Hornby W1 Hush Hush

[landscapes]

9 hours ago, robmcg said:

 

I hadn't realised 60964 was available,  that's the one I have been waiting for and your photo of it alongside 60700 is an invaluable thing, given the radical differences between blue box and red box manifestations  of that elusive thing 'BR Brunswick Green'.

 

Are we not spoiled?

 

Here is another angle on my brother's 60700

 

Hi Robbie

 

Thats one very nice looking model, I must admit I have wanted to get the W1 for some time now long before Hornby decided to bring it out in RTR.

 

But unfortunately as far as I know 60700 never got up to Haymarket MPD.

 

Thank you for posting it.

 

Regards

 

David

 

 

[30368]

23 hours ago, 31A said:

This morning I added the extra bits from the bag, and tried to take some better pictures, in better light.

Looks really good Steve. It really is a fine model. Perhaps I am over critical of the green but the orange/black lining still looks too bright, particularly on the boiler cladding.

 

I am adding some further detail to mine (Firebox front, cylinder front cover and buffer spring housings behind the buffer beam.) Agree re the cylinder drain cock pipes. Pictures in Yeadon's Vol Two of 60700 with first BR coat of arms shows long pipes tied to the long guard iron which are not fitted to the model. There is also one picture that shows the pipes shortened, presumably when the long guard irons were removed in August 1953 during a Light Casual at Doncaster. I will follow your lead and shorten to the intermeadiate point.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

[zr2498]

21 hours ago, melmerby said:

Having seen the pictures others have posted, I decided a Garter Blue one would be nice, so have Just bought the last R3843 from TMC to go with my R3841 (also from TMC)

 

 

Just spotted this - for info

[Ian Hargrave]

Spotted earlier this morning. AFAIK the best online delivered price. Having said that,Arcadia Models have both versions on at £198 plus p&p .Gaugemaster are post free….either on their own website or on eBay.Don’t believe they have yet deducted one order ( mine ) atm from their website.I’ve decided on an LNER version as an extra treat.

 

 

 

[melmerby]

9 hours ago, zr2498 said:

Just spotted this - for info

They didn't have any when I looked, I tried about 6 well known outlets and TMC had one, which they didn't have the day before!

Maybe the retailers have ordered more than their pre orders and only when they have been satisfied do the remainder go on sale?

[Ribird]

I have received my Garter Blue W1 today, direct from Hornby. Arrived in one piece! Wrapped with a nice thick layer of foam. I do not have a layout to test haulage capabilities.
 

Positive opinions; the paint is probably the closest I’ve seen to the real thing. No longer a yellow tone to it. The red wheels is the best I have. Wheels have been retooled (both bogie and driving), no longer pizza cutters! The moulding seems to be tighter now on these wheels. The new tooling tender is great with the streamlining, something should have been done a long time ago. Everything else seems to match existing A4, if not defined more. New tooled front bogie for the W1, not a solid block of metal for the A4’s. But correct me if I’m wrong, but this will not work for A4’s due to lack of rivets?
 

Negative; it is odd they put a NEM socket on the bogie. Yes it can be removed, but leaves the front bare with no pipe and cosmetic screw link. The pipe is supplied in the detail bag, but not screwlink. Of course, it’s a Hornby motor and runs a bit loud, but what can you do about it. 
 

Suggestions/neutral; the motion/rods are both good and bad. Some parts are new (crosshead for example), yet some parts are flat metal (union link), where the A4 had that detail. The lining is not as thin as R3771 Bittern, but more towards the past releases. They should have taken the time to retool/modify the tender chassis to leave new options for future tenders, whenever they retool the A4 (which would only be to update the tooling to modern standards and fix sagging).

 

Not related: Does look very plain with no name! 
 

Attached (hopefully in right order and upright) are 10000, tender streamline (x2), colour comparison for body, colour comparison for wheels. Sorry about the confusion for tenders, 10000 is in the back, while Bittern (R3771) is in front. 
 

Left to right for bodies; DoC, Mallard, Bitten (R3771), and 10000.

For wheels; DoC, 10000, and Bittern (R3771).

 

Overall: this is actually a great model. This is probably the best A4 they have done. (Yes I know this is a W1, but you get what I’m saying)

 

Update for R3840, still no word from Hornby since it was received by repair department. 
 

