Jump to content
 

ECoS Controller Questions


Sir TophamHatt
 Share

Recommended Posts

Yes but there is a simpler solution. Use these. https://www.dccconcepts.com/product/dcc-decoder-converter-3-wire-to-2-wire-3-pack/
 

I use these to change the polarity of the output of the switch pilot so by changing direction of the point motors. No need for the extension module unless you need extra switches than on the tortoise. 
 

Set the Switch Pilot to ‘user’ with the little switch and set the pulse duration to max. Easy with the Lok Programmer or on the ECoS. Then adjust the travel of the point motor using the fulcrum or the pulse duration. 
 

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for that info. I'm going to put a spread sheet together to try and work out the cost of controlling 60 Tortoise motors via the various options that have been suggested. I don't have the time or expertise to build from scratch, but of course recognise that manufactured product is going to considerably more expensive. Cost is a parameter, but reliability, ease of installation, ease of use and quality of the product are equally important.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Knock, knock....Can I come in?.....;)

 

I have an ECoS sat in front of me and I've managed to turn it on and even loaded up a loco, so that's a start....

 

Couple of questions already that I can't find the answers to.

 

My first loco is an LMS Crab and I've managed to do most things other than find a pic/icon of the loco. I'm sure I heard that BR loco's were in the database with their own icons, but I can see any UK stuff at all. There seems to be around 300 icons in the drop down menu. The icon numbers seem to be all over the place, but in groups of 50 or so consecutive numbers. US, European, but no sign of UK locos.

 

Does this mean I have to download something or will each loco have to be photographed to create an icon?

 

In the CV menu, I've managed to read the decoder and it says it is a TCS decoder, but doesn't say what type. The menu box just says it's a Generic NMRA decoder and TCS doesn't appear in the drop down list. Having read the decoder once, I'm assuming I can save the type at least, or have I got to read it every time?

 

Maybe I need to set up a manual database detailing the decoder types and settings on every loco.

 

Just thinking about it, maybe it doesn't let you save that info as you could change the decoder.  I'm sure my NCE handset told you the manufacturer and a code for the actual type of decoder, but probably didn't save the decoder information just the CV's, so maybe I'm talking garbage.....

 

Is there a graphic screen display showing all the CV's similar to that of a SPROG I bought years ago?  Can that be connected to my ECoS? I also seem to recall JJGRaphics (John) was using JMRI so I'm assuming I have to connect the ECoS to my Mac or iPad to access either a SPROG or JMRI.

 

Apologies for such basic questions....but we all have to start somewhere. :D

 

John is coming over later next week to give me a bit of a crash course, but I'd like to do a bit more before he arrives, so at least I have the basics covered.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Gordon,

 

1 - your PowerCab remembered nothing, not even any CV values.  It would report manufacturer code (a CV value) in a decoder which it is reading, but that's it,  it never remembered it. 

 

2 - the ECoS and its Icons - consult forums and SWDigital (UK Importers); always assuming it came from a proper UK source so its for SWDigital to support it.   There will be various upgrades/etc. to add icons, etc.. 

 

3 - JMRI.  Will talk to your ECoS directly and program locos.  The process has its convolutions, but it should work.  The JMRI website has basic information for each hardware supported.   (Reason for issues:  both the ECoS and the computer running JMRI think they are "smart", so can get in a tangle, whereas other less complex DCC systems have a lack of "smart" in them).

 

4 - do not connect both your ECoS and a Sprog (or for that matter, any other DCC system) to the same bit of track.   Not even temporarily.  The likelihood is that you'll seriously damage one or both of the two systems.     If you use a Sprog, keep it away from your main system and its tracks. 

 

 

  • Agree 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Nigel. I did think that was the case, but it's so long since I was programming locos, I'd forgotten.

 

What do I need to connect my ECoS to my network? A wireless router or some form of electronic gizmo that would connect to my existing router?

 

My BT router is downstairs and ideally I would want the ECoS permanently wired into the layout in the floor above my BT fibre router.

 

How secure will that connection be either through a gizmo or another router? 

 

Will it be a back door into my PC or are those negligible risks and generally secure?

 

I would like to use my iPad for programming or control in addition to my ECoS. The iPad is already on wireless and that works throughout the house, so signal strength is not an issue.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

Providing you have the colour screen ECoS the rechargeable batteries will charge from flat in the machine, obviously it is faster just to put a set that are a;ready charged, but I had to change the “cheap and low capacity” rechargeable supplied with the ECoS (mine was a new old stock ECoS and the batteries had died through still being wrapped and not used for three years!) I fitted a set of good quality batteries and they were fully charged in about 5 hours.

