LMS Coronation Scot Coaches

[Garethp8873]

Absolutely fantastic decision of Hornby to bring out LMS Coronation Scot Coaches! These will most certainly compliment Hornby's already stunning Streamlined Coronations!   

 

Cannot wait Hornby!

 

On 24/12/2019 at 10:11, AY Mod said:

LMS Coronation Scot coaches

 

 

 

 

 

[robertcwp]

Indeed!  A nice surprise.

 

When modelling the Coronation Scot, always have the third class end next to the engine. The stock was turned after each trip. It may seem extreme, but look at the photos of the train in service (as opposed to on specials such as the record run and return). The third class end leads both ways. 

 

Hopefully, with all this new tooling, we shall in time see the carriages in the three other liveries in which they ran, i.e. LMS post-war, BR crimson and cream, BR maroon. The kitchen cars were entirely standard apart from the livery and would go well in many 1950s expresses. When they make them in BR liveries, assuming they do, I shall have at least two, plus most, if not all, of the other types. 

[CrazyRS]

Finally, good on you Hornby!

[MikeParkin65]

9 minutes ago, robertcwp said:

Indeed!  A nice surprise.

 

When modelling the Coronation Scot, always have the third class end next to the engine. The stock was turned after each trip. It may seem extreme, but look at the photos of the train in service (as opposed to on specials such as the record run and return). The third class end leads both ways. 

 

Hopefully, with all this new tooling, we shall in time see the carriages in the three other liveries in which they ran, i.e. LMS post-war, BR crimson and cream, BR maroon. The kitchen cars were entirely standard apart from the livery and would go well in many 1950s expresses. When they make them in BR liveries, assuming they do, I shall have at least two, plus most, if not all, of the other types. 

Just flicking through the Edward Talbot books and it seems that all of the coaches in the 1937 train had roof fairings covering the ventilators. Can’t see whether these were removed postwar  but presumably to model standard coaches Hornby will either have to tool a separate roof fairing or make 2 tools (ie ‘streamlined’ and ‘non-streamlined’) I think the current Hornby Stanier’s have the roof and sides as one moulding. 

[Garethp8873]

Useful to see Edward Talbot's book  'The Coronation Scot' includes an arrangement for this set and the other two sets.

 

Set  BFK    RFO    RK      RTO    RTO      RK      RTO   BTK

 1    5052  1069 7507  30084  8996  30086  8961  5812

 2    5052  1070 7508  30089  9003  30085  9004  5792 

 3    5054  1071 7509  30087  8950  30088  8931  5814

[Steamport Southport]

Well it'll save me a lot of work. The Comet ones I have in the pile will be built as normal coaches and I'll buy a set of these.

 

Looking at the instructions the RKs had extra jumper cables added.

 

 

 

Jason

[Invicta]

27 minutes ago, MikeParkin65 said:

Just flicking through the Edward Talbot books and it seems that all of the coaches in the 1937 train had roof fairings covering the ventilators. Can’t see whether these were removed postwar  but presumably to model standard coaches Hornby will either have to tool a separate roof fairing or make 2 tools (ie ‘streamlined’ and ‘non-streamlined’) I think the current Hornby Stanier’s have the roof and sides as one moulding. 

 

I hope I'm right, but it would seem pretty short-sighted for Hornby to tool these up without building in the ability to produce the 'standard' versions without the pressure ventilation fairings in the future- The Coronation Scot set is the star of this year's announcements for me, but the prospect of 'non-Coronation Scot' versions in future is every bit as appealing.

Edited January 6, 2020 by Invicta
unfinished post

[robertcwp]

The 1937 Coronation Scot stock (excluding the kitchen cars, which were standard apart from livery) retained the roof trunking. There is one on the right of this shot:

 

LMS-buffet_Euston_24-9-54 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

Also one here:

43032_Dore by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

And here:

46204_nrBerkhamstead_0950-Liverpool-Euston_22-7-61 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

[robertcwp]

54 minutes ago, Garethp8873 said:

Useful to see Edward Talbot's book  'The Coronation Scot' includes an arrangement for this set and the other two sets.

 

Set  BFK    RFO    RK      RTO    RTO      RK      RTO   BTK

 1    5052  1069 7507  30084  8996  30086  8961  5812

 2    5052  1070 7508  30089  9003  30085  9004  5792 

 3    5054  1071 7509  30087  8950  30088  8931  5814

The tabulation seems to have gone wrong.

 

Per the Talbot book, the sets were formed BFK, FK, RFO, RK, RTO, RTO, RK, RTO, BTK

 

Set 1: 5052, 1069, 7507, 30084, 8996, 8993, 30086, 8961, 5812

Set 2: 5053, 1070, 7508, 30089, 9003, 9006, 30085, 9004, 5792

Set 3: 5054, 1071, 7509, 30087, 8950, 9029, 30088, 8931, 5814

 

Whether they maintained that arrangement, I don't know.

 

There is at least one photo of a set being hauled by a non-streamlined pacific when in use on a relief or Saturday train, with additional carriages attached. 

 

Incidentally, Edward Talbot was unaware that the stock was turned after each journey until I pointed out to him that all in-service photos show the train the same way round and that it is listed as having the third class leading in the one carriage working book from the period of which I have a copy.

[MikeParkin65]

55 minutes ago, robertcwp said:

 

 

Incidentally, Edward Talbot was unaware that the stock was turned after each journey until I pointed out to him that all in-service photos show the train the same way round and that it is listed as having the third class leading in the one carriage working book from the period of which I have a copy.

