LMS Coronation Scot Coaches

[Pete the Elaner]

1 hour ago, Cor-onGRT4 said:

The livery samples are really eye catching, and a real surprise, they are with ligthing looks astonishing.

Can't wait till my 9 coach train arrive in March

 

They look nice. I was not aware of the lighting but it looks good & it sounds like they have taken care to create a good effect rather than make the lights too bright.

One thing which would be a bonus (& easy for Hornby to achieve) is more discrete couplings. Since many modellers are likely to run these as a set & they just plug in to pockets, this should be quite an easy item to pop into a detail pack.

 

Hornby remark that "they look splendid paired with our matching streamlined Coronation Class ‘Princess Alexandra’."

While I agree with this, it is not an entirely authentic combination; They should really have single chimney loco.

This may sound a little pedantic but I have a liking for the single chimney versions & it is one of my favourite classes, otherwise I would probably be oblivious to the fact.

[phil-b259]

2 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said:

 

 

One thing which would be a bonus (& easy for Hornby to achieve) is more discrete couplings. Since many modellers are likely to run these as a set & they just plug in to pockets, this should be quite an easy item to pop into a detail pack.

 

 

 

But how many modellers will have the space to keep them permanently coupled? That is the problem with the Bachmann Vac & Steam heat pipe coupler the include with their Mark 1s, you have to turn the coach rake on its side to split it.

 

Far better to have one you can split apart easily - like the 'Roco clone' couplers Hornby have included in all their super detailed rolling stock to date (if these turn out to be too long then you can mix and match them with the genuine Roco versions that are a bit shorter)

Edited November 27, 2020 by phil-b259

[guarded]

No Passengers though-wouldn't you love some people in these things?

 

LNER Coronation for 2022 please(no typo just acceptance)with the Beavertail coach.And some Passengers.

[MGR Hooper!]

5 minutes ago, guarded said:

No Passengers though - wouldn't you love some people in these things?

 

LNER Coronation for 2022 please (no typo just acceptance) with the Beavertail coach. And some Passengers.

Sorry, but adding passengers would drive up the cost as you'll be looking at a few hundred hand-painted individuals that have to again be fitted by hand. You'll also run the risk of having cheap quality figures added inside.

[robertcwp]

On 27/11/2020 at 15:54, phil-b259 said:

 

But how many modellers will have the space to keep them permanently coupled? That is the problem with the Bachmann Vac & Steam heat pipe coupler the include with their Mark 1s, you have to turn the coach rake on its side to split it.

 

Far better to have one you can split apart easily - like the 'Roco clone' couplers Hornby have included in all their super detailed rolling stock to date (if these turn out to be too long then you can mix and match them with the genuine Roco versions that are a bit shorter)

Or use the Hunt Elite magnetic couplings, which come in various lengths.

[Clearwater]

On 27/11/2020 at 12:32, County of Yorkshire said:

I’m surprised these haven’t attracted more comment since this morning’s Engine Shed blog, as they look incredible. I fundamentally cannot justify any as a post-war GWR modeller, but I will certainly admire them when I see them in the flesh at my next exhibition (whenever that is!). 
 

I must also say that these augur well should Hornby turn their premium coach attentions west... GWR Centenaries or Ocean Saloons anyone?

 

CoY 

 

much as I’d like to see a GWR set from Hornby, I think that if the Coronation Scot is a commercial success that they will turn their attention East to either the Coronation or Silver Jubilee sets.  Sadly more iconic than the mixed rakes prevalent, CRE excepted, on the GWR and tie well to the A4s they can knock out on largely amortised toolings.  
 

I’d expect Hornby already know the answer as to whether the Coronation Scot is a commercial success as they’ll have their own and retailer’s pre order data.  If I were them, I’d go for the silver jubilee as can sell either silver or garter blue A4s to run with it.  You could do versions of the coaches to run in the 50s as well with, oh, A2s...

Edited November 28, 2020 by Clearwater
Autocorrect error

[Synch]

I'm hopeful the 2021 range will include some regular service versions of the vehicles that were used as such, very hopeful for a regular LMS catering core set!

[Aire Head]

6 hours ago, Synch said:

I'm hopeful the 2021 range will include some regular service versions of the vehicles that were used as such, very hopeful for a regular LMS catering core set!

 

Don't we all!

[TheSignalEngineer]

8 hours ago, Synch said:

I'm hopeful the 2021 range will include some regular service versions of the vehicles that were used as such, very hopeful for a regular LMS catering core set!

Some of the early EP photos showed the conventional roof vents without the cowling so here's hoping for a D1904 open third.

[Robin Brasher]

Returning to the subject of passengers I would like to see a post about how to dismantle the Coronation coaches so we can fit out own passengers.  Sixty years ago Peco produced interiors for the Kitmaster coaches which included passengers with some reading newspapers, luggage racks and carriage prints and these continued to be available until around 2000.  Tri-ang also produced passengers and waiting staff for their Pullmans.  Now we have got illuminated coaches it makes sense to have interior details. We don't need hundreds of passengers and Bachmann and Preisser already make suitable passengers that probably cost less than £10 per set. Bachmann already produce some coaches with passengers so it must be economic to produce them.

