New Hornby Rocket

[PaulRhB]

33 minutes ago, Butler Henderson said:

Therein lies the big elephant in the room at Margate - the must make it out of plastic  attitude to parts that are easily broken; wonder how many Rockets which work will at some point have something broken on them - that vertical part next to the chimney look a prime suspect to me and how many coaches will lose their steps.

Ok so get it all cast in brass and add another 30% to the price. Or mould in a more resilient plastic like LGB use for handrails etc and none perfectly straight?

There are compromises to hit the price points, if you want toy like robustness then there’s the 1970-80 version but if you want a scale model this is the option  

[jcredfer]

1 hour ago, PaulRhB said:

Ok so get it all cast in brass and add another 30% to the price. Or mould in a more resilient plastic like LGB use for handrails etc and none perfectly straight?

There are compromises to hit the price points, if you want toy like robustness then there’s the 1970-80 version but if you want a scale model this is the option  

 

What precise comparison, it sums up the statement that a "picture is worth a thousand words".  I have appreciated and enjoyed, for a long time, how good the earlier model is, the picture shows the improvements between the two, very clearly.  Lovely idea, thanks, it makes me look forward to the 10 even more than before.

 

Julian

 

PS.  I hadn't realised we get more chimney, too.   

Edited February 29, 2020 by jcredfer
Spelling

[Coppercap]

Well, I have to say, I'm really quite pleased with mine.

Yes, it is difficult to remove from the foam packaging (and also the foam from the carton) - I was very careful and nothing got damaged, but you wouldn't want to go through this too many Times.

No wires are broken between Rocket and its tender, and upon initial inspection nothing looks to be missing from, or damaged on either engine or coaches.

Coupling up Rocket to the coaches does require good eyesight (and light!). There are two lengths of 'chain' couplings - a shorter one for between Rocket and the first coach, and two longer ones for between the coaches (two complete sets are provided). Tweezers help...

My Rocket runs very smoothly and quietly, but slips a teeny bit on startup, which I'd expect of such a little thing pulling even three very free-running four-wheelers, but is OK once under way (a bit like the real thing?).

All wheels on Rocket and its tender have pickups, but those on the trailing wheels of my Rocket dragged, causing the wheels to skid, which in turn sometimes made Rocket slip a little. I tweaked them so they don't touch the wheels - there's still six wheels picking up. Once it was run in for a while my Rocket will now run at a very slow speed - something like a 4mm scale slow march. 

The coach steps were a bit wonky, but I managed to gently tweak the lower steps on hangers so they at least lined up with each other and were vertical. One buffer was also a little bit wonky, and it came off without difficulty - easily superglued back on, straight.

A final close inspection of Rocket itself found one screw holding on one of the driving wheel keeper plates was missing - I've spoken to Derails, and they'll hopefully be on the case on Monday, and get Hornby to Despatch one to me. Yes, it may only be a tiny screw, but I think it's an important one! 

Well, despite the few minor issues, I'm happy. It's such a shame others haven't had the same Experience with what should really be a premium, albeit fragile, product.

 

 

[CF MRC]

I too had (have) the 3.5” Rocket.  It was fundamentally disappointing in the traction and road holding stakes.  All of that might have been improved by putting a central pivot on the rear axle, to give a three point suspension. A rigid four wheel chassis with single axle drive on nylon track could never have been a winner.   

Does the new Rocket have any rock on the rear axle?

 

Tim

[cctransuk]

2 hours ago, Edwardian said:

 

John. 

 

First, I re-attached a couple of wires.  Some would castigate a modeller for not trying that before sending it back, rather than criticise them for doing so. If you'd read my posts as carefully as I read the Hornby advisories, you'd know that I have not done anything that needs undoing.  I believe I've fixed a couple of fixable problems only to encounter a third that I probably should not tackle. 

 

Second, warranty or not, I am not concerned about losing my consumer rights where a product is manifestly unfit for purpose; I didn't break the damn thing and nothing I've done has made it worse. Quite the contrary.

 

Third, you misconstrued the warning notice, which was (a) a recommendation, not a warranty invalidation notice, and (b) specifically related to access to the internal mechanism, which I have decided not to attempt.

 

If someone has imprudently rushed to correct anything today, it wasn't me!

