LMS Coronation Scot Coaches

[stovepipe]

To be fair Hattons do have quite a bit of form in this area - overestimating their eventual allocation. And on their side it must be quite a challenge to decide how many of the pre-orders will fall by the wayside for whatever reason - and I guess Hornby have their view on that when reviewing the total number of pre-orders from all the model shop returns.

[zoomer1979]

Delivery of four coaches today. First impressions are good, no bits falling off, some very interesting close couplings and gangway connectors as extras. Rest of coaches on Monday. Does anyone want pictures?

 

Neil.

[Black 5 Bear]

9 minutes ago, zoomer1979 said:

Delivery of four coaches today. First impressions are good, no bits falling off, some very interesting close couplings and gangway connectors as extras. Rest of coaches on Monday. Does anyone want pictures?

 

Neil.

Yes please if you could.

[zoomer1979]

So in this package today, got the BFK, BTK, RK and FK. So that's 3 57' and 1 50'. Not going to get to run them until the end of the month, but they look great, the separate details on the roof are particularly well done.

[Chamby]

11 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said:

& also the spat between Hattons & Bachmann. Hornby were not involved in that so it does make me wonder what goes on in private.

We are indeed in a hobby but to these companies, it is a business.

 

Hatton’s and Bachmann I can understand (given that the Class 66 was a blatant ‘tanks on your lawn’ moment). 

 

Hornby appear to be tightly controlling discounting through their T&C’s, decisively cutting out retailers who continue to discount more than Hornby are prepared to allow, and now appear to be deliberately keeping supply of new models short of the demand, so there are not any surplus stocks hanging around that warrant discounting to shift.  

 

Trouble is, it’s also changing how the whole market works.  In a situation like this, there are unforeseen consequences as retailer and customer behaviours adapt.  First impact... Pre-ordering is the new normal as retailers try to manage customer demand.  Consequence: Widespread customer frustration has occured, trying to get to grips with the new purchasing environment and the disappearance of ‘off the shelf’ availability for desirable new products.  Second impact: FOMO (fear of missing out) is now beginning to drive new customer behaviours, such as pre-ordering across multiple retailers to spread the real risk of cancelled pre-orders.  Retailers must be pulling their hair out trying to meet the demand whilst the manufacturer is shorting their deliveries.  

 

Interesting times... and more to come.  What’s next... those who have multiple pre-orders fulfilled putting their surplus stock on e-bay, at inflated prices?  Retail prices escalating even more?

[drt7uk]

47 minutes ago, Chamby said:

 

Hatton’s and Bachmann I can understand (given that the Class 66 was a blatant ‘tanks on your lawn’ moment). 

 

Hornby appear to be tightly controlling discounting through their T&C’s, decisively cutting out retailers who continue to discount more than Hornby are prepared to allow, and now appear to be deliberately keeping supply of new models short of the demand, so there are not any surplus stocks hanging around that warrant discounting to shift.  

 

Trouble is, it’s also changing how the whole market works.  In a situation like this, there are unforeseen consequences as retailer and customer behaviours adapt.  First impact... Pre-ordering is the new normal as retailers try to manage customer demand.  Consequence: Widespread customer frustration has occured, trying to get to grips with the new purchasing environment and the disappearance of ‘off the shelf’ availability for desirable new products.  Second impact: FOMO (fear of missing out) is now beginning to drive new customer behaviours, such as pre-ordering across multiple retailers to spread the real risk of cancelled pre-orders.  Retailers must be pulling their hair out trying to meet the demand whilst the manufacturer is shorting their deliveries.  

 

Interesting times... and more to come.  What’s next... those who have multiple pre-orders fulfilled putting their surplus stock on e-bay, at inflated prices?  Retail prices escalating even more?

 

Wow hadn't even thought about people putting in multiple pre-orders. All a bit silly, Hornby, Bachmann, Hattons and Rails should sit down and work out their problems like grown ups because this doesn't help anyone. Maybe we need to move to paying deposits for pre-orders? I'm be up for that if it meant I actually got what I ordered, and presumably that would help the manufacturers and retailers get a firmer idea of numbers. I've paid a few deposits for a few new locos (Caledonian, SECR D Class) and I think it's fair enough for Rails/Locomotion to have asked for that.

 

Thankfully Kernow have some still in stock if anyone is struggling. Though it won't come for another month (thanks again Hornby, legends!). Kernow have assured me that the order will be fulfiled, and actually has saved me about a tenner so not all bad, though could've done without the faff...fingers crossed.

[drt7uk]

1 hour ago, zoomer1979 said:

So in this package today, got the BFK, BTK, RK and FK. So that's 3 57' and 1 50'. Not going to get to run them until the end of the month, but they look great, the separate details on the roof are particularly well done.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the photos! Out of interest does it say whether the close couplings work on tighter (2nd radius) curves?

