RMweb Premium JDW Posted February 3, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 3, 2020 Yes, that's correct the Hornby model represents the original livery and layout. Some of the smaller windows at the "London" end* of the coach were blanked off due to changes of the internal layout when they were refurbished. *The buffet coach was fitted with standard class seats at refurbishment, and turned around so the buffet/kitchen end was next to the first class coach, and standard class end next to the standard class coaches. Apart from that, the coaches all face the same way, with the two small windows towards the south/London/DVT end of the train. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Port Carlisle Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 Think the suspension arms on the bogies on the Hornby MK4 are in the as built position as well, they got swapped round on the real MK4 because of rough riding. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Richy59 Posted February 5, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 5, 2020 Just noticed Hornby updated their Class 91 images with a pre-production render sample I believe. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGR Hooper! Posted February 6, 2020 Author Share Posted February 6, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, Richy59 said: Just noticed Hornby updated their Class 91 images with a pre-production render sample I believe. This image has been there from the 6th of Jan 2020, the day it was announced. It's not a pre-production sample, it's an image of the CAD that's used and has the livery applied over it. They do it for all their models upto a point where they have and can photograph the factory samples. Cheers Edited February 6, 2020 by MGR Hooper! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Richy59 Posted February 6, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 6, 2020 5 hours ago, MGR Hooper! said: This image has been there from the 6th of Jan 2020, the day it was announced. It's not a pre-production sample, it's an image of the CAD that's used and has the livery applied over it. They do it for all their models upto a point where they have and can photograph the factory samples. Cheers Yeah sorry, I was getting myself mixed up with the other 91s they announced which just have placeholder real images on their website. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
classy52 Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 Just a heads up that LNER are retaining 10 Class 91 sets until December 2023 due to lack of Azuma's thus still some life left in them on the ECML. 3 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimbus Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 10 minutes ago, classy52 said: Just a heads up that LNER are retaining 10 Class 91 sets until December 2023 due to lack of Azuma's thus still some life left in them on the ECML. Might we hope that's long enough to make it worthwhile re-vinyling them? That Virgin red is strangely drab, and it would be nice to remember them looking classy. The Nim. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted February 7, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 7, 2020 On 06/02/2020 at 18:00, Nimbus said: Might we hope that's long enough to make it worthwhile re-vinyling them? That Virgin red is strangely drab, and it would be nice to remember them looking classy. The Nim. Perhaps they could copy the DRS route of plausible deniability In event of failure, whilst creating amazing PR... just like the 37/4’s.. in other words vinyl them in Intercity livery. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Mac Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 On 07/02/2020 at 01:45, classy52 said: Just a heads up that LNER are retaining 10 Class 91 sets until December 2023 due to lack of Azuma's thus still some life left in them on the ECML. On 07/02/2020 at 02:00, Nimbus said: Might we hope that's long enough to make it worthwhile re-vinyling them? That Virgin red is strangely drab, and it would be nice to remember them looking classy. The Nim. Is it just me??? I’m having some difficulty getting my head round the 91’s, mk4’s, DVT’s moving slowly towards being Heritage traction!!! 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted February 10, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 10, 2020 (edited) On 03/02/2020 at 02:49, MGR Hooper! said: Can anyone tell me what's the difference between the Mk3 and Mk4 DVT? Apart from the obvious valance/skirting on the front of it, is there anything else like the body profile or something? Differing electricals, mk3’s have buffers and lower speed bogies. Mk3 DVTs used to work with mk2’s also. They were designed to look like the class 90. a MK3 DVT is an economy upgrade of the WCML, the 90 (and 87/86) being able to reduce need for loco changes (and hence dispense with 81/85’s), but also to remove Mk1 full brakes that were restricting speeds on WCML mainline services. Had the mk3 DVT have been invented today, it would be a passenger brake, rather than a parcels brake, back then it was both a safety consideration and a parcels brake replacement. It owes its history though to the mk4 DVT which was purpose designed for the Intercity 225 “train” which never took off. The mk4 DVT profile was to allow tilt and a maximum of 140mph, unlike the mk3 which was 125mph. The high speed DVT (>100mph) itself goes back to Glasgow -Edinburgh push pull services, though MAV Hungary was running 75-80mph long distance push pull since the 1960’s. Though APT was kind of a twin DVT operation, with a cab-less 91 in the middle (I await the shoot downs on that one), but if APT succeeded in nothing else it proved a high speed AC “push pull” was viable... Shinkansen being an EMU, and TGV/ ICE being twin power cars initially. to sum DVT up in one line... a typically british cheap solution. Edited February 10, 2020 by adb968008 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Steven B Posted February 11, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 11, 2020 22 hours ago, adb968008 said: Differing electricals, mk3’s have buffers and lower speed bogies. Mk3 DVTs used to work with mk2’s also. Just to clarify, both Mk3 and Mk4 DVTs had buffers at the cab ends. Only the Mk3 DVT had buffers on the train end of the vehicle. 