Hornby W1 Hush Hush

[No Decorum]

19 hours ago, melmerby said:

This things going to look really weird when traversing turnouts and suchlike with two sets of flying wheels under the cab!

Hornby’s Merchant Navies and A2/2s have solid chassis which prevent the fitting of flanged trailing wheels. Why on earth does Hornby do such things when it would be so easy to incorporate room for flanges? 

[stovepipe]

I suppose the alternative is a shallow ash pan, or one that is split in half so it can move with the wheelset, both of which detract from the looks. Given the 2nd radius constraint isn’t going to disappear any time soon, I think I prefer the new arrangement.

[miles73128]

6 hours ago, No Decorum said:

Hornby’s Merchant Navies and A2/2s have solid chassis which prevent the fitting of flanged trailing wheels. Why on earth does Hornby do such things when it would be so easy to incorporate room for flanges? 

Have a look at the ashpan on the rebuilt MN vs the original MN. I know which I prefer! Fixed with flangless looks WAY better! 

[atom3624]

The floating flanged wheels in the fixed pony framed Bachmann Pacifics works just fine.

 

Al.

[No Decorum]

45 minutes ago, miles73128 said:

Have a look at the ashpan on the rebuilt MN vs the original MN. I know which I prefer! Fixed with flangless looks WAY better! 

My point is that it is possible to design a trailing truck which is fixed and still allow for flanged trailing wheels, which can be used on less extreme curves. The Princess got it right.

[stovepipe]

4 hours ago, No Decorum said:

My point is that it is possible to design a trailing truck which is fixed and still allow for flanged trailing wheels, which can be used on less extreme curves. The Princess got it right.

The Princess got it right by providing some flanged wheel sets that almost no one can use? I’d be interested to know what radius curves you are using your ‘flanged’ Princess on? 

[No Decorum]

10 hours ago, stovepipe said:

The Princess got it right by providing some flanged wheel sets that almost no one can use? I’d be interested to know what radius curves you are using your ‘flanged’ Princess on? 

6'. I chose it to match the nominal radius of Peco large radius points and because it is a lot less unrealistic than tighter curves. I am sure my Princesses, Britannias and so on will run well on tighter curves but I haven’t any to test them on. I am sure that people on here run them on tighter curves. Do I recall correctly that 3' has been mentioned or was it third radius?

[cctransuk]

23 hours ago, No Decorum said:

Hornby’s Merchant Navies and A2/2s have solid chassis which prevent the fitting of flanged trailing wheels. Why on earth does Hornby do such things when it would be so easy to incorporate room for flanges? 

 

I cannot abide fixed trailing trucks which, on the prototype, could swing. Having seen the prototype, in BR days, negotiating pointwork I am conscious that it was clearly apparent that the truck frames followed the curve of the track. Particularly when reversing, the sideways movement of the truck as it followed the tender, and preceded the driving wheels, was very striking.

 

ALL of my locos that were supplied with fixed trailing trucks have been modified to be pivotted with flanged wheels - and the transformation in appearance is amazing.

 

John Isherwood.

[Eddie the dog]

Hi John,

Any chance of pics and details of mods please ?

Thanks.

[cctransuk]

5 hours ago, Eddie the dog said:

Hi John,

Any chance of pics and details of mods please ?

Thanks.

 

Eddie,

 

All my stock is in the process of being moved from the house into my new dedicated railway room  - so I can't find anything!

 

These conversions vary from model to model, but they involve nothing more complex than a piercing saw and normal modelling tools.

 

Inspect the model closely - it's usually obvious where the cuts and other work need to be undertaken.

 

In fact, my first conversion of an unrebuilt West Country was inspired by the suspicion that the model had originally been designed to have a pivotting trailing truck, but had been modified before production to have a fixed truck.

 

John Isherwood.

[Eddie the dog]

Hi John,

Cheers, no problem, I will give it a go.

Thanks.

[davidw]

In the LNER  context, the cartazzi didn't swing.

[melmerby]

2 hours ago, davidw said:

In the LNER  context, the cartazzi didn't swing.

But the axleboxes move from side to side in an arc:

https://www.a1steam.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/TOPLINK6.PDF

Edited April 8, 2021 by melmerby

[maico]

The floating cage flanged wheels in the fixed frame Bachmann Pacifics work but at the expense of having the outer frames too wide to be prototypical. There is no easy answer to model a Cartazzi axle but I think the twin axles on the Hornby W1 might look a bit strange floating off the track.

It's disappointing Hornby hasn't found a better solution in modeling rear trailing truck axle designs. I took some screenshots from Andy York's public enemy no. 1 Youtuber to illustrate the current Merchant Navy flangeless effort.
 

 

(copyright sam's trains)

 

 

Edited April 9, 2021 by maico

[stovepipe]

Though by only 3" each way, or 1mm on our 1:76.2 models.

[maico]

37 minutes ago, stovepipe said:

Though by only 3" each way, or 1mm on our 1:76.2 models.

 

The P2 project put together a short video expaining how it works

 

 

[2750Papyrus]

I hadn't realised Cartazzi worked for the GWR.  Was this design ever patented?

[cctransuk]

12 hours ago, davidw said:

In the LNER  context, the cartazzi didn't swing.

 

..... and that's the one railway / BR region for which I do not have any models.

 

John Isherwood.

[Ken.W]

The dreaded email from Merseyside this morning;

Pre-order for R3844 W1, early BR canceled, unable to obtain stock for order.

[John ks]

12 minutes ago, Ken.W said:

The dreaded email from Merseyside this morning;

Pre-order for R3844 W1, early BR canceled, unable to obtain stock for order.

Just got the same email 

Not happy Jan

John

[melmerby]

12 hours ago, stovepipe said:

Though by only 3" each way, or 1mm on our 1:76.2 models.

That's on the prototype,  even a Bissel truck wouldn't move much on the prototype.

 

The W1 has one each Cartazzi & Bissel trucks under the cab.

Edited April 9, 2021 by melmerby

[D9001]

1 hour ago, John ks said:

Just got the same email 

Not happy Jan

John

Me too. A month after they cancelled my A2/3 order so doubly disappointing. I am a big fan of theirs and a regular customer but i will not be pre-ordering anything from them again, I feel that I can’t rely on them delivering.

 

 Ordered one now from Hornby direct, hope it materialises. 

[Markeg]

I have had 2 emails this week.  R3980 W1 BR 60700 was first and now R3840 W1 Grey Hush Hush.  As those above have said.

Not happy.  But I wonder if they will get more stock than they have been told and we will find them listed on the website when they eventually arrive.  This has happened to others.  I sold a SEF Kit so I would not have to build one.

Mark 

[teaky]

There are still some versions of the W1 available to pre-order from Derails (my favourite seller by far).

 

https://www.derails.co.uk/index.php?route=product/search&filter_name=w1

 

An orange button indicates low stock, red indicates sold out.

[richard.h]

59 minutes ago, D9001 said:

Me too. A month after they cancelled my A2/3 order so doubly disappointing. I am a big fan of theirs and a regular customer but i will not be pre-ordering anything from them again, I feel that I can’t rely on them delivering.

 

 Ordered one now from Hornby direct, hope it materialises. 

Same again that's two orders cancelled out of three place placed I wont risk pre-ordering again from Hattons if they can't be relied on.

I have had an order accepted by Cheltenam Model Center so lets hope that that works out.

 

Richard