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, gordon s said:

Thanks Nigel. I did think that was the case, but it's so long since I was programming locos, I'd forgotten.

 

What do I need to connect my ECoS to my network? A wireless router or some form of electronic gizmo that would connect to my existing router?

 

 

An ethernet cable. 

 

Or, if you cannot put a cable from ECoS to home router, some means to extend a cable through other methods, such as a wireless adaptor which can act as a "client" rather than a base-station, or a setup using Ethernet over Mains wiring  (or other methods).   

Ethernet over-mains is likely to have the lowest setup hassle, whereas using wireless adaptors may get into network address ranges and other techie things. 

 

 

Quote

My BT router is downstairs and ideally I would want the ECoS permanently wired into the layout in the floor above my BT fibre router.

 

How secure will that connection be either through a gizmo or another router? 

 

Will it be a back door into my PC or are those negligible risks and generally secure?

 

 

 

Wired through ethernet, no risk unless someone physically breaks in (at which point the ECoS is irrelevant for their access to your PC).

 

Other methods, depends on what you pick, but I'd suggest they are likely to as good or better than your smart TV, any smart speakers, etc.. that you may have around the house.    And massively safer than than any cheap toys with an internet connection (see news reports about various kids toys with wide-open security flaws). 

 

 

Quote

I would like to use my iPad for programming or control in addition to my ECoS. The iPad is already on wireless and that works throughout the house, so signal strength is not an issue.

 

Consult with other as to what options exist for iPads.   I think you may be able to run a client on the iPad which gives you a duplicate of the ECoS screen.   And there is a paid-for App which gives throttles (but is the App still being actively updated and developed ?  The Touch Cab guys have been quiet for some time).    

 

But, if you want to use JMRI (mentioned in previous posts), you still need a "proper" computer running one of MacOS, Linux or Windows.    Then you can use the iPad as a screen into JMRI if that is needed.    

The really cheap, effective, stand-alone JMRI machine is a Raspberry PI (under £50 including power supply and a micro SD card for the operating system). 

 

 

 

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

There are 2 standards for Ethernet over mains, Powerline and HomePlug. They are both very effective with the latest Powerline devices being just shy of 2Gbps on a good mains circuuit. The one drawback is that the 2 standards are not inter-operable. I suggest that you stick with the Powerline  standard which is supported by TP Link and Netgear. If you buy a kit from either one it will be plug and play and you will be up and running within 5 mins of opening the box.

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for all your inputs.

 

As you may be aware my attempts to build a layout have been ongoing for over 15 years and during that time I have learned and forgotten a lot of information, particularly on IT where the equipment and software has moved on far quicker that I have.

 

Having read more last night and this morning, I can see me original serial port Sprog is obsolete. I now recall it was set up to run via an old Windows PC as a stand alone set up.

 

I’ve ordered a TP Link Powerline adaptor from Amazon which should be here today.

 

I’ll spend today hooking up the NCE Switch 8 to the board I’m building and see if I can switch the three crossovers.
 

Hopefully I’ll find my way through without asking too many questions...:D

Edited by gordon s
Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, an eventful day....

 

The biggest problem was getting the NCE to fire up as the display kept saying 'Decoder has power but no DCC signal'. Spent a good hour trawling through both sets of manuals and was just about to ask here when I recalled Railcom and the need to switch it off. Back to the ECoS manual and found out how to switch off Railcom and all was well...:D

 

Set up the three sets of crossovers and then managed to create a diagram of the board with the six turnouts. Somehow I'd crossed over a few wires within the pairings so had to rewire some and I needed to reverse a few 1 and 8's on the Tortoise motors, but low and behold it works....

 

Whoopee!

 

The TP Link Powerline Adaptors will arrive tonight. Small world really as TP Link were the Chinese company that bought our golf course a couple of years ago....

 

It all looked a little daunting this morning, but once you start to find your way around, it starts to make sense.

 

The question of Bitmap images came up and I found this YouTube video which seems to provide a solution.

 

 

It certainly works on the quick test I did, but wondered if there were other cheap/free pieces of software that may do a better job. It's only for loco icons, so no real need for really high definition.

 

Many thanks for all your help and support.

 

 

Edited by gordon s
Link to post
Share on other sites

The Powerline adaptors turned up today and I have plugged one into the mains downstairs with a cable into my BT router. The second one is plugged into the mains upstairs with another cable into the back of my ECoS. I've paired them and now have three lights on both adaptors. At the back of my ECoS I have a blinking green light and a red light continually on.

