  This means their stock system is working in real time - which is what I would expect from an organisation with their turn-over.

 

This in turn means they have taken more Rocket orders than they could guarantee from their known allocation - probably in the hope/expectation that they would get more because they are a major Hornby outlet.  No doubt in the past tis has happened.  Not this time.

 

I am afraid my opinion of Hattons has degraded over the last couple of years.  They did not inform customers that their Bachmann pre-orders would not be satisfied when they fell out with Bachmann.  This nearly left me without a model I had had on order for years.  Now it seems they have confirmed pre-orders beyond what they could guarantee.  Further by not warning customers that they might be on a waiting list for R3809, they have stopped customers from ordering R3810 as a second best - and this model now appears to be fully sold out at most major outlets.

 

A review of their sales practices and their customer communications would seem to be in order from my perspective.

 

*and I am usually making my purchases outside normal business hours.

Very briefly - because this doesn't directly concern Rocket - I can confirm that if you order new items from the Hattons website then the stock level updates immediately - order an item with less than 10, complete it, go back and re-check the level it will have already updated.

As concerns Bachmann, I had the same issue too. Enquiries to Hattons at the time as to what was happening was met by either being told it would be available later the same week or the following week. As everyone knows, it never was. Eventually I was advised by someone with knowledge of Hattons to switch my orders elsewhere, this was done apart from one special edition on order for a fair time that had sold out. By talking directly to Bachmann, however, they advised that further stock originally allocated to Hattons may become available elsewhere, and thanks to their advice I managed to obtain one.

Back to Rocket - very interested to see people's comments - seem to back up my preconceptions of what it would be, absolute tiny jewel but very fiddly to assemble, and fragile. Definitely a special days loco than one for everyday usage.

[Hroth]

I made one decades ago, its long vanished into the bin of History.  I do have an unopened Airfix one in yellow plastic (the crew look like Simpsons extras...) but if you want one to play with, Dapol do the kit, C046, in their inimitable grey plastic for about £8. I've been thinking of getting a couple to bodge a lowered cylinder version or two with smokebox and buffers...

 

[Nile]

Now it's quietened down a bit I'll post some photos of a coach, as many pages ago someone wanted to know how to access the interior.

After removing the two screws the body and chassis should separate.

 

The interior is held in place by four clips on the glazing part.

 

It can be removed by prizing the sides apart enough to release these clips.

[7APT7]

13 hours ago, The Black Hat said:

 

I think that's a bit harsh on Hattons. With such a model being made I can see it being incredibly popular and that Hattons will have had people rush them for orders. Add that software in computer systems can also see people register an order for something at a total Hattons were promised only to receive less. It could not be Hornby's fault. With these being high detail and spec any ones coming in and damaged would need to be returned and thus reduce Hattons total. That leaves them short for numbers promised.

Im not saying its Hornbys fault, or Hattons, but being a major retailer, having software that might take time to update, or by having issues with supply could all explain it. Sadly, its not ideal for those that find they have not made the list, but there are times now where batch production done to pre-order is causing issues with supplying demand. Hattons sound 66s have been more popular than they would expect and Hornby might have been caught out with the supply of Rocket. Perhaps runs of some times need to be increased, especially when a popular item for Hornby would be great at bringing in capital and paying down creditors. The problem then is knowing what will be popular and making more of it so that you don't have over supply.

That means that Hattons can't think they are invincible, but surely must be trying to strike a balance that is even harder for them given the higher volumes and supply they have to deal with.

 

 

Hi Agree for the most part The Black Hat

 

When it is an Hatton's own make or production run of an item, Class 66's, RHTT, YOB Crane still to be released, surely they are much closer to the required numbers, however, I guess they can only base that off pre-orders for the guaranteed numbers, but they have sold enough stock over time to understand what percentage on average over the counter or online orders are placed, without those who pre-order. Whatever percentage on top the counter order or online orders...is, excluding those who pre-order the item, they should be able to add those percetages together to come up with a fairy near to numbers they will sell, yes, I know they Class 66 they have failed to see just how many was going to order but even then, the pre-orders should have a guarantee due to pre-order, on the other hand, if you fail to pre-order, then that's no one else's fault other than your own by not pre-ordering one in the first place which would help Hatton's have a more accurate numbers of required items for sure or guarantee they will sell them.

 

When an ITEM comes into stock, lets say for example... They order 1200 Loco's and the 800 of them are on pre-order, as soon as the ITEM comes in to stock at Hattons. the 800 on pre-order should be kept separate to the bulk 1200 ordered first and foremost, thus guaranteeing that the 800 Pre-Ordered are safe and secure they will get the item in question. leaving the [1200 - 800 (Pre-Order) =] 400 to tom, Dick and Harry, who just order when in stock without pre-ordering, or walk in and buy over the counter.