So the 1st class passengers always had the shortest walk from the barriers for boarding?

[Clive Mortimore]

There was a photo on a thread on here about two or so years a go of one of the RFOs on the WR . The pressure ventilation trunking threw everyone as they could't work out what type of GWR coach it was until someone spotted the M suffix on the number. 

 

I am right in thinking the coaches ended up in general service but retained their more luxuriance seating arrangements.  One of the FKs or RFO  are now on the hit list for Sheffield Exchange's coaching stock. 

[MikeHunter]

Great announcement by Hornby. A couple of questions:1) will it be possible to model the complete train?

2) Are the coaches specific to the Scot, or were they standard diagrams specially painted for use in the train? My Hornby Staniers look a bit boring for lack of variety formed as an express, I have to add the ex Dapol restaurant car and a 3rd open by Replica to give some variety. Noted the above comment about the kitchen cars.

[robertcwp]

34 minutes ago, MikeParkin65 said:

So the 1st class passengers always had the shortest walk from the barriers for boarding?

No one seems to know. It might have been to keep them away from the engine. Perhaps the pressure ventilation was inclined to suck in the exhaust?

[robertcwp]

34 minutes ago, MikeParkin65 said:

So the 1st class passengers always had the shortest walk from the barriers for boarding?

No one seems to know. It might have been to keep them away from the engine. Perhaps the pressure ventilation was inclined to suck in the exhaust?

[Clive Mortimore]

12 minutes ago, robertcwp said:

No one seems to know. It might have been to keep them away from the engine. Perhaps the pressure ventilation was inclined to suck in the exhaust?

Hi Robert 

 

It was so the porters knew which end of the platform  to wait so they got the biggest tip. 

[Cor-onGRT4]

Waiting years for this to come.

 

More information on here of the Coronation Scot

 

https://www.wondersofworldengineering.com/streamlined-expresses.html

 

Edited January 6, 2020 by Cor-onGRT4

[Wickham Green]

15 hours ago, MikeParkin65 said:

So the 1st class passengers always had the shortest walk from the barriers for boarding?

..... and the longest walk at the destination ................ same as having First Class at the London end of trains nowadays - it doesn't make a LOT of sense but it's neat and everybody knows their place !

[MikeParkin65]

21 minutes ago, Wickham Green said:

..... and the longest walk at the destination ................ same as having First Class at the London end of trains nowadays - it doesn't make a LOT of sense but it's neat and everybody knows their place !

It was my evening stroll up past the first class at Euston that inspired my comment

[Aire Head]

16 hours ago, MikeHunter said:

Great announcement by Hornby. A couple of questions:1) will it be possible to model the complete train?

2) Are the coaches specific to the Scot, or were they standard diagrams specially painted for use in the train? My Hornby Staniers look a bit boring for lack of variety formed as an express, I have to add the ex Dapol restaurant car and a 3rd open by Replica to give some variety. Noted the above comment about the kitchen cars.

 

I'm very keen to know this too! 

 

Fortunately I can add more variety through use of portholes as a 1950s modeller but would certainly appreciate more variety!

[TheSignalEngineer]

16 hours ago, MikeHunter said:

Great announcement by Hornby. A couple of questions:1) will it be possible to model the complete train?

2) Are the coaches specific to the Scot, or were they standard diagrams specially painted for use in the train? My Hornby Staniers look a bit boring for lack of variety formed as an express, I have to add the ex Dapol restaurant car and a 3rd open by Replica to give some variety. Noted the above comment about the kitchen cars.

Link to one of my posts  on the main thread giving diagram numbers of stock they were converted or derived from. 

The Coronation Scot stock went back into normal traffic externally unaltered after WW2 until 1962-64, so across three livery periods

[Pete the Elaner]

16 hours ago, MikeHunter said:

Great announcement by Hornby. A couple of questions:1) will it be possible to model the complete train?

2) Are the coaches specific to the Scot, or were they standard diagrams specially painted for use in the train? My Hornby Staniers look a bit boring for lack of variety formed as an express, I have to add the ex Dapol restaurant car and a 3rd open by Replica to give some variety. Noted the above comment about the kitchen cars.

1) Yes, I believe it will. The Scot was 9 coaches long & all of these have been listed.

2) They were specially modified with pressure ventilation, which created external detail differences. After the service was discontinued, the coaches were scattered throughout the rest of the fleet.

[Barry Ten]

Apologies if it's staring me in the face, but I've missed the livery details for these coaches - are they going to be the blue ones?

[Invicta]

Yes, these are the 1937 blue Coronation Scot set. The red and gold ones are the 1939 sets, (which toured America, but IIRC never saw service in the UK before the war intervened)- they'd probably be a more complex proposition for Hornby as the coach designs were unique to the Coronation Scot, and consisted largely of articulated pairs

Edited January 7, 2020 by Invicta

[rovex]

out of interest if the stock was scattered after the war, what coaches would the kitchen cars be paired with assuming that these would have to be "open" coaches to allow for dining services, and presumably from what I am gleaning from earlier comments it wouldn't necessarily be the RFO and RTO which formed part of the "Scot"

[MikeParkin65]

I think these are clever marketing by Hornby as they will also help to shift streamlined Duchesses which so far dont seem to have been flying off the shelves. I suggest those interested might want to start hunting down currently discounted blue streamliners which are looking like bargains compared to the forthcoming 6220.