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Hornby W1 Hush Hush


truffy
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That's not good. I can the situation developing where people are going to have a place a pre-order with two or three different retailers in order to have a chance of one of them being able to supply. This has consequences:

  • If asked to pay a deposit, or upfront, it reduces the amount of available "hobby money" people will have at any time,  which will reduce overall spend on the hobby (you'll get refund if an order is cancelled by the supplier - but you'll then have to use that for the next set of speculative pre-orders).
  • People will start to order direct from the supplier to bypass any "retail rationing" - which my have some effect on the long term future for the retailers.
  • It skews the actual demand for products - there being apparently more orders than are actually needed.

Either way, it will probably not end well.

 

Edited by Zero Gravitas
thought of something else...
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It might not be Hatton’s fault... maybe Hornby are going to deliberately short supply the market in order to maintain strong desirability and therefore higher pricing.  Remember what happened with Sir William Stanier?  Hornby will have learned from that.

 

Could be that Hatton's are just the first ones to let us know what’s happening?

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2 hours ago, Chamby said:

It might not be Hatton’s fault... maybe Hornby are going to deliberately short supply the market in order to maintain strong desirability and therefore higher pricing.  Remember what happened with Sir William Stanier?  Hornby will have learned from that.

 

Could be that Hatton's are just the first ones to let us know what’s happening?

Bit of a silly game to play then?

If mine doesn't come from whence I pre-ordered it, I ain't going to be chasing one at an inflated price. and it's a sale lost.

Unless I can be fairly sure of buying something at pre-order stage and actually getting it I won't bother in future.

I've probably got enough locos to be going on with anyway, some of these are just "extras"

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18 minutes ago, melmerby said:

Bit of a silly game to play then?

If mine doesn't come from whence I pre-ordered it, I ain't going to be chasing one at an inflated price. and it's a sale lost.

Unless I can be fairly sure of buying something at pre-order stage and actually getting it I won't bother in future.

I've probably got enough locos to be going on with anyway, some of these are just "extras"

Very dangerous game to play with their finances.  Things like the W1 and I would suggest the Rocket are one offs.  Nobody really needs one on their layout.  They are nice to have but there are a lot of nice things out there.  200 quid for something a year or more late and with the risk, from experience with the A2/2s of dodgy build quality and paint finish.  I wouldn't want to be messing my customers around.

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11 hours ago, Chamby said:

maybe Hornby are going to deliberately short supply the market in order to maintain strong desirability and therefore higher pricing.  Remember what happened with Sir William Stanier?  Hornby will have learned from that.


I dont think they are, Hornbys history is to cash in very rapidly by making multiple releases, often destroying collectible value...

 

Pecketts  the original three were so highly prized their weight in gold was  lower than the loco’s value... roll on 2021 and I suspect the bargain bin will be busy this year with Pecketts.

 

Look at Rocket, 2x Highly prized models in 2020, I suspect many will get dumped once the mail coach set arrives.. afterall how many people want 3 Rockets ?

 

I got all excited about the W1, 2MT, until I saw all the extras being produced in 2021.

 

I dont think the rarity value will last...it’s initial desirability that creates hysteria, but fashion moves on quickly, order early and reliably, or wait until the different versions arrive, the prices do fall.
 

 

 

 

 

Edited by adb968008
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1 hour ago, SomethingTrainLover said:

Out of curiosity, what's the current expected release date for the W1s(namely the Garter Blue)?
Hattons and Kernow say June right now.

Hornby website says Autumn 2021 for all the original announced versions R3840-R3844

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8 hours ago, Hilux5972 said:

Hornby website says Autumn 2021 for all the original announced versions R3840-R3844

I was told last week it would be May/June, but it comes when it  comes!

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There's a new Signal Box showing the A4 shaped W1

The overhang of the rear of the two sets of trailing wheels really overhangs on Hornby's layout curves and it is extremely obvious.

It definitely needs a swinging truck (or two!)

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41 minutes ago, melmerby said:

There's a new Signal Box showing the A4 shaped W1

The overhang of the rear of the two sets of trailing wheels really overhangs on Hornby's layout curves and it is extremely obvious.

It definitely needs a swinging truck (or two!)

But the real trucks didnt swing. The problem isnt the model, its people insisting on running  scale models of large prototypes on trainset corners.

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1 hour ago, melmerby said:

There's a new Signal Box showing the A4 shaped W1

The overhang of the rear of the two sets of trailing wheels really overhangs on Hornby's layout curves and it is extremely obvious.

It definitely needs a swinging truck (or two!)

 

Indeed, I decided not to order seeing these pictures which showed the axles mounted into the chassis. Bachmann and others show how to model fixed Cartazzi trucks wihout pivots or flangeless wheels.

 

 

w1-hush-hush-parts_2.jpg

w1-hush-hush-running-sample_1.jpg

Edited by maico
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12 minutes ago, Denbridge said:

But the real trucks didnt swing. The problem isnt the model, its people insisting on running  scale models of large prototypes on trainset corners.

The Cartazzi axleboxes (outside bearings) didn't, although they move from side to side.

