New Hornby Rocket

[Pete47401]

33 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

Surely, not fulfilling demand is extremely undesireable for all concerned - customer, retailer and commissioner; (Hornby, Bachmann, etc.).

 

I can only conclude that the latter companies' market research is woefully deficient, as this under-supply situation seems to be occurring more and more frequently.

 

I know that no-one wants to to end up with stock on shelves, but there seems to be a culture of over-caution when it comes to production batch commissioning.

 

John Isherwood.

 

I think people have been burned too many times by the "I'll wait until the price drops" gang.

 

And also by the "We badly need a new 61xx, but actually carry on running our old Airfix one when it comes" gang.

 

Understandable caution from both manufacturers and retailers, and even with market research it's not simple to predict.

 

So nice to get a "winner" and be able to run the prices up as far as they will go, to make up for all the "losers", even worth putting up with all the weak jokes about wallets and asking SWMBO....

[Pete47401]

30 minutes ago, darrel said:

If Hornby Hornby plan to make 1000 models and the pre orders exceed that by a large amount as would seem to be the case here why does Hornby not think "oh we should make more!" If they have 2000 pre orders from the public and the trade, then make 2000 and make more money. 

The NHS class 66 is a case in point where it was supposed to be limited to 500 models and ended up as a lot more. 

Do you find other sectors doing this, if I order a new phone I expect to get it not be told sorry we have sold them all so we are not going to make more. Do heinz stop making tomato ketchup because it is selling well? No it makes little sense. If a model is so popular that you have a greater demand than expected make more.

 

The difference with tomato ketchup is people will use it up and buy another one, but how many of my 61xx do they want? That's right, none of them because they have an Airfix one. And is it really over £100? And also "I work for the NHS can I get it cheap?" "No, and I'm not standing outside in the rain clapping my hands for you either". And so on and so forth ad infinitum.

[Steamport Southport]

11 minutes ago, Pete47401 said:

 

I think people have been burned too many times by the "I'll wait until the price drops" gang.

 

And also by the "We badly need a new 61xx, but actually carry on running our old Airfix one when it comes" gang.

 

Understandable caution from both manufacturers and retailers, and even with market research it's not simple to predict.

 

So nice to get a "winner" and be able to run the prices up as far as they will go, to make up for all the "losers", even worth putting up with all the weak jokes about wallets and asking SWMBO....

 

What's wrong with running the old Airfix 61XX? Perfectly good model which many of us will probably have several. Many will have been detailed to a very high standard. Some will be even better detailed than the new model. 

 

It's a fine model and if you think that people are suddenly going to ditch perfectly good models just because a new version comes along then I don't think you quite understand railway modelling. People don't tend to buy to replace, they buy to add to what they already have.

 

My new Hornby one will work alongside the eight others I've got Airfix/Mainline (some with Comet chassis) and Wills/SEF. But it's not replacing them.

 

Do you really think people are going to spend £100 to £200 a model to replace things they already have? Some people have more money than sense.

 

 

Gang? No idea what that's about....

[SHMD]

I thought the problem was a much reduced delivery of product, from China, than anyone was expecting.

With the rest to follow, (now it would seem), in a later batch, and not a problem with anyone selling more than they were expecting.

 

 

Kev.

[Butler Henderson]

45 minutes ago, darrel said:

If Hornby Hornby plan to make 1000 models and the pre orders exceed that by a large amount as would seem to be the case here why does Hornby not think "oh we should make more!" If they have 2000 pre orders from the public and the trade, then make 2000 and make more money. 

Available factory time  - presumably something got delayed in production for the extra NHS 66s but the value of those was significant along with the timing of the relaease.

[Pete47401]

27 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

What's wrong with running the old Airfix 61XX? Perfectly good model which many of us will probably have several. Many will have been detailed to a very high standard. Some will be even better detailed than the new model. 

 

It's a fine model and if you think that people are suddenly going to ditch perfectly good models just because a new version comes along then I don't think you quite understand railway modelling. People don't tend to buy to replace, they buy to add to what they already have.

 

My new Hornby one will work alongside the eight others I've got Airfix/Mainline (some with Comet chassis) and Wills/SEF. But it's not replacing them.

 

Do you really think people are going to spend £100 to £200 a model to replace things they already have? Some people have more money than sense.