 

 

 

It comes down to this .....

 

if a product is faulty on receipt - which yours clearly was - and it is returned untouched, the retailer has no option but to provide a full refund.

 

If the faulty product is partially repaired by the recipient - no matter how competent or otherwise - and then the owner has cause to return it to the retailer, the owner runs the risk that the retailer may contend that the owner has invalidated the warranty by attempting to repair it. It will be difficult for the owner to prove that his / her interference did not cause the problem.

 

Remember, the purchaser's rights exist between him / her and the retailer - NOT with Hornby; (unless the item was purchased directly from Hornby).

 

I AM sympathetic - and, in the past, I have almost certainly compromised my consumer rights in exactly the same way; but I would not then come to RMweb to castigate Hornby when my position was entirely due to my own impatience.

 

I repeat - if a brand new item is faulty, return it to the retailer; even if this may entail not being able to obtain a replacement rather then a refund.

 

John Isherwood.

[Legend]

4 hours ago, Edwardian said:

So, here is the Triang Limited Edition Arm-and-a-Leg Stephenson's F*cket in all its non-operational glory.

 

As I say, the driving axle can be turned manually, without being prevented by the gears, so I suspect that they are not meshed, but I defer to those with greater expertise.  Here is what happens (or, rather doesn't happen), when power is applied to the track ...

 

 

 

 

 

 Yes mine made it faltering round the layout once then I could hear the motor but no movement . It is a gearing issue I think . Been in touch with Hornby , no reply yet. Rails much more forthcoming . Think I’ll return it there for repair under warranty. Disappointing . It looks great , just a shame it doesn’t work!

[PaulRhB]

Well the Newman Miniatures coach has joined the lineup, blue looks a bit dark in these photos. I chose a slightly darker blue that’s about halfway between the photos of the replica and this shot in reality. 
I like it and as no one knows for certain it’s staying that way

 

[Butler Henderson]

1 hour ago, PaulRhB said:

Ok so get it all cast in brass and add another 30% to the price. 

Other manufactures at around the same price point use metal components where appropriate - I have never found a plastic whistle on a Bachmann model for example. It would be less of a problem if Hornby made body parts available like Heljan do.

[robmcg]

47 minutes ago, Coppercap said:

Well, I have to say, I'm really quite pleased with mine.

Yes, it is difficult to remove from the foam packaging (and also the foam from the carton) - I was very careful and nothing got damaged, but you wouldn't want to go through this too many Times.

No wires are broken between Rocket and its tender, and upon initial inspection nothing looks to be missing from, or damaged on either engine or coaches.

Coupling up Rocket to the coaches does require good eyesight (and light!). There are two lengths of 'chain' couplings - a shorter one for between Rocket and the first coach, and two longer ones for between the coaches (two complete sets are provided). Tweezers help...

My Rocket runs very smoothly and quietly, but slips a teeny bit on startup, which I'd expect of such a little thing pulling even three very free-running four-wheelers, but is OK once under way (a bit like the real thing?).

All wheels on Rocket and its tender have pickups, but those on the trailing wheels of my Rocket dragged, causing the wheels to skid, which in turn sometimes made Rocket slip a little. I tweaked them so they don't touch the wheels - there's still six wheels picking up. Once it was run in for a while my Rocket will now run at a very slow speed - something like a 4mm scale slow march. 

The coach steps were a bit wonky, but I managed to gently tweak the lower steps on hangers so they at least lined up with each other and were vertical. One buffer was also a little bit wonky, and it came off without difficulty - easily superglued back on, straight.

A final close inspection of Rocket itself found one screw holding on one of the driving wheel keeper plates was missing - I've spoken to Derails, and they'll hopefully be on the case on Monday, and get Hornby to Despatch one to me. Yes, it may only be a tiny screw, but I think it's an important one! 

Well, despite the few minor issues, I'm happy. It's such a shame others haven't had the same Experience with what should really be a premium, albeit fragile, product.

 

 

 

Seems to me that R3809 is hard to remove from the packaging without damage, and if you are lucky and skilled you might succeed, and only by sheer luck would you have one which is undamaged and runs well.

