LMS Coronation Scot Coaches

[Ian Hargrave]

1 hour ago, tractionman said:

 

I wonder if Hornby will package these up as a complete set? They'd make a great 'presentation box' if the whole rake was included. (Would be easier to order too rather than each coach singly...!)

 

cheers,

 

Keith

 

 

 

 

 

Now that’s as heartfelt and sensible a post as I’ve read in a long time. Chronologically,Hornby have an annoying habit of releasing coaches at different times. You are hanging around for weeks/ months on end for the missing one to finally appear or it’s released in penny numbers and sells out quickly to reappear finally when some of us have fallen off the tree.

 

I’m sure of course that production difficulties beset Hornby’s plans but in this particular case chaps can we make a plea for some really joined up delivery. A nice big box containing the complete train will do very nicely thank you.

[adb968008]

3 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

mostly found use on ex-L&Y routes in Lancashire - the prestige Manchester-Southport and Liverpool-Blackpool trains.

Ref. R.J. Essery and D. Jenkinson, The LMS Coach (Ian Allan, 1969).

Prestige and Blackpool in the same sentence ?

Are you sure ?

[rembrow]

Sorry to go off topic a bit, but with the assumption that Hornby will release these later in BR liveries, I'm hoping that while working on the 50ft and 63ft types, that they are also in the background, developing the missing 60ft chassis for the Period 3 Stanier composite- the missing link.

[TheSignalEngineer]

7 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

Loverly! Have a set on order for Shap so good to see some development on these, given the current world circumstances.

 

Wondering whether they'll have adaptable / different roof mouldings so that the vehicles might eventually be available as ordinary service vehicles?

Some of the samples shown in the Hornby pictures appear to show the roof with ordinary ventilators instead of the cowl for the full length. Hopefully a Period 3 TO and others may be well on the way.

Edited September 25, 2020 by TheSignalEngineer

[LNER4479]

Are they not the 50ft kitchen cars? They were not fitted with the pressure ventilation equipment.

 

EDIT - No! I stand corrected, having now looked again at the Hornby site. Hopefully therefore the full PV cowling is just a fitting over the normal roof arrangement. Would certainly make a lot of sense.

Edited September 25, 2020 by LNER4479

[Compound2632]

3 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Prestige and Blackpool in the same sentence ?

Are you sure ?

 

Depends how you want to read it: "prestige Manchester-Southport" and "Liverpool-Blackpool" trains? But I think that's to fail to appreciate how the dynamics of high-end commuting have changed - indeed, does it still exist at all in Lancashire? We've seen the collapse of the great regional centres to the overweaning power of the Great Wen.

[TheSignalEngineer]

10 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Depends how you want to read it: "prestige Manchester-Southport" and "Liverpool-Blackpool" trains? But I think that's to fail to appreciate how the dynamics of high-end commuting have changed - indeed, does it still exist at all in Lancashire? We've seen the collapse of the great regional centres to the overweaning power of the Great Wen.

I remember travelling on the 17.10 Manchester Victoria to Blackpool one evening in 1971. It was a 7-coach train hauled by a Class 40 and ran non-stop from Salford Central to Poulton le Fylde. Woe betide anyone who sat in the wrong place.

[Aire Head]

On 25/09/2020 at 20:33, TheSignalEngineer said:

Some of the samples shown in the Hornby pictures appear to show the roof with ordinary ventilators instead of the cowl for the full length. Hopefully a Period 3 TO and others may be well on the way.

 

This would be the most sensible thing they can do IMHO as it gives them double the bang for their book.

 

Certainly a new RTR TO would be a big step forward!

[daltonparva]

On 25/09/2020 at 17:59, Ian Hargrave said:

Now that’s as heartfelt and sensible a post as I’ve read in a long time. Chronologically,Hornby have an annoying habit of releasing coaches at different times. You are hanging around for weeks/ months on end for the missing one to finally appear or it’s released in penny numbers and sells out quickly to reappear finally when some of us have fallen off the tree.

 

I’m sure of course that production difficulties beset Hornby’s plans but in this particular case chaps can we make a plea for some really joined up delivery. A nice big box containing the complete train will do very nicely thank you.

I've got a feeling they might do the complete set, plus the Coronation loco, in a fancy wooden box. That would be a dream, the price would probably be a nightmare.

[Compound2632]

14 minutes ago, daltonparva said:

I've got a feeling they might do the complete set, plus the Coronation loco, in a fancy wooden box. That would be a dream, the price would probably be a nightmare.

 

It's a long train by most model railway standards, even if not by WCML standards of the late 30s. I imagine many people will buy only a representative selection, leaving open thirds and kitchen cars as a drag on the market: BFK/FK/RFO/RK/RTO/BTK or even BFK/RFO/RK/RTO/BTK would be a layout and wallet-friendly simplification. Can the Hornby loco pull a nine-coach train, especially around the tighter curves?

Edited September 30, 2020 by Compound2632

[Aire Head]

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

It's a long train by most model railway standards, even if not by WCML standards of the late 30s. I imagine many people will buy only a representative selection, leaving open thirds and kitchen cars as a drag on the market: BFK/FK/RFO/RK/RTO/BTK or even BFK/RFO/RK/RTO/BTK would be a layout and wallet-friendly simplification. Can the Hornby loco pull a nine-coach train, especially around the tighter curves?

 

To be honest it's the RK and TO that I'm interested in so they can leave as many of them around as they want!

[MikeParkin65]

3 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Can the Hornby loco pull a nine-coach train, especially around the tighter curves?