I would like to see more of the BR green W1 compared to other BR green releases from Hornby. From what I’m seeing, it is better than the Kings and recent models? 

 

Thanks for reading! 

Edited January 17, 2022 by Ribird

[robmcg]

On 16/01/2022 at 09:37, robmcg said:

Miracles do happen. Yesterday I received a second R3840 original W1 model, this one purchased from Olivias in mid December when some dealers were receiving faulty stock.

 

It cost a slight premium over RRP but was less than Ebay. And VAT was removed, so not bad.

 

When I saw the packet I was a bit worried, no padding of any kind, just and extra cardboard layer over the Hornby box.

 

But it survived the 1 month 18,000km journey undamaged.  Sorry I didn't take a quick photo of it in its shroud, but thought I might re-sell it sometime as un-opened. Visually there was nothing wrong or loose, and no rattles. 

 

Luck? 

 

 

Update.

 

I opened the box today to photograph it.

 

Alas, the tender was not fixed to its chassis at all. 

The cylinders and motion on bothe sides are tipped by about 15 degrees, this will require body-off investigation.

I didn't try to run it.

 

So three out of three purchases of R3840 / 1    unfit for sale in a major way, 

 

Not sure what to say, really.

 

 

 

 

 

That cylinder valve gear and slidebar may be a bit damaged, the step was damaged before removal.

 

I may attempt repair. Both sides look  bit beyond help... ?

 

What a pity, and I feel sorry for anyone buying a 'new' 'unopened' R3840.

 

Sending it back to the UK is an expensive slow and unplesant option for everyone incuding the retailer. 

Edited January 17, 2022 by robmcg
addition

[No Decorum]

4 hours ago, robmcg said:

 

Update.

 

I opened the box today to photograph it.

 

Alas, the tender was not fixed to its chassis at all. 

The cylinders and motion on bothe sides are tipped by about 15 degrees, this will require body-off investigation.

I didn't try to run it.

 

So three out of three purchases of R3840 / 1    unfit for sale in a major way, 

 

Not sure what to say, really.

 

 

 

 

 

That cylinder valve gear and slidebar may be a bit damaged, the step was damaged before removal.

 

I may attempt repair. Both sides look  bit beyond help... ?

 

What a pity, and I feel sorry for anyone buying a 'new' 'unopened' R3840.

 

Sending it back to the UK is an expensive slow and unplesant option for everyone incuding the retailer. 

Good grief, that is dreadful! It looks like an assembly error rather than damage in transit. The more I see of these catastrophes, the luckier I feel that my example came with nothing worse than a detached step.

 

Overall, I am quite impressed by mine, other than the trailing wheels.

[Mallard60022]

On 15/01/2022 at 15:49, Ian Hargrave said:

IMHO that’s the best Hornby BR green I’ve seen for a very long time and it makes such a difference making for an appealing model of 60700 . No qualms about ordering,which I have also done via MonkBar. Many thanks,Steve aka 31A.

 

On 15/01/2022 at 14:33, 31A said:

This morning I added the extra bits from the bag, and tried to take some better pictures, in better light.

 

The cylinder drains provided are the 'long' type which in reality were clipped to the front guard irons, which were removed at some stage in the 1950s, so I've cut mine back to the length that appears in the 1955 photo in the RCTS Green Book.  They don't cause any running problems on my layout.  Later, they seem to have been cut back further still so I presume the 'short' version referred to in the instructions will be supplied with the 'late crest' model.  The vacuum pipe for the tender back is the 'low' type usually found on corridor tenders; I think the 8 wheeled non corridor tenders usually had the 'high' type, although I've not found any pictures that show the back of 60700's tender.  I will change it if I can find out that it's wrong.

 

The cab doors are extremely fragile!  It's a pity they seem to have gone back to the pattern of the A3s and A4s, rather than the more robust arrangement of the Thompson Pacifics.

 

I don't think I'll be able to fit flanged rear carrying wheels!

 

I've shortened the tender draw bar by finding a brass washer that would pass over the pivot screw, soldering it over the inner loop of the draw bar and cutting away the outer loop.  It goes round the curves on my layout easily.