 

 

Gang? No idea what that's about....

 

No people don't buy to replace, except for the ones that do.

 

"Gang" just refers to a group of people who have bigger eyes than bellies, not literally an organised crime syndicate who plot between themselves to fool Hornby into making unwanted models just so they can get them cheap. 

[PaulRhB]

21 minutes ago, SHMD said:

I thought the problem was a much reduced delivery of product, from China, than anyone was expecting.

With the rest to follow, (now it would seem), in a later batch, and not a problem with anyone selling more than they were expecting.

 

 

Kev.

According to the email quoted before the allocation is reduced and will be split into two batches. Somewhere the sums don’t add up and it appears at least two retailers are quoting reduced stock compared to the allocation they were offered, as mentioned above and in the email quoted, not for the first time. 

[Ouroborus]

Can't help but think this borders on being laughable (and I have one on order). 

 

We're told that if we really want model X, we must preorder (MIMO). 

 

Now preordering is not enough.

 

Looking carefully on the Hornby website (it's in the microdot in "Airfix"), you discover that Hornby will guarantee your order upon receipt of one arm and/or one leg at Margate. 

 

I've ordered a sushi knife from big A to make absolutely sure I get my Class 91.

[stewartingram]

I hope Amazon are not doing this as a pre-order!

[adb968008]

1 hour ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

What's wrong with running the old Airfix 61XX? Perfectly good model which many of us will probably have several. Many will have been detailed to a very high standard. Some will be even better detailed than the new model. 

 

It's a fine model and if you think that people are suddenly going to ditch perfectly good models just because a new version comes along then I don't think you quite understand railway modelling. People don't tend to buy to replace, they buy to add to what they already have.

 

My new Hornby one will work alongside the eight others I've got Airfix/Mainline (some with Comet chassis) and Wills/SEF. But it's not replacing them.

 

Do you really think people are going to spend £100 to £200 a model to replace things they already have? Some people have more money than sense.

 

 

Gang? No idea what that's about....

We have common ground !

To me there is way too much unnecessary duplication of tooling, anything post 1990, and a chassis upgrade of much of pre-1990 Far East made is perfectly fine.

[Pete47401]

Looks like Hornby don't understand railway modelling either then. 

[Phil Parker]

2 hours ago, darrel said:

If Hornby Hornby plan to make 1000 models and the pre orders exceed that by a large amount as would seem to be the case here why does Hornby not think "oh we should make more!" If they have 2000 pre orders from the public and the trade, then make 2000 and make more money. 

The NHS class 66 is a case in point where it was supposed to be limited to 500 models and ended up as a lot more. 

Do you find other sectors doing this, if I order a new phone I expect to get it not be told sorry we have sold them all so we are not going to make more. Do heinz stop making tomato ketchup because it is selling well? No it makes little sense. If a model is so popular that you have a greater demand than expected make more.

 

It depends when the production slot is booked. If that is before the preorder numbers are in then all you can do is make an educated guess at quality. Would anyone here have said without the benefit of hindsight that this coach would be a massive seller? Possibility one of the biggest of the year? It's certainly not one you'd want to be left with stock of, noone without a Rocket is likely to buy one after all.

 

Another batch means booking another slot in the future but then something else gets bumped. Anyone be willing to miss their APT  for another batch of these? 

 

The problem with all this is everyone's guess at what has happened here is nothing more than a guess. Unless you have the inside track at both Hornby and a couple of major retailers then you won't know all the details. If you do, you probably won't be telling. 

 

And yes, I'm disappointed I probably won't get my coach either. 

 

Of course there is another option. And it lives in Sheffield...

[Compound2632]

It would appear that pre-ordering can't guarantee that you'll get the model; rather, what you're doing is entering a free lottery where the winners pay for their prizes.

[adb968008]

If its a limited edition of 1000, then 1000 it is.

Limited Editions are nothing new.

 

Its just puzzling how it seems to be so far over subscribed, without any indication of being over subscribed until delivery is upon us.

 

Was that intentional, (marketing, demand sizing or killing Rails), or just plain no one with eyes on the ball ?

 

it is what it is and suspect there's going to be a few unhappy campers. But ideally there should be some PR / lessoned learnt, as this could damage confidence on others..

