New Hornby Rocket

[adb968008]

Out of interest, what was the last loco made in a Triang Railways box ?

[guarded]

 

Edited February 24, 2020 by guarded

[Robin Brasher]

In reply to ADB's post I think that R661S Old Smokey 3F 0-6-0 was the last locomotive to have a Tri-ang box and it was made in 1965.  The original 'Rocket' was made from 1963 - 1969 so perhaps all the 'Rocket' models did not all have Tri-ang boxes.  

 

After 1965 I think that the quality of the Rovex models went down until the company had some competition from Airfix and Mainline about ten years later. I think that the competition caused Hornby to move to China.

 

[Butler Henderson]

In advance of the set received my 2nd Class Shapeways sourced body - went for the cheapest version as I have not had much luck with the ultra smooth Shapeways stuff as they IME are always quite brittle. The sanding sticks and rattle can primer filler awaits it.

 

 

[Colin_McLeod]

Now that you have experienced both, how does the cheap material compare with the ultra smooth?  

[Butler Henderson]

2 hours ago, Colin_McLeod said:

Now that you have experienced both, how does the cheap material compare with the ultra smooth?  

I'll update when I've tackled it - I tried to drill an item made from the clear ultra smooth and it partly shattered. The more obvious layering of the cheaper material ought to limit any wider impact should, for example, I decide to drill holes for door handles.

[andyman7]

7 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Out of interest, what was the last loco made in a Triang Railways box ?

 

6 hours ago, Robin Brasher said:

In reply to ADB's post I think that R661S Old Smokey 3F 0-6-0 was the last locomotive to have a Tri-ang box and it was made in 1965.  The original 'Rocket' was made from 1963 - 1969 so perhaps all the 'Rocket' models did not all have Tri-ang boxes.  

 

After 1965 I think that the quality of the Rovex models went down until the company had some competition from Airfix and Mainline about ten years later. I think that the competition caused Hornby to move to China.

The 'merger' (takeover) of Hornby Dublo by Triang was announced in May 1965 but there isn't really a definitive 'last' Triang item as the factory used a large variety of genetic coded boxes and there was considerable overlap in boxes. For example I have seen R753 E3001 in a Triang box even though it was released in the Triang Hornby era. The very last loco to feature the Triang Hornby name is actually the GWR 0-6-0PT released in 1972 - although the brand officially became Hornby Railways from January 1972 the tooling was already complete and the first versions have Triang-Hornby engraved on the body. Triang-Hornby boxes were being used until 1973.

The quality of Rovex models did not decline after 1965 but after 1971 the new owners of Rovex pushed for the models to be more 'attractive' to train set buyers hence the move to gloss varnishes for locos, bright nickel plated wheels and red rather than brick brown buildings. These all lent a rather toy-like appearance to the models but the actual quality of manufacture was no worse. After the advent of Mainline and Airfix in the late 1970s and then the almost total collapse of the model-railways-as-staple-childhood toys market in the early 1980s there was a push for greater fidelity with the models but it was indeed the move to China that allowed a step change in quality whilst maintaining prices (back then - Chinese inflation has eventually pushed these up to perhaps more realistic levels.....)

[GeoffBird]

Nice that Hornby are supplying a suitably dressed Driver and fireman.  Where can one obtain similarly dressed passengers and bystanders?

[Robin Brasher]

I have not found any 1/76 scale figures for George lV's reign but Langley Miniature Models make some Victorian figures at www.langleymodels.co.uk.  There may be some small firms that make 1/76 scale figures famous people on the train like William Huskisson and the Duke of Wellington.

 

Meanwhile I enclose a picture comparing the Hornby 1982 'Rocket' with the new one.  The new 'Rocket' ran much better than the old one and was very responsive to the controls.  I think that Hornby should put an upper age limit on its customers as it took me about 10 minutes to couple the first coach onto the tender. The coupling rope should be taught anyway.

 

At the Rainhill trials the Rocket did not have any brakes and the driver could stop the engine by putting it in reverse.  The guard on the last coach could apply a brake on the coach.  Joseph Lock, who drove the 'Rocket' when it ran over William Huskisson, went on to become the civil engineer of the LSWR and supervised the building of the line from Waterloo to Basingstoke.