 

I took a couple more pictures, in better light - the room blinds opened to let in what little daylight there is, and with the room lights on (warm white long life bulbs).  Nevertheless I don't think the I Phone's camera has really brought out the correct colours.  With the naked eye, I can see why @30368 says it has a yellow cast to it.  The lining appears to be too yellow in my pictures; in reality it is quite a decent shade of orange.

 

 

Looks wonderful. Strange that this is probably the best 'Green' for ages, however I have never seen a picture of this Engine in service (except ex Works) where it wasn't covered in crud; especially last couple of years.

Hey ho,

P

[31A]

4 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

 

Looks wonderful. Strange that this is probably the best 'Green' for ages, however I have never seen a picture of this Engine in service (except ex Works) where it wasn't covered in crud; especially last couple of years.

Hey ho,

P

 

Mine will probably get some crud sooner or later; although perhaps not as much as the real one seems to have usually worn, in view of the nice shade of green on this model!

 

[micklner]

5 hours ago, robmcg said:

 

Update.

 

I opened the box today to photograph it.

 

Alas, the tender was not fixed to its chassis at all. 

The cylinders and motion on bothe sides are tipped by about 15 degrees, this will require body-off investigation.

I didn't try to run it.

 

So three out of three purchases of R3840 / 1    unfit for sale in a major way, 

 

Not sure what to say, really.

 

 

 

 

 

That cylinder valve gear and slidebar may be a bit damaged, the step was damaged before removal.

 

I may attempt repair. Both sides look  bit beyond help... ?

 

What a pity, and I feel sorry for anyone buying a 'new' 'unopened' R3840.

 

Sending it back to the UK is an expensive slow and unplesant option for everyone incuding the retailer. 

Perhaps/hopefully  it just needs a new Cylinder moulding . Another part to ask Hornby to send to you !!

Edited January 17, 2022 by micklner

[Michael Hodgson]

1 hour ago, 31A said:

 

Mine will probably get some crud sooner or later

 

Time to clean your track !

[mvwilson]

6 hours ago, robmcg said:

 

Update.

 

I opened the box today to photograph it.

 

Alas, the tender was not fixed to its chassis at all. 

The cylinders and motion on bothe sides are tipped by about 15 degrees, this will require body-off investigation.

I didn't try to run it.

 

So three out of three purchases of R3840 / 1    unfit for sale in a major way, 

 

Not sure what to say, really.

 

 

 

 

 

That cylinder valve gear and slidebar may be a bit damaged, the step was damaged before removal.

 

I may attempt repair. Both sides look  bit beyond help... ?

 

What a pity, and I feel sorry for anyone buying a 'new' 'unopened' R3840.

 

Sending it back to the UK is an expensive slow and unplesant option for everyone incuding the retailer. 

I always pay with PayPal. They always cover return postage even overseas. They also protect you if you have any problems with the retailer/seller.

[Ian Hargrave]

3 hours ago, 31A said:

 

Mine will probably get some crud sooner or later; although perhaps not as much as the real one seems to have usually worn, in view of the nice shade of green on this model!

 

LOL….let’s cherish it for awhile in the hope that this shade will be the norm for Hornby BR green. Best not to hold your breath on that one. Is there somebody there who actually did listen?

[robmcg]

10 hours ago, No Decorum said:

Good grief, that is dreadful! It looks like an assembly error rather than damage in transit. The more I see of these catastrophes, the luckier I feel that my example came with nothing worse than a detached step.

 

Overall, I am quite impressed by mine, other than the trailing wheels.

 

I'm reluctant to send it back by tracked airmail to Olivias, it toook a month to get here.

 

I might attempt a repair... straighten the cylinders, but the slidebars look a bit bent. And maybe the valve gear.

 

Anyone here got experience of repairing this fault?

 

[Ian Hargrave]

I’m so sorry Rob.And sadly you’ll probably get no change out of Olivia’s.,running much according to form in his sale of a problem Beyer Garrett to another forum member.This one looks to me like a case for the ICU if you pardon the use of the medical term. Good luck with this one.

[robmcg]

7 minutes ago, Ian Hargrave said:

I’m so sorry Rob.And sadly you’ll probably get no change out of Olivia’s.,running much according to form in his sale of a problem Beyer Garrett to another forum member.This one looks to me like a case for the ICU if you pardon the use of the medical term. Good luck with this one.