[robertcwp]

5 hours ago, Robin Brasher said:

Returning to the subject of passengers I would like to see a post about how to dismantle the Coronation coaches so we can fit out own passengers.  Sixty years ago Peco produced interiors for the Kitmaster coaches which included passengers with some reading newspapers, luggage racks and carriage prints and these continued to be available until around 2000.  Tri-ang also produced passengers and waiting staff for their Pullmans.  Now we have got illuminated coaches it makes sense to have interior details. We don't need hundreds of passengers and Bachmann and Preisser already make suitable passengers that probably cost less than £10 per set. Bachmann already produce some coaches with passengers so it must be economic to produce them.

They might well be similar in construction to other Hornby carriages. There is a lug at each corner which is very brittle. Normally, these need to be prised inwards then there is a big lug half way along. Separation is between underframe and body. It's most easily achieved with the bogies off. These are normally clip fit and can be removed fairly easily with a screwdriver. 

[robertcwp]

5 hours ago, TheSignalEngineer said:

Some of the early EP photos showed the conventional roof vents without the cowling so here's hoping for a D1904 open third.

I hope so too. BR liveries on the kitchen cars and the other Coronation Scot carriages would also be good. Hornby have the relevant information, or at least they did. Hopefully Paul Isles passed it on to someone before he moved to Accurascale.

[TheSignalEngineer]

4 minutes ago, robertcwp said:

I hope so too. BR liveries on the kitchen cars and the other Coronation Scot carriages would also be good. Hornby have the relevant information, or at least they did. Hopefully Paul Isles passed it on to someone before he moved to Accurascale.

I managed to have a conversation about coaching stock among other things several years ago when he was manning the Hornby stand at an exhibition. We talked about gaps I thought there were in the RTR market which in my view included catering vehicles and Open stock from the big four era The LMS in particular had hundreds of them some of which lasted forty years and four liveries.

He said to watch this space, a few months later the SR Maunsell diner was announced. Finally we have some LMS vehicles coming which could form the basis of a spin-off to their opens and dining stock from the 1930s almost to the end of steam.

[robertcwp]

5 hours ago, TheSignalEngineer said:

I managed to have a conversation about coaching stock among other things several years ago when he was manning the Hornby stand at an exhibition. We talked about gaps I thought there were in the RTR market which in my view included catering vehicles and Open stock from the big four era The LMS in particular had hundreds of them some of which lasted forty years and four liveries.

He said to watch this space, a few months later the SR Maunsell diner was announced. Finally we have some LMS vehicles coming which could form the basis of a spin-off to their opens and dining stock from the 1930s almost to the end of steam.

In their final years, the kitchen cars were often paired with Mark 1 48-seat open second and open firsts, both of which are already in the Hornby range. The Bachmann porthole open first would be a good match too.

[26power]

On 28/11/2020 at 22:33, robertcwp said:

Or use the Hunt Elite magnetic couplings, which come in various lengths.

Having not heard of these I searched online and found:

https://westhillwagonworks.co.uk/hunt-couplings-new-c-2/
 

Not sure how I have not been aware of these before, or the range of 3D printed parts they supply!  Maybe I missed reference to them in the small suppliers sub topic?

[stovepipe]

They were trialled simultaneously by a number of YouTube model railway group channels around 9-12 months ago, to near universal acclaim. I can't recall seeing them advertised much elsewhere.

[truffy]

8 hours ago, 26power said:

Not sure how I have not been aware of these before, or the range of 3D printed parts they supply!  Maybe I missed reference to them in the small suppliers sub topic?

 

8 hours ago, stovepipe said:

They were trialled simultaneously by a number of YouTube model railway group channels around 9-12 months ago, to near universal acclaim. I can't recall seeing them advertised much elsewhere.

 

Including this one from Hornby Magazine:

 

 

Not sure whether anything ever made it to the magazine itself, I rarely read it.

[Compound2632]

Lego had something very similar fifty years ago:

 

 

Looking at the Hunt Elite coupling, I think the source of inspiration is evident!

[No Decorum]

Impressive. I like the close coupling and their unobtrusiveness. The video brings out the slop in Hornby’s tension locks. Kadees fishtails, whilst available in four lengths to achieve the closest coupling possible with particular stock on particular layouts laid to different minimum curves, also have slop. The need to join A to B Hunt couplings might be a limitation on layouts where a lot of shunting takes place. What no-one seems to observe, though, is that Hunt couplings are not automatic, whereas tension locks and Kadees are.