The Bissell truck (inside bearings) did.

 

The forward axle was similar to that of the Pacifics, having outside frames and Cartazzi axleboxes. The rear axle was an inside-framed Bissell truck, pivoted ahead of the leading axle.

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12 hours ago, melmerby said:

The Cartazzi axleboxes (outside bearings) didn't, although they move from side to side.

The Bissell truck (inside bearings) did.

 

The forward axle was similar to that of the Pacifics, having outside frames and Cartazzi axleboxes. The rear axle was an inside-framed Bissell truck, pivoted ahead of the leading axle.

I know. My point is that the suggestion for swivelling trucks would be incorrect.

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4 minutes ago, Denbridge said:

I know. My point is that the suggestion for swivelling trucks would be incorrect.

?

The rear pair of wheels should not be fixed and following the frame as in the Hornby model. they should be swivelling and following the track.

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1 minute ago, melmerby said:

?

The rear pair of wheels should not be fixed and following the frame as in the Hornby model. they should be swivelling and following the track.

It doesnt matter. It wouldnt change the ridiculous look of a big locomotive on toy train corners.

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13 minutes ago, Denbridge said:

It doesnt matter. It wouldnt change the ridiculous look of a big locomotive on toy train corners.

But it would change the trajectory of the wheels on my 3' radius curves, such that they didn't float "off rail"

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You know what?

I'm losing interest in this model, probably for now, after Hornby's fathing around with the suppliers.

My guess is they're going to lose sales, even if it may 'stabilise pricing and margins'.

 

My thinking of 'can't wait for this to come out' has changed to milder curiosity.

 

Good job Hornby!

 

Al.

Edited by atom3624
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1 hour ago, melmerby said:

But it would change the trajectory of the wheels on my 3' radius curves, such that they didn't float "off rail"

 

Hornby adopting fixed, flangeless trailing trucks on Pacifics was, and is, sheer laziness.

 

I have several such locos that came with fixed, flangeless trailing trucks and have managed to convert all of them to pivotted, flanged condition.

 

It would be simple for Hornby to supply their models as pivotted, flanged; and to supply a locking screw and unflanged wheelset for those who use trainset curves.

 

It should not be necessary to take a piercing saw and milling cutter to a brand-new, 'RTR' model in order to make all of the wheels run on the rails!

 

John Isherwood.

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17 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

Hornby adopting fixed, flangeless trailing trucks on Pacifics was, and is, sheer laziness.

 

I have several such locos that came with fixed, flangeless trailing trucks and have managed to convert all of them to pivotted, flanged condition.

 

It would be simple for Hornby to supply their models as pivotted, flanged; and to supply a locking screw and unflanged wheelset for those who use trainset curves.

 

It should not be necessary to take a piercing saw and milling cutter to a brand-new, 'RTR' model in order to make all of the wheels run on the rails!

 

John Isherwood.

Well maybe you are happy having a flappy wheelset, space and a view through the loco where there shouldn’t be one. Not everyone is. The LNER locos did not have moving frames under the cab. This looks prototypical. Don’t like it then modify it like you do. Or don’t buy it. 

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3 minutes ago, Hilux5972 said:

Don’t like it then modify it like you do. Or don’t buy it. 

 

I don't - not a single ex-LNER loco.

 

Fortunately, I don't require any - but I would be greatly disincentivised from modelling any ex-LNER location that required me to run RTR Pacifics with wheels that hovered above the rails, or swung out into fresh air.

 

It is possible to produce RTR 16.5mm. gauge / 4mm. scale LNER Pacifics with fixed trailing frames and pivotting trailing trucks for running on sensible radius tracks. As I said, it simply requires a locking screw and an unflanged wheelset to enable such models to run on less-than-sensible radius tracks.

 

John Isherwood.

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4 hours ago, Hilux5972 said:

 The LNER locos did not have moving frames under the cab. This looks prototypical. Don’t like it then modify it like you do. Or don’t buy it. 

But the W1 does have a swivelling truck between the frames that should follow the track.

This could be accomodated on the model as has been mentioned, with flangeless wheels and a locking screw for traversing train set curves but flanged wheels with movement for larger radii.

The W1 just accentuates the fixed wheels anomaly

Edited by melmerby
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14 minutes ago, melmerby said:

But the W1 does have a swivelling truck between the frames that should follow the track.

This could be accomodated on the model as has been mentioned, with flangeless wheels and a locking screw for traversing train set curves but flanged wheels with movement for larger radii.

The W1 just accentuates the fixed wheels anomaly

Exactly so - the leading carrying wheel at the rear of the engine was a radial axle as on the pacifics.  But the trailing carrying axle at the rear end was a Bissel truck with inside frames - so it would follow the track if modelled correctly.  To me Hornby's approach with the W1 unfortunately appears to be to go for the cheapest to produce solution rather than bother with doing it properly for the rearmost carrying axle.  

 

And if that photo of the parts represents the production version it looks as if it would need a milling machine to create space for a proper trailing truck - sorry but it has helped to even more dissuade me from buying a W1.

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