22 hours ago, adb968008 said: to sum DVT up in one line... a typically british cheap solution. At the time there was the need to remove the need to run-around a train, or replace the loco. The DVT did this perfectly. Add in the fact that on most services they were replacing a BG then they're a great solution. They're no different in principle to the EMD F40PH Amtrac converted in to driving bagage cars. There are plenty of Cab-cars in North America, across Europe and Asia. Technically a GWR auto-trailler is little different. The Mk2 DBSO and 4TC both provided a driving cab for remote control of a loco and carried passengers. Done now they'd be just like the Mk5 DT. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixie Dean Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 I see that Grand Union's website states that the trains from South Wales to London will be MK4s pulled by Class 91s at 125 mph. So maybe there is scope for a new livery on a Class 91! 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixie Dean Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 (edited) They have another livery for their planned Stirling to Euston service which I personally prefer: Again they state that the service will run wherever possible at 125 mph. It will be interesting to see where this is possible. Edited February 12, 2020 by Dixie Dean 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 1 minute ago, Dixie Dean said: They have another livery for their planned Stirling to Euston service which I personally prefer: As an LMS modeller, I prefer the red one. They seem better suited to a GW service, where they can run at 125mph. 90's & Mk3As can cope with WCML services. There should be some of these from Anglia too. & as an added bonus, many WCML drivers & depot staff will already be familiar with these...unless the Mk4s are in a significantly better state of maintenance. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixie Dean Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 Of course it all depends on what the ORR decide. Their proposals may come to nothing at all. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted February 12, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 12, 2020 46 minutes ago, Dixie Dean said: I see that Grand Union's website states that the trains from South Wales to London will be MK4s pulled by Class 91s at 125 mph. So maybe there is scope for a new livery on a Class 91! Well it’d have been spectacular as a livery if they’d worked the Dragon into the full side like the Saltaire one! Sticking the small flag on is rather naff in comparison 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGR Hooper! Posted February 13, 2020 Author Share Posted February 13, 2020 On 12/02/2020 at 22:20, Dixie Dean said: They have another livery for their planned Stirling to Euston service which I personally prefer: Again they state that the service will run wherever possible at 125 mph. It will be interesting to see where this is possible. I definitely love this one better... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel_H Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 On 03/02/2020 at 15:44, JDW said: Yes, that's correct the Hornby model represents the original livery and layout. Some of the smaller windows at the "London" end* of the coach were blanked off due to changes of the internal layout when they were refurbished. *The buffet coach was fitted with standard class seats at refurbishment, and turned around so the buffet/kitchen end was next to the first class coach, and standard class end next to the standard class coaches. Apart from that, the coaches all face the same way, with the two small windows towards the south/London/DVT end of the train. As built, the mark 4 standard opens had a toilet at each end of the coach. To create more seats, the southern end of the coach saw the toilet removed and another bay of seating put in its place. As a result the small toilet window was removed and a standard passenger window inserted 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted February 16, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 16, 2020 On 12/02/2020 at 17:28, PaulRhB said: Well it’d have been spectacular as a livery if they’d worked the Dragon into the full side like the Saltaire one! Sticking the small flag on is rather naff in comparison I’d like to see Europhoenix applied down the sides of a rake of mk4’s myself. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGR Hooper! Posted February 28, 2020 Author Share Posted February 28, 2020 (edited) From today's TES blog.... Edited March 20, 2020 by MGR Hooper! 5 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrel Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 On 12/02/2020 at 16:50, Dixie Dean said: They have another livery for their planned Stirling to Euston service which I personally prefer: Again they state that the service will run wherever possible at 125 mph. It will be interesting to see where this is possible. They may want to change the name. Grand union is not going to go down well in Scotland. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixie Dean Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 46 minutes ago, darrel said: They may want to change the name. Grand union is not going to go down well in Scotland. Oh dear! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGR Hooper! Posted March 20, 2020 Author Share Posted March 20, 2020 Additional artwork images. This time the one that goes on the boxes. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted March 20, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 20, 2020 (edited) The grey on the LNER is way too dark, its almost white. ..and this is a dirty example. here is another, it needs to be the same as their coaches (as used on the mk4’s, but equally as Hornby used on their HSTs). Edited March 20, 2020 by adb968008 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGR Hooper! Posted March 20, 2020 Author Share Posted March 20, 2020 4 hours ago, adb968008 said: The grey on the LNER is way too dark, its almost white. ..and this is a dirty example. here is another, it needs to be the same as their coaches (as used on the mk4’s, but equally as Hornby used on their HSTs). They seem to have gotten the colours correct on the older VTEC set which came out a couple of years ago. Either way, it's a good spot. Please pass on the information to Paul Isles @Islesy via a PM incase he doesn't see this. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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