LMS Coronation Scot Coaches

[No Decorum]

13 hours ago, Steam here! said:

No Decorum, you mentioned the machine gun holes, do you mean the two front holes between the buffers?

If so, that for the steps that come in the detail pack, hope that helps.

I’m talking about the large holes on the nose just above the stripes, where the handles for opening the doors are inserted. They have been mentioned quite a lot and rather spoil the appearance of the front.

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/513706/hornby_r3857_class_8p_streamlined_coronation_4_6_2_6220_coronation_in_lms_coronation_blue/stockdetail.aspx 

[No Decorum]

12 hours ago, Steam here! said:

Well folks, I've just done the trial and error with the suitable LMS steam locos and the following failed:

 

Bachmann LMS Jinty

Bachmann Midland 3F (LMS livery)

Hornby 3F S&DJR livery

Hornby 5mt "Black 5".

 

Only "Coronation" could set off from the bottom of the gradient and keep going.

I know it may not be accurate, but I may as well get "Coronation" to be the "Coronation Scot" train's pilot as well as the express.

Its a compromise I can live with.

I'm also pleased with the close couplings and the extended corrodor connectors, creates a more acceptable gap when on a straight line.

Not sure about the cornering though?

I’ve struck a minor glitch. I have five of the coaches, with the remaining four reserved until my credit card resets. (One of the benefits of having a sympathetic retailer.) I was putting the five away to await the arrival of their companions when I discovered that the kitchen cars don’t fit into their boxes with the extended gangways fitted. It’s a bit of a nuisance but at least it’s only the kitchen cars.

[DrStroganoff]

Oh dear,  last night I managed to snag my t-shirt on the end of the rake, and pulled the whole set crashing to the floor (apart from the loco thank goodness!).   

Just wanted to report that they are surprisingly robust !   Only damage was one set of steps, and 2 bent buffers which bent back into place just fine.    Phew.

Now to rip up that carriage siding at the edge of the baseboard....

 

Edited May 11, 2021 by DrStroganoff

[atom3624]

Time for a bit of protective fencing - could still keep that siding - they're like ladies' handbags - more you have, more you put in them!!

 

[drt7uk]

Can I ask if any of you folks use the larger front bogie on the newer Coronation Scot locomotive, and if so which radius points and curves you use?

 

I'm planning a new layout and wondering which points to get that would be suitable with the larger front wheels - are Hornby's normal right / left hand points OK or will I need their Express points?

 

And does it work on 2nd radius curves or will I need 3rd radius?

 

I've asked this of Hornby direct but their customer service guy replied saying he didn't know that it comes with the larger front bogie included(!), so haven't been able to get an answer from them as yet...

 

Thank you

Edited May 11, 2021 by drt7uk

[drt7uk]

11 hours ago, drt7uk said:

Can I ask if any of you folks use the larger front bogie on the newer Coronation Scot locomotive, and if so which radius points and curves you use?

 

I'm planning a new layout and wondering which points to get that would be suitable with the larger front wheels - are Hornby's normal right / left hand points OK or will I need their Express points?

 

And does it work on 2nd radius curves or will I need 3rd radius?

 

I've asked this of Hornby direct but their customer service guy replied saying he didn't know that it comes with the larger front bogie included(!), so haven't been able to get an answer from them as yet...

 

Thank you

 

Got an answer back from Hornby:

 

Thank you for your email, I forwarded your email onto the head of Hornby development who has replied as follows: 

 

The flanged wheelset is for display only. The larger bogie wheels are also for display only. This wheelset is the correct diameter for this locomotive. But we fit slightly smaller wheels to the locomotive during manufacture so the wheels clear the bodywork when going through points etc. If the customer is planning on using this locomotive through 2nd radius curves or over express points he will need to use the wheelset the model is originally fitted with.

 

So there we go!

[MikeParkin65]

1 hour ago, drt7uk said:

 

Got an answer back from Hornby:

 

Thank you for your email, I forwarded your email onto the head of Hornby development who has replied as follows: 

 

The flanged wheelset is for display only. The larger bogie wheels are also for display only. This wheelset is the correct diameter for this locomotive. But we fit slightly smaller wheels to the locomotive during manufacture so the wheels clear the bodywork when going through points etc. If the customer is planning on using this locomotive through 2nd radius curves or over express points he will need to use the wheelset the model is originally fitted with.