 

Soon as the 400 are sold, unless a Pre-Order specifically cancels his or her order, only then that can be added to the 400 extra ordered. Surely selling 400 and Tom, Dick and Harry comes in and wants one Cash over the counter or Online, well sorry you are to late, you should have pre-ordered one, or else if I sell you the 5 you want, then that is 5 people on pre-order we have to be sent a very sad email... It is not Rocket Science (no Pun Intended), if out of the 5, we only have 2 left of the 400, well, Hattons can only sell you 2 of the 5 you want, as we are out of stock according to records.

 

The only disappointed Buyer are those who regrettably failed to order, and its totally out of order... lol to pinch one off Jack and Jill who have gone out of there way to plan ahead and pre-order one... 

 

Yes, I agree with insight you can not see breakages etc. within an Item ordered as that could apply to those on Pre-Order or Over the Counter Sale orders.

 

Regards

Jamie

[grandadbob]

6 hours ago, Derails Models said:

 

And my word did they sell quickly! All gone now folks, sorry!

 

And I believe I was lucky enough to secure the last one! Said he, hopefully. 

[Edwardian]

For me, the stars of this release are the coaches. They are really small, as comparison with a small (pre-1923 10-ton) open wagon shows ...

 

 

[Edwardian]

I photographed the coach next to a 10-ton because someone on Castle Aching had asked to see that comparison, but then I thought that, for many people, a more meaningful comparison would be with a later wagon, such as a RCH 1923 7-plank.  I'm not too well off for post-Grouping stock, but I realised that I'd recently found one in a 'goody bag', so here is a Hornby 12-ton mineral and a modern (well, for me) coach ....

 

 

Put a covered wagon into the mix, and the Rocket coach is dwarfed.

 

 

And the Pecket is not looking so small in such company:

 

[CF MRC]

Very useful photos Edwardian.  It would be really wonderful if someone (Hornby?) made a model of Lion to go with these coaches along with the open 2nds.  I appreciate that there are 3D prints available, but they are not quite in the same league as the Hornby models. 
 

Tim

Edited February 29, 2020 by CF MRC

[Edwardian]

A replica, and a replica of a replica ....

 

 

 

[Ouroborus]

14 hours ago, atom3624 said:

6 years before they win the league again, or just until they qualify for Europe?

 

 

The key word in this was "again"

[Derails Models]

15 hours ago, boxbrownie said:

And sold for the correct price 

 

Indeed! No 'on-demand' price fluctuation carried out here!

 

9 hours ago, grandadbob said:

 

And I believe I was lucky enough to secure the last one! Said he, hopefully. 

 

You actually got a number 7 due to two people ordering the last one at exactly the same time! But as we hold a few spares of new-tooling items for the unlikely event that any arrive damaged (especially with highly popular items like these), I have taken one of these and put it in the main allocation for you. But don't worry, we still have enough spares, so if there are any damages, we shouldn't have to disappoint anyone. :-)

[Hroth]

48 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

A replica, and a replica of a replica ....

 

 

 

 

"Times Traveller" eh?

 

Where's the Tardis?

 

[Compound2632]

1 minute ago, Hroth said:

 

"Times Traveller" eh?

 

Where's the Tardis?

 

 

Stuck around 1930, I believe.

[boxbrownie]

1 hour ago, Derails Models said:

 

 

 

You actually got a number 7 due to two people ordering the last one at exactly the same time! But as we hold a few spares of new-tooling items for the unlikely event that any arrive damaged (especially with highly popular items like these), I have taken one of these and put it in the main allocation for you. But don't worry, we still have enough spares, so if there are any damages, we shouldn't have to disappoint anyone. :-)

‘Blimey.......a business that cares, I bought a couple of things from you a few months ago after discovering your shop through this forum, because of good (great) price, but now I will definitely pop in more often to browse 

[Edwardian]

So, turning to Rocket itself ...

 

First I should say that it seems little short of a miracle that this little model works.

 

Except mine doesn't.

 

What the Hornby design team has evidently done is sat down with the factory and thrashed out the brief "how can we make the vital electrical connection between the locomotive and tender as unsatisfactory as possible?"

 

"Oh", says one "I know, let's have a permanent coupling that relies on soldered connections only"

 

"OK", says the team leader, "but how can we be confident that will fail?"