[HonestTom]

24 minutes ago, GeoffBird said:

Nice that Hornby are supplying a suitably dressed Driver and fireman.  Where can one obtain similarly dressed passengers and bystanders?

 

You might look at Andrew Stadden's range. His Victorian figures, set 009, look reasonably close to the fashions of the 1830s (although female fashion of the time seems to have favoured puffy sleeves and larger bonnets).  Set 010 looks fairly close for working class women and railway staff of the era. You could also investigate wargaming figures, and the Dapol workmen set offers an alright starting point for working men.

[MarkSG]

Speaking of the couplings, has anyone made any attempt to replace them with proper chains, that hang loose at rest and then become taut when in motion? I know we've all been getting worked up about the join in the barrel, but the couplings are the thing that seems most obviously unrealistic in the photos and videos I've seen of the model so far.

[Phil Parker]

52 minutes ago, GeoffBird said:

Nice that Hornby are supplying a suitably dressed Driver and fireman.  Where can one obtain similarly dressed passengers and bystanders?

 

Modelu - https://www.modelu3d.co.uk/product-category/finescale-figures/ragged-victorians/

[Skinnylinny]

1 hour ago, GeoffBird said:

Nice that Hornby are supplying a suitably dressed Driver and fireman.  Where can one obtain similarly dressed passengers and bystanders?

Also of note: Preiser do a load of H0 Victorian figures - search on Google Images for "1/87 Preiser 1900" - while the fashion might be incorrect, it'll be a lot closer than modern figures in tracksuits(!), and the smaller scale means they'll probably fit better in the carriages. They also have the advantage of being pre-painted!

In unpainted figures, Modelu are producing a range of "Ragged Victorians" in 1850s condition, unpainted, but absolutely beautiful figures. https://www.modelu3d.co.uk/product-category/finescale-figures/ragged-victorians/ None seated that I could see but some excellent characters!

[Edit: Beaten by Phil on the Modelu ones!]

Edited February 25, 2020 by Skinnylinny

[Steamport Southport]

3 hours ago, Skinnylinny said:

Also of note: Preiser do a load of H0 Victorian figures - search on Google Images for "1/87 Preiser 1900" - while the fashion might be incorrect, it'll be a lot closer than modern figures in tracksuits(!), and the smaller scale means they'll probably fit better in the carriages. They also have the advantage of being pre-painted!

In unpainted figures, Modelu are producing a range of "Ragged Victorians" in 1850s condition, unpainted, but absolutely beautiful figures. https://www.modelu3d.co.uk/product-category/finescale-figures/ragged-victorians/ None seated that I could see but some excellent characters!

[Edit: Beaten by Phil on the Modelu ones!]

 

Not if you want it for the 1980s onwards....

 

 

 

 

Jason

[dibber25]

Speaking of 'period' figures, I've been looking for a Scotsman ( to suit the 'Outlander' period) preferably without bagpipes or a musket.  Langley comes closest but despite the fact that Preiser and Noch do all manner of really off-beat figures, they don't do a kilted man as far as I can find. Wargaming figures are generally too small (or too big) and quite crude. Trouble is, try putting 'Scotsman' and 'OO' into any search engine and you can imagine what you'll get!! (CJL)

[Compound2632]

7 hours ago, Robin Brasher said:

Joseph Lock .... went on to become the civil engineer of the LSWR and supervised the building of the line from Waterloo to Basingstoke.

 

 

One might say a bit more than that. Joseph Locke took over as engineer of the Grand Junction Railway when George Stephenson had turned out to be not quite up to the job, at least to the Board's satisfaction, and from that point did not look back. As engineer of the Lancaster and Carlisle and Caledonian Railways, he has a very significant proportion of the WCML to his credit. The London & Southampton was a bit of a side-show; he was called in to sort out somebody else's mess, which is why the line has some very short summit tunnels (and similarly the Manchester & Sheffield, inheriting Vignoles' notorious tunnel) - in contrast to Robert (London & Birmingham) and George (North Midland) Stephenson, he was averse to tunnels, having faith in the development of the steam locomotive - the classic Locke line has a gradient profile like the roof of a house.