 

I mean whats the point of ordering at all, if you don't think your going to get it, or worse for example, you end up with one or two of the coronation coaches, or odd coaches from the APT, but miss out on the rest of the rake due to short orders..

 

Whats the use of two first class APT coaches or just a coronation buffet but missing the rest?  
If those coaches arrive like NoahsArk, 2 at a time over a year, you need co fidence that if you start building the rake in January you will have a rake by December..otherwise youve just wasted anything upto a grand betting on a Hornby stock lottery ticket and are left with a few useless coaches.

Edited November 18, 2020 by adb968008

[andyman7]

Good points made above, for me the key detail is in the terms of supply - Derails (who appear to have handled this very well - state that they expected their allocation to be reduced. Presumably the terms of supply allow for this. I guess what I am trying to understand is unless until the actual supply had been guaranteed, to what extent should pre-orders be taken? It's not quite a lottery because the first in the queue have a better chance than the last. For what it's worth I have a pre-order for one but no idea whether it will be fulfilled (I won't name the retailer because I'm not holding them accountable, what will be will be).

[adb968008]

2021 Hornby pre-order queue ?

 

 

[phil-b259]

3 hours ago, SHMD said:

I thought the problem was a much reduced delivery of product, from China, than anyone was expecting.

With the rest to follow, (now it would seem), in a later batch, and not a problem with anyone selling more than they were expecting.

 

 

Kev.

 

If it was simply a case of splitting the batch into two deliveries then there would be no need for the likes of derails, Hattons, etc cancelling pre-orders!

 

The fact they have done so makes it fairly clear that Hornby are not getting all the models the had ordered from China and as such everyone is getting less than expected.

 

But before anyone starts going off on a anti Hornby rant I would point out we have seen this before - Remember when Bachmann found they did not receive all the models of the C class number 592 they were forced to cancel some retailers orders meaning folk who had pre-ordered missed out.

 

In the current case I fully accept that with batch production in China, Hornby can't simply order 'another 1000 models' as was alluded to up thread - nether do I expect them to continually revise the numbers up as per 'Captain Tom Moore' What I would appreciate however is a commitment from Hornby to try and arrange a further batch as part of their 2021 range

 

[RyanN91]

I also was informed via email due to limited allocated stock that my original pre-order of two R40141 L&MR Open Third Class Carriages was cut to just one. it is a pity I guess. I really naively assumed that this was another of  how much demand for it would lead to the final production run. Although I am now more pleased that someone else will now also like me will receive one as well. I am thankful to have just one as it is better to have one than none  again also it is nice to know someone else will also have one on its way. But who knows maybe there will be a further batch produced! 

[adb968008]

How do you a repeat a limited edition of a unnumbered coach, in one livery with breaching the aspect of being a limited edition ?

They could change the livery, but then it wont fit.
Only way I can think of is in a set or another Triang box ?

hmm.

Edited November 19, 2020 by adb968008

[PaulRhB]

1 hour ago, adb968008 said:

How do you a repeat a limited edition of a unnumbered coach, in one livery with breaching the aspect of being a limited edition ?

One open & one closed coach and various other number, seating and minor decoration changes  

[Colin_McLeod]

9 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

nether do I expect them to continually revise the numbers up as per 'Captain Tom Moore'

 

Could it be that the Captain Tom Moore additional production has eaten into the availability of production of other items? 

[Roy Langridge]

8 hours ago, adb968008 said:

How do you a repeat a limited edition of a unnumbered coach, in one livery with breaching the aspect of being a limited edition ?

They could change the livery, but then it wont fit.
Only way I can think of is in a set or another Triang box ?

hmm.

 

Was it really a limited edition or where numbers just limited to 1,000? There is a significant difference in those two statements. I read it as the latter.

Roy

[Nile]

One can only hope.

 

[AY Mod]

It's probably sensible to regard it as an initial production run of a limited quantity. My understanding is that a delivery will be arriving before Christmas (where quantities have been restricted or cutback) with a further delivery after Christmas. If there is still a demand after that a further production run may be made.

[wainwright1]

I would imagine that as there has been such a good interest in this and that they are making only a relatively small quantity, another run is almost a certainty. And thinking ahead, these will almost certainly be produced again for the anniversaries in 2029/30, probably in quite large quantities..

 

All the best

Ray