 

[Hilux5972]

8 hours ago, drt7uk said:

 

Thanks for the photos! Out of interest does it say whether the close couplings work on tighter (2nd radius) curves?

 

They are the standard roco type close couplings Hornby have been using for years now so no reason why they wouldn’t work down to 2nd radius. 

Edited April 10, 2021 by Hilux5972
Spelling correction

[adb968008]

10 hours ago, Chamby said:

Interesting times... and more to come.  What’s next... those who have multiple pre-orders fulfilled putting their surplus stock on e-bay, at inflated prices?  Retail prices escalating even more?

Ive found myself doing this a couple of times.

its crazy I cannot pre-order with confidence, but I have confidence to consider multiple pre-orders to not consider it a risk.

 

To me this is a classic stock “bubble” conditions.

 

ive only one retailer Ive found I can fully trust, Derails. If ive pre-ordered elsewhere and found it too late to move to derails, ive had to double up and dispose on a couple of “must haves” knowing that if I miss out its going to hurt, but by doubling up, it actually reduces the pain as it knocks a few quid off what I've wanted to keep, but conversely hurts someone else.

I have  also found several “sold out”  retailers, actually holding back stock and cashing in on must have models after release by going way above rrp.
 

The problem is not everything is “Must have”, and against increasing prices, the “B-List” for many just gets longer, and inevitably casualties get dropped off, and someone is left holding stock.

In normal times, a bigger discount will shift them, but against huge volumes being produced across a highly excited market by manufacturers, people have to make choices, and so the pile grows on some whilst cherries are picked on others.

 

if confidence suddenly wobbles a lot of people will walk, leaving a lot of stock unsold overnight.. Weve been here before with Lima, when the bubble burst there was a mass frenzy of cheap stock, but Lima never really recovered, this time I suspect the problem will split over many retailers, and after cherry picking sales, it’ll be the volumes of dud stock that will be the financial drain that determines who has deep enough pockets to survive.

It is likely manufacturers are cogniscent to this, and so are limiting what they make, that is in-turn creating this demand bubble, that is driving up prices

Supply needs to be close to demand, excess demand is just as damaging as excess supply.
 

 

 

 

Edited April 10, 2021 by adb968008

[phil-b259]

9 hours ago, drt7uk said:

 

Wow hadn't even thought about people putting in multiple pre-orders. All a bit silly, Hornby, Bachmann, Hattons and Rails should sit down and work out their problems like grown ups because this doesn't help anyone.

 

 

I think the body called the "Competition and Markets Authority" might have something to say about that!

 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/tell-the-cma-about-a-competition-or-market-problem#businesses-agreeing-not-to-compete-with-one-another-cartels

 

Retailers and manufacturers 'sitting down to work out their problems' is branded 'collusion' and 'forming a cartel', both of which apparently do great harm to consumers so are illegal under UK law.

 

The fact that we are talking about something of a nieche hobby where the demand simply isn't there for vast quantities of duplicated, triplicated, etc models rather than makers / retailers of baked beans cuts no ice and LARGE FINES will still be dished out.

Edited April 10, 2021 by phil-b259

[drt7uk]

8 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

 

I think the body called the "Competition and Markets Authority" might have something to say about that!

 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/tell-the-cma-about-a-competition-or-market-problem#businesses-agreeing-not-to-compete-with-one-another-cartels

 

Retailers and manufacturers 'sitting down to work out their problems' is branded 'collusion' and 'forming a cartel', both of which apparently do great harm to consumers so are illegal under UK law.

 

The fact that we are talking about something of a nieche hobby where the demand simply isn't there for vast quantities of duplicated, triplicated, etc models rather than makers / retailers of baked beans cuts no ice and LARGE FINES will still be dished out.

 

I'm well aware how the CMA works, but thanks. I just meant they need to grow up a bit and work through there differences for the health of the hobby. 

[adb968008]

Given the amount of duplication going on, I think the hobby is a long way from collusion.

 

I don't think the hobby has ever been so competitive.

 

But remember the competition isn't feeding over us the consumer.. they are trying to out do each other and influence the retailer... for the most part, its the retailer who is their customer.. not us.

 

Weve been used to bleeding heart retailer stories over the years, but covid opening aside, Ive not seen any outpouring of grief for a while about margins, terms and trading... A quiet trade voice must mean they arent hungry.

 

 

Edited April 10, 2021 by adb968008

[drt7uk]

52 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

ive only one retailer Ive found I can fully trust, Derails.

 

 

 

 

 

I've heard good things about Derails, will definitely preorder with them in the future. Also note they take a deposit which is more reassuring too. Sadly they have sold out their allocation in this case, Kernow have told me they won't outsell their allocation so will just have to keep my fingers crossed.. 