 

I have Emailed support at Olivias regarding returns and the cost of traked airmail, we shall see.

 

I'm left with a feeling, but only anecdotal evidence that over 50% of R3840 models are faulty and not fit for sale, and rather less than that are returned. Some of course can be fixed by buyers.

 

Strange that the model railway press have not to my knowledge mentioned any issue with this model.

[AY Mod]

5 minutes ago, robmcg said:

 

Strange that the model railway press have not to my knowledge mentioned any issue with this model.

 

What are you trying to suggest? Why is it 'strange'?

[maico]

8 hours ago, mvwilson said:

I always pay with PayPal. They always cover return postage even overseas. They also protect you if you have any problems with the retailer/seller.

 

Yes, I've used that option a couple of times in the UK. I needed to scan the return shipping label and invoice

[robmcg]

Well, with a shaking hand I removed the body, and the cylinder assembly hadn't been assembled in its recess, so I re-set it and now it looks better, steps aside.  Steps will need re-gluing, 

 

So not the disaster I thought. 

 

[robmcg]

1 hour ago, AY Mod said:

 

What are you trying to suggest? Why is it 'strange'?

 

This forum cited earlier dealers with high reject rates with stock they received. I didn't think this was a normal occurrence with Hornby, at least at the level of failure cited for R3840.

 

Perhaps I was wrong, I certainly would have thought it worth a mention in the press  if true, otherwise we must presume it is false?  I've had 3 from 3 of R3840 and R3841 unfit for sale, thus my question.

[AY Mod]

24 minutes ago, robmcg said:

Perhaps I was wrong, I certainly would have thought it worth a mention in the press  if true, otherwise we must presume it is false?  I've had 3 from 3 of R3840 and R3841 unfit for sale, thus my question

 

It sounded very, very much like we should be finding fault and publishing criticism to back up your findings. Instead of an inference that we're not saying anything please stop to consider that we have not been provided with items to review. Don't blame us and don't make implied criticisms that we're not doing anything.

[robmcg]

3 hours ago, AY Mod said:

 

It sounded very, very much like we should be finding fault and publishing criticism to back up your findings. Instead of an inference that we're not saying anything please stop to consider that we have not been provided with items to review. Don't blame us and don't make implied criticisms that we're not doing anything.

 

My findings are simply 3 from 3 faulty for my purchases, and about 30 pages back in this thread some contributors asserting high returns from retailers, from memory in one case 80% faulty, but of course I have no way to establish the veracity of this.

 

I thought that the model railway press, not just BRM, might have an inkling that not all was well with this particular model's quality control record, or not. It is obviously  of interest to prospective buyers of new unopened examples.

 

 I do understand that Hornby would be unlikely to publish the rate of returns, and that a magazine needs evidence if there are in fact high numbers of unsaleable R3840 models.

 

I haven't read anything about QC for R3840 in the model railway press, but like many here I'm curious about facts..

Edited January 18, 2022 by robmcg

[Kaput]

Ultimately the magazine's can only review whats in front of them and if the review sample has no issues then thats it.

 

With the lead times on magazine creation the reviews were probably written before joe public started taking delivery and the high number of issues started being reported.

 

Maybe a future issue will include a mention of the issues in a news article or something but I think the magazines need more evidence than "the internet said so" and would probably require at least a couple of retailers to approach them and go on the record with their experiences.

[Bernard Lamb]

12 hours ago, robmcg said:

 

I have Emailed support at Olivias regarding returns and the cost of traked airmail, we shall see.

 

I'm left with a feeling, but only anecdotal evidence that over 50% of R3840 models are faulty and not fit for sale, and rather less than that are returned. Some of course can be fixed by buyers.

 

Strange that the model railway press have not to my knowledge mentioned any issue with this model.

1/ You purchase from a dealer who has a bit of a "history" on the forum.

2/ You quote anecdotal evidence and state a figure. You fail to give any breakdown between faulty construction and transport damage.

3/ You do not know if any models purchased for review were received damaged and needed to be returned and replaced. You do not know if any were found to be faulty and were checked and replaced/faults corrected by the supplier.

The magazines have no need to mention any problems that are discussed on social media unless relevant to the actual model that they have for review. What is strange about that?

Caveat emptor.

Bernard