 

It might not matter to some buyers but it does to me. And I'm sorry I find a need to straighten steps, replace a missing major fixing screw and repair a buffer, and tweak pickups, well, a bit too much for me, let alone needing good eyesight, light and tweezers to connect the four items together.

 

 

41 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

....

 

if a product is faulty on receipt - which yours clearly was - and it is returned untouched, the retailer has no option but to provide a full refund.

 

If the faulty product is partially repaired by the recipient - no matter how competent or otherwise - and then the owner has cause to return it to the retailer, the owner runs the risk that the retailer may contend that the owner has invalidated the warranty by attempting to repair it. It will be difficult for the owner to prove that his / her interference did not cause the problem.

 

 

Actually, in law the onus is on the seller to show that the buyer has made an item 'not fit for purpose' .  Edwardian did nothing to compromise the right to a full refund. End of. 

 

Just removing  this product from its packaging carefully would by your reasoning render it ineligible for a refund, if, as some, many or most have found it is improperly assembled.

 

It is up to a buyer to decide if they will accept the defects in any product, and all Hornby models, and most do. It is not a subject of dispute except where a seller can show fault on the part of the dissatisfied buyer/claimant.

 

The law favours the buyer, and it's tough on retailers when damage is by courier or is extremely minor or of unknown origin. But that is probably another thread in itself.

[Hroth]

1 hour ago, Coppercap said:

you wouldn't want to go through this too many Times

 

1 hour ago, Coppercap said:

get Hornby to Despatch one to me.

 

1 hour ago, Coppercap said:

had the same Experience

 

You've worked hard on that!   Have a banana!!!

 

[Coppercap]

Just now, Hroth said:

 

 

 

You've worked hard on that!   Have a banana!!!

 

 

As Capt. Mainwaring would say: "Ah, I was wondering who'd be the first to spot that one!" 

(It won't be quite so easy with R3810, but then I'm not getting one of those.. ).

[Edwardian]

I'm not sure that there is much need to have a debate about fiddly breakable detail.  I don't suppose this model is any more or less vulnerable than many modern models, and I don't recall anyone experiencing issues of this nature.  If we want the level of detail and refinement we have grown accustomed to - and no complaints on that score regarding the Hornby release - models will be delicate and require careful handling.  Not sure this release is a special case in that regard.

 

The key vulnerability is in the tender wiring; which I why i advocate special care when extracting the loco and why I think it would have been useful if customers had been alerted as to the best way to do this. 

 

My only problem, and admittedly it's a pretty fundamental one, is that the bloody thing doesn't run!

[Hroth]

4 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

The key vulnerability is in the tender wiring

 

In a way its a pity that the loco/tender electrical connection wasn't via one of those little white plugs, although I could forsee probems arising from that!

[maico]

Hornby have been using more die-cast zinc alloy on smaller models in recent times. I believe the J36, B12, Drummond 700 and perhaps Schools class have metal boilers. Other models have metal running boards.

 

[Georgeconna]

Well I popped into Cork to meet the Mates for a Modelling chat which happens every Month in the Local Model Shop followed by a few nice creamy pints of Beamish afterwards

 

Whilst in the shop what did I spy in thc Cabinet!! A bright red box with a Yellow engine on it and Tri-ang Railway embalzoned on it.  Depsite not having the requirement for such a loco I did find the wallet coming out and shortly after the box was in a bag and on the way to the Pub!!

 

I am Now back at home admiring the little thing.....The Shop was Mark Models, Their Irish shops were allocated 3 so there maybe 2 in Dublin that you might be able to get you mits on, R3809 does no show on thier website so a call or email might do.

 

The pints did taste a bit sweeter post meeting!!

 

Lets hope it works.

 

Cheers

 

George 

Edited March 1, 2020 by Georgeconna

[robmcg]

49 minutes ago, Hroth said:

 

In a way its a pity that the loco/tender electrical connection wasn't via one of those little white plugs, although I could forsee problems arising from that!

 

Oi oi oi .    Satan Ariseth, and this is no place for religion.

 

You've got to admit, inverting a Rocket to attach or undo one of those plugs would likely introduce a whole set of new profanities to even the most genteel English tongue.

 

Mind you, there are some here who see the hand-fitting of separate 00 Maunsell door handles, or Hornby smokebox handles, or plastic front lamp brackets, as a necessary rite of passage.

