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New Hornby Rocket

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3 hours ago, boxbrownie said:

Or you could always just score a couple of circles of plasticard for the same effect.


Won't disagree with that, just that cutting circles in plasticard that thin and scoring lines isn't everyones cup of tea. It'll never look as good as an etch that just needs a quick pass of yellow and a black wash maybe?

Anyway I'll test the etch theory once I get mine, if it's successful maybe RT can try it as a mass-produced detailing/improvement kit.

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3 hours ago, BernardTPM said:

An etch is the obvious way to do it, minimising the thickness. Now if the etches could be pre-painted in a matching yellow too that would be ideal.

Well I just suggested plasticard as a way to save money and not have to go through the effort of a supplier making a unique part.

 

At this scale and size I am sure thin plasticard with scored lines painted over would be fine, but hey ho........

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Does anybody know where to buy/ pre order one of the R3810 sets?

I've looked at all of the usual suspects and they're coming up as sold out on pre order and only giving the option to request a stock notification email.

Cheers.

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44 minutes ago, Rudititanic said:

If it is of interest, I could always look to super-detailing my 00 open 2nd and 3rd class coaches to go with this set for anyone who wants, including appropriate couplings to suit. 

Very much of interest :) 

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6 minutes ago, Ben C said:

Does anybody know where to buy/ pre order one of the R3810 sets?

I've looked at all of the usual suspects and they're coming up as sold out on pre order and only giving the option to request a stock notification email.

Cheers.

 

A quick look comes up with Colletts, Derails and Hampshire Models.

 

 

Jason

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On 17/01/2020 at 22:57, Coppercap said:

 

 

I was just pointing out the fact that the tracks were much closer together on the L&M then than modern tracks.

 

Indeed, I read once that the 'six foot' on the L&M was also 4' 8 1/2", to allow out-of-gauge loads to be pulled up the middle!

 

However as that would have required points with outside flangeways, I have my doubts....

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52 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

A quick look comes up with Colletts, Derails and Hampshire Models.

 

 

Jason

Thanks, will look at those in the morning and put my order in.

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9 hours ago, Ben C said:

Does anybody know where to buy/ pre order one of the R3810 sets?

I've looked at all of the usual suspects and they're coming up as sold out on pre order and only giving the option to request a stock notification email.

Cheers.


Try Arcadia in Shaw . Great shop , but maybe not so often thought of for mail order. 

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9 hours ago, Ben C said:

Does anybody know where to buy/ pre order one of the R3810 sets?

I've looked at all of the usual suspects and they're coming up as sold out on pre order and only giving the option to request a stock notification email.

Cheers.

Please see my PM.

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I enclose a picture of a model of the Rocket that my grandfather bought around 1955.  He told me to look after it but the back wheels came off and I lost the tender, which I think was dark green.  It looks like it is about 1/76 scale but the back to back measurement of the driving wheels is 20mm.  At the time I had no idea of the colour of the prototype. I wonder if the colours are prototypical for Rocket in its later years as I would have thought that a yellow model would sell better.

P1090561.JPG

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29 minutes ago, Robin Brasher said:

I enclose a picture of a model of the Rocket that my grandfather bought around 1955.  He told me to look after it but the back wheels came off and I lost the tender, which I think was dark green.  It looks like it is about 1/76 scale but the back to back measurement of the driving wheels is 20mm.  At the time I had no idea of the colour of the prototype. I wonder if the colours are prototypical for Rocket in its later years as I would have thought that a yellow model would sell better.

 

The real one is closer to that colour. It is in the Science Museum, London.

 

There has been some doubt as to whether this is the original Rocket (possibly a bit like Trigger's broom), but as an early loco, it was modified a few times, particularly the cylinders were moved to a position closer to horizontal.

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39 minutes ago, Robin Brasher said:

I enclose a picture of a model of the Rocket that my grandfather bought around 1955.  He told me to look after it but the back wheels came off and I lost the tender, which I think was dark green.  It looks like it is about 1/76 scale but the back to back measurement of the driving wheels is 20mm.  At the time I had no idea of the colour of the prototype. I wonder if the colours are prototypical for Rocket in its later years as I would have thought that a yellow model would sell better.

 

It's maybe S scale (1:64) - http://www.s-scale.org.uk/standards.htm.  Course scale standard back to back is stated as 0.781" (19.84 mm) - finer scale models would have a larger back to back (21.29 mm for the "Exact" standards).

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50 minutes ago, Robin Brasher said:

At the time I had no idea of the colour of the prototype. I wonder if the colours are prototypical for Rocket in its later years as I would have thought that a yellow model would sell better.

 

Dinky wasn't worried about colours - their Thunderbird 2 in metallic blue and Space 1999 Eagles in both blue and green spring to mind...

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24 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

The real one is closer to that colour. It is in the Science Museum, London.

 

There has been some doubt as to whether this is the original Rocket (possibly a bit like Trigger's broom), but as an early loco, it was modified a few times, particularly the cylinders were moved to a position closer to horizontal.

 

Wasn't that accusation made by some "expert" whose theory has since been debunked by the NRM.

 

ISTR the same expert that said that Lion was also not Lion and the Hetton Colliery locomotive was built much later than it was. Just revisionist nonsense.

