problem with left hand to left hand points

[zedcell]

Hi all have just started installing some cobalt point motors all the points have been modified for dcc  electrofrog running and have insulated fish plates fitted, the first left hand point ran perfect when tested, unfortunately the same cant be said for my attempt at a back to back left hand to left hand point.

They have been wired for operation via a single switch for tandem movement that works ok the issue is when a loco approaches it shorts out as soon as it is in contact with the point.

My concern is i have not wired correctly with regard to the droppers  and cobalt   i have connected the droppers from both points to the bus and tapped into the droppers and connected to terminals   2 and 3 on the cobalt motor.

image 1 with the large choc blocks are the droppers to the points if you look close the smaller red and black wires from the blocks runs to terminals 2 and 3 on the cobalt.

Image 2 is where the loco shorts out.

Any advice would be appreciated as im starting to scratch my head.

 

 

Edited January 7, 2020 by zedcell

[Robert Stokes]

It is difficult to work out what is at fault without being there.

 

One approach is to undo one wire and see if it still shorts. If it does, then put it back and undo another wire. Eventually you find the one that is causing the problem and hopefully can work out how to remedy the situation.

 

Robert

[zedcell]

Do you know if there is a different wiring configuration when wiring points back to back as opposed to stand alone as the stand alone operates without fault.

[peach james]

Are they electrofrog?

 

[zedcell]

yes they are electrofrog

Edited January 7, 2020 by zedcell

[Sol]

If the motors are face to face ( or back to back) then you have to connect the track dropper wires for frog switching to match - they will have to be different.

 

[zedcell]

Sol that sounds good can you give me a bit more detail thanks.

[Sol]

OK, here goes

this is from the cobalt manual showing the terminals and the 2 change over switches and lets us assume the turnout is set for the straight track ---

 so the frog wire is connected to a C terminal and S1 & S2 to the track wires - so assume S2 goes to the straight rail & S1 to the curved rail & it works without shorting - if there is short reverse S1 & S2.

Now when you instal the next Cobalt  whether face to face or back to back - C goes to Frog & S1 & S2 to track rails and you may have to reverse those 2 wires to stop a short.

 

One can draw the turnout in the straight though mode & add the contacts set to represent straight thru & draw connections accordingly but unless one is really up to that, I  would connect one Cobalt at a time & test it before doing the next.

[zedcell]

Thanks for your help on this much appreciated.

[newbryford]

On ‎07‎/‎01‎/‎2020 at 02:30, Sol said:

OK, here goes

 

 

Well spotted that the motors are of the original variety with 8 terminals!

[John ks]

With the loco shorting out when it enters the frog it could be that the phase(DCC for polarity) of the frog is wrong, 

try throwing the point & see if the loco still shorts when entering the point (frog end), stop before the blades to prevent derailing

 

Frog phasing can be checked with a 12V bulb(could be 5to 10W auto lamp)

With the point set to straight then the bulbs should light as shown, if the lights are left off & right on then the phasing of the frog is wrong

 

Just checking but are links under the point been cut (cant tell from the pic) & have IRJ used on all frog rails(looking at your pics I think I can see the IRJ's in the correct places)

 

John