[Pete the Elaner]

12 minutes ago, No Decorum said:

Impressive. I like the close coupling and their unobtrusiveness. The video brings out the slop in Hornby’s tension locks. Kadees fishtails, whilst available in four lengths to achieve the closest coupling possible with particular stock on particular layouts laid to different minimum curves, also have slop. The need to join A to B Hunt couplings might be a limitation on layouts where a lot of shunting takes place. What no-one seems to observe, though, is that Hunt couplings are not automatic, whereas tension locks and Kadees are.

A retailer showed me a prototype for a competitor (not available yet & I cannot remember the manufacturer).

It had both poles on each coupling end, so was unidirectional & it allegedly more robust than Hunt, which was claimed to be too brittle.

These are worth keeping a look-out for.

 

It is normal of progress though: the first product of a type is soon refined. If the original manufacturer doesn't release an updated & improved version, somebody else will.

[robertcwp]

1 hour ago, Pete the Elaner said:

A retailer showed me a prototype for a competitor (not available yet & I cannot remember the manufacturer).

It had both poles on each coupling end, so was unidirectional & it allegedly more robust than Hunt, which was claimed to be too brittle.

These are worth keeping a look-out for.

 

It is normal of progress though: the first product of a type is soon refined. If the original manufacturer doesn't release an updated & improved version, somebody else will.

The Hunt Elite couplings work either way round, they are not pole specific. More types are being added. A different product was I think reviewed in one of the recent magazines.

[miles73128]

2 hours ago, robertcwp said:

The Hunt Elite couplings work either way round, they are not pole specific. More types are being added. A different product was I think reviewed in one of the recent magazines.

I’ve installed over 400 on my stock. Not had any issues. Transformational. For me the biggest benefit is that it forms a rigid bar, so CCMs work properly and with a HST push, you don’t get couplings overriding and derailments. 

[apollanaut]

On 04/12/2020 at 06:31, miles73128 said:

I’ve installed over 400 on my stock. Not had any issues. Transformational. For me the biggest benefit is that it forms a rigid bar, so CCMs work properly and with a HST push, you don’t get couplings overriding and derailments. 

Thanks for sharing your experience with these couplings. I remember reading a review when they first came out, but was put-off when the reviewer had doubts about the magnets' ability to hold together under the weight of a lengthy express  or long goods train. I note you have used them on a HST, so was wondering if you had tested them with other medium to long trains (say, eight coaches plus or equivalent)?

[miles73128]

8 hours ago, apollanaut said:

Thanks for sharing your experience with these couplings. I remember reading a review when they first came out, but was put-off when the reviewer had doubts about the magnets' ability to hold together under the weight of a lengthy express  or long goods train. I note you have used them on a HST, so was wondering if you had tested them with other medium to long trains (say, eight coaches plus or equivalent)?

Hi

Yes, I’ve had 12 coaches and goods train of 18 (mix of limpets and seacows/urchins. And a dual powered Brighton Belle. So far I’ve not had a single separation. 
Regards 

[Ravenser]

On 27/11/2020 at 15:54, phil-b259 said:

 

But how many modellers will have the space to keep them permanently coupled? That is the problem with the Bachmann Vac & Steam heat pipe coupler the include with their Mark 1s, you have to turn the coach rake on its side to split it.

 

Far better to have one you can split apart easily - like the 'Roco clone' couplers Hornby have included in all their super detailed rolling stock to date (if these turn out to be too long then you can mix and match them with the genuine Roco versions that are a bit shorter)

 

Since the thread has wandered onto couplings -

 

The Bachmann NEM plastic steampipe has one great virtue: it can be used to couple a Bachmann Mk1 (which has it's NEM pocket set at the wrong height) - to a coach which has the NEM pocket at the correct height

 

I run two coach sets , and the steampipe is used as an internal coupling within one or two of the sets. This means (as a Kadee user) that I only have to butcher one NEM pocket to fit a Kadee  (That involves hacking at the pocket then jamming a no.5 head with the spade end filed back into the battered pocket with superglue. At that point you will not be fitting any other couplings in that pocket in the future..... (Tip was owed to someone on here..)

 

The Hachette Mk1 has the same issue but slightly worse. I tried fitting a Keen Systems close-coupler with pocket meant for the Bachmann Mk1 , but had to file away at the resin to get it to fit . A nasty job with H&S implications. It was bad enough that I gave up on the second end and just used a Bachmann steampipe within the 2 car set

 

The Hunt couplings would likewise be fine within a fixed set of coaches

 

As far as Robin Brasher's reference to the Peco card interiors for Kitmaster Mk1s is concerned, the passengers are just flat printed card, which is not really acceptable

 

It would be good to see these Hornby "specials" in regular postwar BR liveries . And if Hornby do make an LNER streamliner set , then those could be issued in BR liveries as they were used post war as general service vehicles in ECML express sets. The problem, I suspect, is that many of them were articulated twins: not cheap for the modeller, and needing more complicated handling. Has anyone ever done an articulated twin RTR??

 

Edited December 9, 2020 by Ravenser