 

His firm, Locke & Errington, in partnership with the contractor Thomas Brassey, built the Paris - Rouen Railway and other early lines in continental Europe. He was the greatest civil engineer of the railway age, putting even his friend Robert Stephenson in the shade.

Edited February 25, 2020 by Compound2632

[GNR Dave]

41 minutes ago, dibber25 said:

Speaking of 'period' figures, I've been looking for a Scotsman ( to suit the 'Outlander' period) preferably without bagpipes or a musket.  Langley comes closest but despite the fact that Preiser and Noch do all manner of really off-beat figures, they don't do a kilted man as far as I can find. Wargaming figures are generally too small (or too big) and quite crude. Trouble is, try putting 'Scotsman' and 'OO' into any search engine and you can imagine what you'll get!! (CJL)

 

Try searching for 1:72 highlander. You might have to do some alterations though.

[Brit70053]

A google search has revealed the Airfix Waterloo Highland infantry set included at least one Piper Figure in HO/ OO. I think the website was : Vintage Airfix.com or similar, so assume these may still be available to find and buy, but no idea about Prices.

 

Regards,

                John

 

Belated apologies, I really must try to read posts correctly before responding. The set may however include something useful for Dibber 25's needs, but I'll stop digging now!

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 25, 2020 by Brit70053
Misreading of earlier post

[MarkSG]

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

One might say a bit more than that. Joseph Locke took over as engineer of the Grand Junction Railway when George Stephenson had turned out to be not quite up to the job, at least to the Board's satisfaction, and from that point did not look back. As engineer of the Lancaster and Carlisle and Caledonian Railways, he has a very significant proportion of the WCML to his credit. The London & Southampton was a bit of a side-show; he was called in to sort out somebody else's mess, which is why the line has some very short summit tunnels (and similarly the Manchester & Sheffield, inheriting Vignoles' notorious tunnel) - in contrast to Robert (London & Birmingham) and George (North Midland) Stephenson, he was averse to tunnels, having faith in the development of the steam locomotive - the classic Locke line has a gradient profile like the roof of a house.

 

His firm, Locke & Errington, in partnership with the contractor Thomas Brassey, built the Paris - Rouen Railway and other early lines in continental Europe. He was the greatest civil engineer of the railway age, putting even his friend Robert Stephenson in the shade.

 

He's also responsible for Shap summit - Stephenson wanted to go the long way round, via the coast (on the route that does now exist, serving Whitehaven and the other coastal towns, but it would have been a distinctly suboptimal route for what later became the WCML), but the directors went with Locke's route.

 

It's seems a little odd that Locke is much less well known than his contemporaries the Stephensons and Isambard Kingdom Brunel. He is responsible for more of Britain's railway network than they were. But he was specifically a civil engineer; he built railways, not locomotives. He didn't invent anything or pioneer anything, he just just did an excellent job of constructing railways for other people's inventions and innovations to travel on. Brunel and the Stephensons built railways as well (although George Stephenson was nowhere near as good at it as Locke), but it's their locomotives and their innovations which they are primarily remembered for.

 

In fact, Locke's one genuine innovation, the use of continuous profile bullhead rail (rather than the fish-bellied rail preferred by the Stephensons) was, in retrospect, a side alley. Flat-bottom rail had already been introduced by Charles Vignoles, another early rail engineer, but Locke thought that by using bullhead he could turn it over and re-use it the other way up when the top got worn. As we now know (and as Locke himself discovered pretty quickly), that didn't work, but Locke's influence meant that bullhead rail became the norm for over a century.

[BernardTPM]

2 hours ago, dibber25 said:

Speaking of 'period' figures, I've been looking for a Scotsman ( to suit the 'Outlander' period) preferably without bagpipes or a musket.  Langley comes closest but despite the fact that Preiser and Noch do all manner of really off-beat figures, they don't do a kilted man as far as I can find. Wargaming figures are generally too small (or too big) and quite crude. Trouble is, try putting 'Scotsman' and 'OO' into any search engine and you can imagine what you'll get!! (CJL)

This set has some possibly useful figures, including the Iron Duke himself.