Edited April 10, 2021 by drt7uk

[adb968008]

14 minutes ago, drt7uk said:

 

I've heard good things about Derails, will definitely preorder with them in the future. Also note they take a deposit which is more reassuring too. Sadly they have sold out their allocation in this case, Kernow have told me they won't outsell their allocation so will just have to keep my fingers crossed.. 

i reckon your safe with Kernow.

Never had a bad time there.

 

My rake of Coronations is due from Kernow

 

The Hattons/Rails fall outs definitely has a select few winners when it comes to trade, but I wonder how much it is helping the wider/smaller retailers ?

Edited April 10, 2021 by adb968008

[maico]

14 hours ago, zoomer1979 said:

So in this package today, got the BFK, BTK, RK and FK. So that's 3 57' and 1 50'. Not going to get to run them until the end of the month, but they look great, the separate details on the roof are particularly well done.

 

Did they end upcoming with led lighting? Kernow and the rrp say no, and parts of the Hornby website say yes!

Edited April 10, 2021 by maico

[Pre Grouping fan]

14 minutes ago, maico said:

 

Did they end upcoming with led lighting? Kernow and the rrp say no, and parts of the Hornby website say yes!

 

I'm sure Hornby have shown lighting in the engine shed blog posts about these recently. 

[zoomer1979]

1 hour ago, maico said:

 

Did they end upcoming with led lighting? Kernow and the rrp say no, and parts of the Hornby website say yes!

Yes, they all have lighting. Interestingly the pickups on the RK have caused it to lock an axle as the wiper catches on a dimple on the inside of one wheel. Have bent it back in the meantime. Got more coaches coming today it turns out.

 

Edit: turns out it's just the RTO today.

 

Neil.

Edited April 10, 2021 by zoomer1979
Later development, not worth another post.

[Pete the Elaner]

25 minutes ago, Pre Grouping fan said:

 

I'm sure Hornby have shown lighting in the engine shed blog posts about these recently. 

 

Hornby mentioned that they took care to not make the lighting too bright, so maybe it is not obvious in a well lit room?

It would be nice to have an owner take a close look to answer this though.

 

Edit:

The previous post answered this when I posted this.

Edited April 10, 2021 by Pete the Elaner
Addenum

[zoomer1979]

Got the track out again and put the lights on. Nice and subtle.

[wainwright1]

Lighting looks good, but they definitely need some passengers. Looks like a ghost train at the moment.

 

I think that  this has been discussed before.

The set of coaches painted red and gold which were sent out for the USA tour. Were some of them the same types as these ? it would appear that at least the brake coach had differences, having no corridor connection and the gold stripes shaped downward on the end similar to those on the locomotive. So not possible for Hornby to do without additional tooling

 

Ray

Edited April 11, 2021 by wainwright1

[adb968008]

1 hour ago, wainwright1 said:

Lighting looks good, but they definitely need some passengers. Looks like a ghost train at the moment.

 

I think that  this has been discussed before.

The set of coaches painted red and gold which were sent out for the USA tour. Were some of them the same types as these ? it would appear that at least the brake coach had differences, having no corridor connection and the gold stripes shaped downward on the end similar to those on the locomotive. So not possible for Hornby to do without additional tooling

 

Ray

The 1939 USA tour set was completely different.

 

Though if the blue set is viable commercially, there is no reason I couldnt imagine the 1939 set as not being viable either.. whilst it didnt see use in the UK in red/gold, it would appeal to the US market, as it did exist, was very high profile and in BR service saw regular use in rakes until withdrawal.

 

That said, the temptation and bias towards LNER in Hornbys range, i’d be leaning towards Hornby tooling something a little more silver grey to match the silver A4’s following these.

Edited April 11, 2021 by adb968008

[sncf231e]

On 09/04/2021 at 23:29, zoomer1979 said:

So in this package today, got the BFK, BTK, RK and FK. So that's 3 57' and 1 50'. Not going to get to run them until the end of the month, but they look great,

They indeed look great. See a comparison of your picture with a picture of an 0 gauge MTH coach:

Regards

Fred

[LittleRedTrain]

How does the lighting work with DCC? Does it have a rectifier in the coach to provide suitable DC to the lighting?

Hattons haven't cancelled my pre-order (yet) so hoping that it might show up sometime next week.

[zoomer1979]

3 hours ago, sncf231e said:

They indeed look great. See a comparison of your picture with a picture of an 0 gauge MTH coach:

Regards

Fred

Nice to compare, only things I see are window bars and curtain representation. Maybe slightly different equipment on the underframe. Neil.

[sncf231e]

I have not seen a Hornby Coronation running yet, so here is my 0 gauge version:

 

Regards

Fred