 

So there we go!

The larger bogie wheels supplied by Hornby are significantly overscale in any case. My Duchesses are all of the unstreamlined variety but I have fitted Alan Gibson replacements bogie wheels that improve the look of the front end. I'm not sure if you would have clearance problems with these on a streamliner but they are smaller than the Hornby wheels and have a narrower flange. For a blue loco you'd need to paint them as well of course. 

[MikeParkin65]

Gibson wheels 

[Steam here!]

On 09/05/2021 at 22:53, atom3624 said:

I noticed the cam effect of the couplings around curves - at least they're not too close!!

 

Al.

Ah Al, that was one of my concerns, I heard of buffer locking, regarding with experiments of Kadees. I have too admit the Coronation Scot coaches on a long straight peice of track do look reasonably close and I'm happy to accept this (bear in mind these are now fitted with the extended door ends and the close couplings for fixed rakes that come in the accessory pack).

As for the curve, they are on Hornby 2nd radius, I've got some spare 3rd and 4th radius track to hand, so will see how they look on them.

Edited May 14, 2021 by Steam here!
Missed out some detail.

[atom3624]

My 'on the garage floor' temporary track uses 4th radius only on the main runs - nothing special - and if anything that cam effect over-compensates - gaps look too big!

 

Al.

[Steam here!]

On 10/05/2021 at 08:22, No Decorum said:

I’m talking about the large holes on the nose just above the stripes, where the handles for opening the doors are inserted. They have been mentioned quite a lot and rather spoil the appearance of the front.

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/513706/hornby_r3857_class_8p_streamlined_coronation_4_6_2_6220_coronation_in_lms_coronation_blue/stockdetail.aspx

I see what you mean now No Decorum, regarding the front handles on the smoke box door. I took some photos last night and I don't think they look too bad, I suppose the holes could have a smaller diameter, but would reauire some extra work. (A step too far for me).

Was it the same on the previous tooling locos?

[Steam here!]

Cheers Al, thanks for letting me know, I see what you mean, I might do some more experimenting.

 

No Decorum, it sounds as if the ice block packaging may need modifying (I will have make a hole in each end, file it to create a smoothe edge and then try and if I can get the packaging to shut tight once more).

 

 

[No Decorum]

4 minutes ago, Steam here! said:

I see what you mean now No Decorum, regarding the front handles on the smoke box door. I took some photos last night and I don't think they look too bad, I suppose the holes could have a smaller diameter, but would reauire some extra work. (A step too far for me).

Was it the same on the previous tooling locos?

This Hornby model is a bit of a curate’s egg. The lining is in some respects exquisitely done, with the silver stripes neatly edged in dark blue. However, on earlier models, Hornby succeeded in bringing the stripes to a point on the nose, which isn’t the case on the latest model. As for the holes, I don’t think the earlier model suffered from them but I’m not certain.

 

I’d be curious to know if you have tried to fit the flanged trailing wheels. I had no trouble fitting them to the Hornby Princess (and bought a second as a result) but I had to hack a flangeway into a cross strut on the trailing truck of my Ivatt Duchess to get them fitted and turning.

 

In addition, Hornby provides a two-position drawbar on the Duchess but it will not fit on the shorter setting. I can’t help feeling that if Hornby was properly attentive, an additional shorter drawbar would have been provided. It doesn’t seem to me a particularly difficult thing to do.

[Steam here!]

Sadly not, due to being restricted to 2nd radius curves for the time being, thr trailing bogie (under the cab) hangs to far over the rails and this would most likely cause the loco to derail.

 

However at some point in future I will be fitting it, I think as far as I know it can only be used on 3rd Radius or above and with medium/long streamline points? It doesn't appear to slide left and right it just sits in the cradle for the authentic appearence.

[Steam here!]

You'll also be pleased to know out of 9 ice block packaging boxes, I've managed to modify/edit 7, bit of trial and error is needed, but it can be done

[Steam here!]

Here are 2 of the coaches on Hornby 3rd radius.

[Steam here!]

Here they are again on the Hornby 4th Radius curves.

[Steam here!]

On 28/03/2020 at 13:55, robertcwp said:

Although there is a small error in that the Hornby 6224 Princess Alexandra is not suitable for the Coronation Scot as it has a double chimney, not fitted to the real thing until early in WW2, by which time the Coronation Scot had ceased running.