 

"What if we made them with the thinnest, most fragile wire possible, with very small solder points"

 

"Promising"

 

"What if all the wires are the same colour, do not appear to match the tender connections in any logical sequence and then we can include a diagram that is of no help in showing where they go"

 

"Or is positively misleading, hinting that they connect in the order they leave the locomotive.  Even if some large fat Western male can solder in such small spaces, he'll have no idea where the wires are supposed to go!"

 

"Brilliant!"

 

So, mine came with what appears to be two wires to the same point and one wire (the end of which didn't even look to have been stripped) connected to nothing.

 

Can some kind soul whose Rocket actually works please post a close up of the wires so I can work out where they go?

 

Many thanks in advance. 

[grandadbob]

2 hours ago, Derails Models said:

 

You actually got a number 7 due to two people ordering the last one at exactly the same time! But as we hold a few spares of new-tooling items for the unlikely event that any arrive damaged (especially with highly popular items like these), I have taken one of these and put it in the main allocation for you. But don't worry, we still have enough spares, so if there are any damages, we shouldn't have to disappoint anyone. :-)

 

 That's brilliant! Many thanks Dan.

 

36 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

‘Blimey.......a business that cares, I bought a couple of things from you a few months ago after discovering your shop through this forum, because of good (great) price, but now I will definitely pop in more often to browse 

 

Totally agree. I have made a couple of purchases in the past couple of years but I will now definitely be returning for more.

[Nile]

Mine was even worse, the loco-tender drawbar was missing, two wires detached from tender, one of those also detached from inside loco. I made a repair, but it's not for the faint hearted. This is the underside of my loco now.

 

The 'flexi' under the tender that the wires are soldered to can be removed. On it there are markings for M+, M- , L & R. As for working out what wire goes where, it's down to trial and error, or buzzing them out with a meter.

[CF MRC]

Interesting how the tender pick up is arranged. Presumably, two wires go from the engine pickups to the tender, then two wires come back to the motor after interfacing with the chippy thing in the barrel.  For DC operation it would really only need two between engine and tender.  Edwardian should take up 2mm scale, then he’ll really know about fine wires...
 

Tim

Edited February 29, 2020 by CF MRC

[Clearwater]

@Edwardian @Nile

 

Ive had the same problem.  Carefully extracted from box, put on track.  Nothing. nada. Tried brushes against the wheels.  Carefully flipped the loco into a inspection cradle and saw at least one wire doesn’t connect... two disappointed small boys and one disappointed adult.  Some careful work with iron awaits!

 

Four year old had gone and got his big jigs (careful with autocorrect there) one to do a side by side comparison..

 

 

 

[Edwardian]

Well, thanks to Nile, I've soldered the wires in the correct order.

 

It now makes a growly whizzing noise, but doesn't move.  So, thanks to another quality effort from Hornby, I've wasted a ton of money and, worse, much of my Saturday.

 

It's beyond my meagre skill to fix this dog of a model.

 

EDIT: So, what to do?

 

I am starting to loathe this bloody little yellow thing.  

 

A couple of the pick ups were not right, but I've corrected them and clearly it's picking up some juice from the track.  My soldering is nowhere near as good as Nile's (I just cannot see with anything like the clarity of his picture, even with reading glasses and a daylight lamp), so I accept there might be a bad connection or a short, but I cannot tell.

 

I find that wiper pick ups and these little strips they connect to are not that robust, so I find I tend to derange them when bodging and end up fitting my own pickups.  Usually there is more room to work!

 

Tim is surely correct concerning the function of the wires.  If I do not want to fit a decoder, then the blanking plug in the water barrel can presumably be thrown overboard and two wires would be redundant. 

 

If I knew which two wires to keep, presumably I could simply discard the strip under the tender, too, and replace with my own gapped PCB and solder a wire and phosphor bronze pick up wire to each side; that way I'd know where the electricity was going. 

Edited February 29, 2020 by Edwardian

[Ian Hargrave]

Hornby QC strikes again.Flagship Centenary model etc....Wonder just how many returns to date.To think that feelings of having to be bereft of one have led to near meltdown on this forum..

 

    Far too minutely fiddly for my eyes and fingers alas which is why I’m passing on this one anyway. I fear I made the correct judgement. Sorry for your disappointment gents both young and grown up.

 

 

[Nile]

QC is one thing, but the packaging doesn't help here either. It's far too easy to damage an already delicate model whilst inserting or extracting it from that black foam. Handle with care.

[PaulRhB]

Yep mine won’t be going back in, it took several minutes to ease it and the bottom coach out. Fortunately mine runs silently and smoothly so hopefully those with damaged wiring and not working can send the loco back to be swapped but retain the special edition packaging and coaches. I’d call Hornby on Monday.