[James3353]

10 hours ago, MarkSG said:

Speaking of the couplings, has anyone made any attempt to replace them with proper chains, that hang loose at rest and then become taut when in motion? I know we've all been getting worked up about the join in the barrel, but the couplings are the thing that seems most obviously unrealistic in the photos and videos I've seen of the model so far.

Hi, I received my Rocket on Saturday, it is very small!  I opened the front flap and straightaway noting the M off Manchester was missing on one of the coaches and on another coach the centre step was absent, presumably broken off during packing. That was before it came out of the box! I contacted  the model shop and they contacted Hornby, apparently there are NO spare sets or spare parts anywhere, not even Hornby thought about saving one or two for unfortunate people like me who now has a non collectible Train pack.

Best of all Hornby  thought it would be decent to offer me a refund of £15.99!!!

So it appears to me that Hornby are only in it for the money with no thought to provide any customer service at all!

A warning to those still waiting for theirs  to arrive be very careful when removing it from the box as if it is damaged at all Hornby will be no help whatsoever.

Sadly I will be returning it for a full refund in the next few days unless anyone out there is interested in it.

[GoingUnderground]

On ‎24‎/‎02‎/‎2020 at 14:32, adb968008 said:

Out of interest, what was the last loco made in a Triang Railways box ?

I have R753, the AL1/Class 81 in Manufacturer's labelled Triang Railways boxes. The loco, which wasn't released until 1965 used the Dublo bodyshell, modified. But the boxes were standard sizes and labelled using adhesive labels. They  kept using the Triang Railways stock of boxes until they ran out and the Triang Hornby versions took over. We see the majority of Triang Hornby rolling stock in window boxes, but there are Triang Hornby branded versions of the non-window boxes.

 

But to answer your question, it might be the Baltic Tank. Vol 2 of Pat Hammond's book shows one in a Triang Railways box dating from December 1966. However, in Canada the Hornby name wasn't used until 1971. The logo was restyled in 1965, but they were still called Triang Railways. So it will be a loco for sale in Canada long after the old Triang packaging was used up on models for sale in the UK.

 

 

[Craigw]

"In fact, Locke's one genuine innovation, the use of continuous profile bullhead rail (rather than the fish-bellied rail preferred by the Stephensons) was, in retrospect, a side alley. Flat-bottom rail had already been introduced by Charles Vignoles, another early rail engineer, but Locke thought that by using bullhead he could turn it over and re-use it the other way up when the top got worn. As we now know (and as Locke himself discovered pretty quickly), that didn't work, but Locke's influence meant that bullhead rail became the norm for over a century."

 

It was double head rail that was intended to be turned over. This rail has the same profile on each side so that it could in theory be turned. Bullhead has the heavy (running side) profile on one side only

 

Regards,

 

Craig W

[GeoffBird]

21 hours ago, Skinnylinny said:

Also of note: Preiser do a load of H0 Victorian figures - search on Google Images for "1/87 Preiser 1900" - while the fashion might be incorrect, it'll be a lot closer than modern figures in tracksuits(!), and the smaller scale means they'll probably fit better in the carriages. They also have the advantage of being pre-painted!

In unpainted figures, Modelu are producing a range of "Ragged Victorians" in 1850s condition, unpainted, but absolutely beautiful figures. https://www.modelu3d.co.uk/product-category/finescale-figures/ragged-victorians/ None seated that I could see but some excellent characters!

[Edit: Beaten by Phil on the Modelu ones!]

Thanks for the advice.  I have bought four sets (1:87) directly from Preiser in Germany fior use on a diorama.  I have also bought some sitting figures.  Is it possible to take off the oach roof or body from the chassis to fit them nside?  If not, they will have to sit on a little bench.

[Pre Grouping fan]

54 minutes ago, GeoffBird said:

Thanks for the advice.  I have bought four sets (1:87) directly from Preiser in Germany fior use on a diorama.  I have also bought some sitting figures.  Is it possible to take off the oach roof or body from the chassis to fit them nside?  If not, they will have to sit on a little bench.

I'm pretty sure it is possible. 2 screws either side of the body in the middle. I did try myself but I think there must be clips as well but with the foot boards in the way it wasn't easy to get anything in to open the body outwards.