Hi Robert I have the Hornby 6224 double chimney (the one that came out a year or so ago). Do you know which LMS rolling stock would be suitable for her to haul?

[robertcwp]

11 minutes ago, Steam here! said:

Hi Robert I have the Hornby 6224 double chimney (the one that came out a year or so ago). Do you know which LMS rolling stock would be suitable for her to haul?

Normal LMS liveried stock. I believe the double chimney was fitted early in WW2. A few years later, during the war, the engine was painted black. So, Hornby has done the model in an early wartime condition.

[Pete the Elaner]

3 hours ago, robertcwp said:

Normal LMS liveried stock. I believe the double chimney was fitted early in WW2. A few years later, during the war, the engine was painted black. So, Hornby has done the model in an early wartime condition.

 

None of the blue streamliners would be authentic pulling the CS set in their double chimney condition.

According to my records (which may not be 100%, because it was around 80 years ago...)

The service was withdrawn & the sets were stored when war broke out in late 1939.

6224 was the first of the blue 5 to get a double chimney in May 1940

6221 was next, in November 1940

6223 in November 1941

6222 in August 1943

6220 didn't get a double chimney until December 1944, but it had already been painted into plain black in March 1944. It also carried the name & number for 6229 Duchess of Hamilton from February 1939 until April 1943.

The first 5 red streamliners were all built with single chimneys. The first of these to get a double was 6228 (Rutland) in October 1940.

 

6235-6239 were all built with double chimneys & in service before the war. Although these were red, do you think it was likely that the modified & therefore more powerful versions were tried on the company's premier service?

[No Decorum]

17 hours ago, Steam here! said:

You'll also be pleased to know out of 9 ice block packaging boxes, I've managed to modify/edit 7, bit of trial and error is needed, but it can be done

Gosh! I found that I could fit most coaches into the unmodified ice blocks, even though I had fitted the long gangways. Only the kitchen car wouldn’t fit and for that, I decided to change the gangway to the short version, after which it did fit. Well done you, though, for sorting it out.

[No Decorum]

17 hours ago, Steam here! said:

Sadly not, due to being restricted to 2nd radius curves for the time being, thr trailing bogie (under the cab) hangs to far over the rails and this would most likely cause the loco to derail.

 

However at some point in future I will be fitting it, I think as far as I know it can only be used on 3rd Radius or above and with medium/long streamline points? It doesn't appear to slide left and right it just sits in the cradle for the authentic appearence.

Those are very handsome detail photographs and make Coronation look very tempting (apart from the weird trailing wheel, of course). The Hornby line seems to be that the flanged wheels and the large bogie wheels are only for display but so far, where I’ve been able to fit flanged wheels, they have given me no trouble. I have to admit that I use Peco Streamline large radius points and plain track laid to 6' radius. It was a bit of over-reaction to the ordinary Hornby points I started out with but I’m glad I did it – big locos look very nice on it even though the curves are much tighter than on the real thing. 
 

[Steamport Southport]

The information for the Coronations is on the Wikipedia page.

 

Has all the dates and seems to tally with the books.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LMS_Coronation_Class

 

Don't forget there is a thread on the Hornby locos though and all this has been covered before.

 

 

 

Jason

[CF MRC]

On 14/05/2021 at 13:00, Steam here! said:

I see what you mean now No Decorum, regarding the front handles on the smoke box door. I took some photos last night and I don't think they look too bad, I suppose the holes could have a smaller diameter, but would reauire some extra work. (A step too far for me).

Was it the same on the previous tooling locos?

I wonder if the holes surrounding these handles could be made less obvious by running a drop of PVA glue in around them to  take away the countersunk look. The glue would dry translucent and take on the colour of the surrounds.  It would also lock the handles in place. 
 

Does  anyone make the winged headlamps for these trains?

Tim

Edited May 17, 2021 by CF MRC

[Aire Head]

19 minutes ago, CF MRC said:

I wonder if the holes surrounding these handles could be made less obvious by running a drop of PVA glue in around them to  take away the countersunk look. The glue would dry translucent and take on the colour of the surrounds.  It would also lock the handles in place. 
 

Does  anyone make the winged headlamps for these trains?

Tim

Im pretty sure someone 3D prints them