 

 

Jason

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1 hour ago, Pete the Elaner said:

The real one is closer to that colour. It is in the Science Museum, London.

 

 

Not at the moment, it's not. Rocket is in the (National) Railway Museum in York (and it was previously in the Science and Industry Museum in Manchester).

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1 hour ago, Pete the Elaner said:

There has been some doubt as to whether this is the original Rocket (possibly a bit like Trigger's broom), but as an early loco, it was modified a few times, particularly the cylinders were moved to a position closer to horizontal.


The forensic investigation debunked that, original vs modifications listed in the post below earlier in the thread. 
They also removed most of the incorrect replica parts added for original display apart from the chimney

The later Rocket class already included the modifications so don’t have the tell tale strengthening brackets etc plus they had slightly larger wheels. Records of those prove Rocket can’t be another engine, just that it’s the heavily modified original. 
I’d considered a second set to repaint one as one of the Rocket-1.2‘s but looks like dropping the cylinders might be an issue without major work. 
 

Edited by PaulRhB
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So going off topic a bit but in 1830 what was a rocket. To me the name conjures up images af apollo 11 and fireworks and stuff but back then this stuff wasn't about so what was the engine named after ,what image did the name conjure up for the 1830's population?

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1 minute ago, Markwj said:

So going off topic a bit but in 1830 what was a rocket. To me the name conjures up images af apollo 11 and fireworks and stuff but back then this stuff wasn't about so what was the engine named after ,what image did the name conjure up for the 1830's population?

 

Rockets were an artillery item. Used in the Napoleonic Wars and in places like India.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congreve_rocket

 

They would have been very well known to the general public.

 

As an aside quite a few of the "navvies" on the L&MR were former soldiers from the Napoleonic Wars. Many of which were formerly employed by Joseph Williamson AKA "The Mole Of Edge Hill" who was an eccentric who built tunnels under Edge Hill.

 

 

 

Jason

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2 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Rockets were an artillery item. Used in the Napoleonic Wars and in places like India.

 

And, also, the fireworks named rockets were in use then. The firework and the weapon are, fundamentally, the same thing, just on a different scale. Both were well known in the early 19th century.

 

The English word "rocket" (in the sense of a firework or missile) comes from the Italian "rochetto", which literally means a bobbin but also refers, colloquially, to the cylindrical shape. A self-propelling cylindrical projectile was called a rocket as early as 1610.

 

It's probably more likely that that Rocket was named after the firework rather than the weapon. Advances in chemistry during the industrial revolution gave the ability to accurately control the colour of fireworks, making them a popular public display (much the same as now, in many respects). So, to the onlookers at the Rainhill trials, the name "Rocket" would probably have conjured up something that is both fast and attractive - which is precisely what Stephenson would have wanted.

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4 hours ago, Markwj said:

So going off topic a bit but in 1830 what was a rocket. To me the name conjures up images af apollo 11 and fireworks and stuff but back then this stuff wasn't about so what was the engine named after ,what image did the name conjure up for the 1830's population?

 

This is a good article on this very subject:

 

https://blog.scienceandindustrymuseum.org.uk/how-rocket-got-its-name/

 

CoY

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12 hours ago, MarkSG said:

 

And, also, the fireworks named rockets were in use then. The firework and the weapon are, fundamentally, the same thing, just on a different scale. Both were well known in the early 19th century.

 

The English word "rocket" (in the sense of a firework or missile) comes from the Italian "rochetto", which literally means a bobbin but also refers, colloquially, to the cylindrical shape. A self-propelling cylindrical projectile was called a rocket as early as 1610.

 

It's probably more likely that that Rocket was named after the firework rather than the weapon. Advances in chemistry during the industrial revolution gave the ability to accurately control the colour of fireworks, making them a popular public display (much the same as now, in many respects). So, to the onlookers at the Rainhill trials, the name "Rocket" would probably have conjured up something that is both fast and attractive - which is precisely what Stephenson would have wanted.

 

I didn't know about that word derivation. A locomotive called "Bobbin" doesn't quite conjure up the same image. Particularly given the connotation of the word "bobbins."

 

(note to self: build fictional locomotive, call it "Rochetto")

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1 hour ago, HonestTom said:

(note to self: build fictional locomotive, call it "Rochetto")

 

But don't call it "Rochetta" -  that, too, is Italian, but is the source of the other English word "rocket" - in this case, the salad plant!

 

In case anyone is wondering (and I'm sure someone is) why both the English words "rocket" come from Italian, but mean different things, it's because the things that the word is for both came to us via Italy. The plant is native to the Mediterranean, and was popular in Italy as a foodstuff as far back as the Romans. The projectile rocket dates back to medieval China, but its first use as a weapon in Europe was at the Battle of Chioggia, off the coast of Italy, in 1380. The combatants in the War of Chioggia, Venice and Genoa, were both major trading powers and it's likely that they acquired knowledge of rockets from their trading partners in the East.

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On 04/02/2020 at 10:23, Pete the Elaner said:

The real one is closer to that colour. It is in the Science Museum, London.

 

There has been some doubt as to whether this is the original Rocket (possibly a bit like Trigger's broom), but as an early loco, it was modified a few times, particularly the cylinders were moved to a position closer to horizontal.

The real one, now at the NRM is painted in an almost tar black, as were all the early locos at South Ken.

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