 

I hope there are some buyers of R3809 and R3810 who have succeeded in unpacking the models, and with ordinary sensible care achieved a lovely working model train which exemplifies the age.

[gc4946]

Thanks for posting your experiences here on issues with the R3809 train pack.

My work colleague hasn't yet received his pack, but because he's not a regular visitor to this forum, I'll need to warn him of potential issues.

[aaron3820]

Whilst waiting for my R3809 to arrive (hopefully intact) I came across another Rocket which was a bit more local to me. 
 

Safe to say I now have two Hornby Rocket packs on their way. Knowing my luck with the original style model and reading up on people’s experiences with the new ones so far it’ll be fun to see whether either work!

Edited March 1, 2020 by aaron3820
forgot how to speak English

[moonshinerunner]

On 29/02/2020 at 00:47, Hroth said:

 

I never got a Triang one (or the Hornby repeat for that matter), but I do have the steam one, though I keep kicking myself for not getting a couple of the coaches at the time!  The steam one hasn't been run for years, I've not even checked it to see if the gas container has split...  Never mind.

 

 

A similar problem to that which occurred to the Titfield Thunderbolt after the brake test......

 

Don't worry, I just bought a new steel gas tank for mine and it had its maiden run today, I love live steam. Never had one before, so still learning to make sure the track is clicked together.

[aaron3820]

It’s funny, with the prices on eBay for the new Rockets it’s actually cheaper now to buy the live steam version 

[GWR-fan]

The cynic in me wonders how many shops ordered the limited edition Rocket for themselves to profit from.  I did not go searching for this it just appeared on my eBay screen.  I see it personally as bad form as a shop has an advantage over a customer in securing a limited release model.

 

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Hornby-R3809-Stephensons-Rocket-Train-Pack-Centenary-Year-Limited-Edition-1963/392707734004?epid=2308112932&hash=item5b6f3479f4:g:mAgAAOSwcpVeWoK7

 

[Bernard Lamb]

23 minutes ago, GWR-fan said:

 I see it personally as bad form as a shop has an advantage over a customer in securing a limited release model.

 

Why?

We no longer have fixed prices.

When there is surplus stock prices are reduced.

When there is a shortage of available stock prices are increased.

Have you never bought any thing at a discount?

The system works both ways.

Dealers have suffered in recent years. 

They currently have a rare opportunity to make a few bob. Well, a few who managed to get the models and keep them for a couple of weeks have.

Bernard

[sandwich station]

I think it's bad form for a business to sell a brand new one for way above the recommended price by Hornby, however, if it is second hand then they can charge what they like.

Edited March 1, 2020 by sandwich station
Spelling Mistake.

[Ian Hargrave]

59 minutes ago, GWR-fan said:

The cynic in me wonders how many shops ordered the limited edition Rocket for themselves to profit from.  I did not go searching for this it just appeared on my eBay screen.  I see it personally as bad form as a shop has an advantage over a customer in securing a limited release model.

 

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Hornby-R3809-Stephensons-Rocket-Train-Pack-Centenary-Year-Limited-Edition-1963/392707734004?epid=2308112932&hash=item5b6f3479f4:g:mAgAAOSwcpVeWoK7

 

 

Swings and roundabouts.The same retailer was selling off new Hornby Duchesses at knock down prices several weeks ago.Yes,we all love a bargain don’t we and hate being,as we love to relate,”ripped off”.It’s hard to make a living selling model trains at the best of times and these aren’t in that category.Some of you might remember our model shops tussle with Hornby attempting a direct sell policy and undercutting them not so long ago.It didn’t work and caused bad feeling which only now is beginning to dissipate.Hornby are hardly likely to want to interfere again to disrupt that relationship.Hornby also are still trying to restore their enterprise and put it on a sound footing.

 

Hard economic necessity as opposed to ethical trading is the major driving force,much as we here might find it distasteful 

[adb968008]

14 hours ago, Robin Brasher said:

I wonder what would happen if a collector bought one and kept it sealed in a box for ten years, then sold it at an inflated price and then the purchaser found it did not work.

 

Do what modellers always do...

 

1. Look for a cheap one to swap bits.

2. break it down for spares

3. convert it into something else