Both the previous and current versions of the Duchess easily haul 8 coach trains of rtr stock (including the heavy and draggy  Bachmann Mk1's) around my tightest (hidden) 30 inch curve. I can't see the full Coronation set of light and free running Hornby coaches is going to present a problem

[Robin Brasher]

It might be difficult to buy a nine coach train as it looks like people have been ordering a selection of Coronation coaches to run a shorter train.  For instance Hattons have sold out on pre-order R4961 Brake Corridor 1st, R4962 Corridor 1st, R4964 Restaurant Open 1st and R4965 Restaurant Open 3rd.  You can pre-order the others.

 

[Compound2632]

3 minutes ago, Robin Brasher said:

It might be difficult to buy a nine coach train as it looks like people have been ordering a selection of Coronation coaches to run a shorter train.  For instance Hattons have sold out on pre-order R4961 Brake Corridor 1st, R4962 Corridor 1st, R4964 Restaurant Open 1st and R4965 Restaurant Open 3rd.  You can pre-order the others.

 

As predicted.

 

On 30/09/2020 at 11:59, Compound2632 said:

It's a long train by most model railway standards, even if not by WCML standards of the late 30s. I imagine many people will buy only a representative selection, leaving open thirds and kitchen cars as a drag on the market: BFK/FK/RFO/RK/RTO/BTK or even BFK/RFO/RK/RTO/BTK would be a layout and wallet-friendly simplification. 

 

[Pete the Elaner]

They still seem to be available for pre-order on Hornby's website.

I guess they ration retailer's pre-orders?

 

I ordered mine long ago, so fingers crossed they all arrive.

[Steamport Southport]

I would have thought three packs of three would have been a good idea. As well as the individual coaches not instead of.

 

Then you could have a short set for those with very limited space, a medium set of six and a full set. Not perfect but it would make it easier to buy them.

 

 

Jason

[Robin Brasher]

When Hornby first made the Coronation coaches in 1992 I think they were only available as a set of three in the Coronation Scot train set.  Hornby made the individual Coronation coaches later but until recently they made them as R4906 which was a set of three. I think it is an excellent idea for Hornby to produce sets of three Coronation coaches so people can build up a train of six to nine coaches. The picture shows my R836 Coronation Scot train set dating from the 1990s which makes an effective display with just three coaches.

[sandwich station]

1 hour ago, Robin Brasher said:

When Hornby first made the Coronation coaches in 1992 I think they were only available as a set of three in the Coronation Scot train set.  Hornby made the individual Coronation coaches later but until recently they made them as R4906 which was a set of three. I think it is an excellent idea for Hornby to produce sets of three Coronation coaches so people can build up a train of six to nine coaches. The picture shows my R836 Coronation Scot train set dating from the 1990s which makes an effective display with just three coaches.

 

The Coronation Scot coaches were first available individually from around 1983 to 1987 before making a return in the 90's.

[Ruffnut Thorston]

We have the train set, with the Ringfield motor tender drive loco, and an extra brake coach in its own box...

 

So, yes, separate coaches were indeed available.

 

Of course, these coaches were just the standard Hornby Railways LMS coaches in a different livery.

 

Not bespoke models of the actual coaches, and no catering vehicles...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 13, 2020 by Sarahagain
More added

[Robin Brasher]

While waiting for the new Coronation Scot coaches there is an opportunity to see what improvements we can hope for to the earlier models.  The previous models are dimensionally accurate and the livery looks correct.  My brake 3rd coach from the R836 train set is 5792 from Coronation Scot set 2.  Hornby also made the brake 3rd 5812 and brake 1st 5052 from set 1.  I also have corridor 1st 1069 from set 1 that Hornby made in 2001 and again from 2004-2005.

 

The brake 3rd has the correct number of windows whereas the corridor 1st has seven large windows whereas it should have five and a half. Neither coach has the correct roof pressure ventilators,  the windows are recessed and the sliding ventilators should be blue rather than aluminium.  The corridor 1st has only three first class compartments with arm rests and no curtains. I hope that Hornby will correct these errors but meanwhile these old coaches make a reasonable representation of part of the Coronation Scot when viewed from a distance. The metal wheels Hornby fitted after 2001 are a considerable improvement on the plastic wheels with white rims.

[Compound2632]

Less said about the bogies and underframes the better.

 

In fact that applies to the whole 80s monstrosity. 

[Steamport Southport]

1970s. They came out with the Duchess in 1977. Albeit in maroon.

 

Never mind. If they released a LNWR George The Fifth, you'll still get someone comparing it to their Bassett Lowke one great grandad bought when he was in the trenches. 

[Robin Brasher]

I think that the Hornby Dublo Stanier coaches have not been surpassed until Hornby made their recent models although the Mainline Stanier coaches were not bad.

 

I also think that the old Hornby Stanier coaches look better in Coronation Scot livery and they sold well.

 

Judging by the numbers of pre-orders for the new Hornby Coronation coaches it looks like people are prepared to pay in anticipation of accurate models even though no-one has seen the finished products.

[Opelsi]

I had no idea there was a brake 1st as 5052!

 

Got a rake of 6 of the original blue coaches, Namely: 5792 / 1069 / 1070 / 1071 / 1075 / 5812

They look great behind R2206 Coronation from 2001.

 

However, the new full rake will look even better behind my newly acquired R3857 Coronation +  R3623 Queen Elizabeth.

 

Is 7 streamliners too many?   

[InterCity80s]

33 minutes ago, Opelsi said:

Is 7 streamliners too many?   

Well, they made 10 24 of them didn't they? So...

 

Edited October 15, 2020 by InterCity80s
Got my numbers totally wrong.