 

I've gone into the network page in the ECoS and it shows an IP address, Gateway and Network Mask numbers. In the bottom right there is a Mac Address. Does this mean it is connected?

 

My Mac is wireless to the same router, so not plugged in directly.

 

If it's not connected to the network, what do I need to do?

 

If it is connected, what am I supposed to do?....;)

 

I've downloaded JMRI Decoder Pro onto my Mac and opening that it asks for the following info. IP Address which I assume is the one I read from my ECoS, a connection prefix that is showing as 'U' and the Connection Name which shows as ECoS. I have the System connection set as ECoS via network. Clicking on Next and Finish, I'm getting this error message.

 

'An error occurred while trying to connect to ECoS. Press the back button and check the connection details'

 

Any ideas?

 

 

Edited by gordon s
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium
On 08/02/2020 at 20:10, WIMorrison said:

There are 2 standards for Ethernet over mains, Powerline and HomePlug. They are both very effective with the latest Powerline devices being just shy of 2Gbps on a good mains circuuit. The one drawback is that the 2 standards are not inter-operable. I suggest that you stick with the Powerline  standard which is supported by TP Link and Netgear. If you buy a kit from either one it will be plug and play and you will be up and running within 5 mins of opening the box.

Hi Iain

Devolo call their devices "Powerline Homeplugs" ;)

I've had 3 Devolo ones for donkey's years and bought them because they seemed to be, at the time, ahead of the game on speed.

They currently do 2400Mbp/s adaptors. (Magic 2 range)

Edited by melmerby
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium
On 28/01/2020 at 22:08, two tone green said:

Yes but there is a simpler solution. Use these. https://www.dccconcepts.com/product/dcc-decoder-converter-3-wire-to-2-wire-3-pack/
 

I use these to change the polarity of the output of the switch pilot so by changing direction of the point motors. No need for the extension module unless you need extra switches than on the tortoise. 
 

Set the Switch Pilot to ‘user’ with the little switch and set the pulse duration to max. Easy with the Lok Programmer or on the ECoS. Then adjust the travel of the point motor using the fulcrum or the pulse duration. 
 

Or make your own for a few 10s of pence each.

 

843470854_TwincoiltoTortoise.jpg.aedd44146dccb7e6490f9c2d08b5736b.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, gordon s said:

The Powerline adaptors turned up today and I have plugged one into the mains downstairs with a cable into my BT router. The second one is plugged into the mains upstairs with another cable into the back of my ECoS. I've paired them and now have three lights on both adaptors. At the back of my ECoS I have a blinking green light and a red light continually on.

 

I've gone into the network page in the ECoS and it shows an IP address, Gateway and Network Mask numbers. In the bottom right there is a Mac Address. Does this mean it is connected?

 

My Mac is wireless to the same router, so not plugged in directly.

 

If it's not connected to the network, what do I need to do?

 

If it is connected, what am I supposed to do?....;)

 

I've downloaded JMRI Decoder Pro onto my Mac and opening that it asks for the following info. IP Address which I assume is the one I read from my ECoS, a connection prefix that is showing as 'U' and the Connection Name which shows as ECoS. I have the System connection set as ECoS via network. Clicking on Next and Finish, I'm getting this error message.

 

'An error occurred while trying to connect to ECoS. Press the back button and check the connection details'

 

Any ideas?

 

 

Hi there,

 

To check your ECoS is connected and working on the network, open up your web browser on your Mac and enter the ECoS i.p. address into the address bar, then hit enter. This should bring up your ECoS page in your web browser. 
If this happens, it is confirmation that your ECoS is on your network and can communicate with other things.

With regard to JMRI, unfortunately I can’t help you with that as I have never used it with ECoS. I have always used TouchCab for wireless control and an app called Mocha VNC to mirror to ECoS display on an iPad. This also allows me to operate the ECoS from my iPad.

 I hope my ramblings may be some use to you.

98106564-F6F8-40D4-A2D5-B67228190513.jpeg

  • Agree 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Many thanks. I’ll give that a go tomorrow. One thing that has occurred to me, probably because I’m not a network/IT guy, is that I may have a colon between the IP address numbers, not a full stop. No idea why I did that...

 

The other thing is that I’m fairly sure the IP address etc shown in your screenshot are the same as my own. I have them written down, so will check again in the morning.

 

Fingers crossed it’s just operator error....

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello gordon,

 

Unless I'm mistaken the IP address is the same for all the ECoS - I can't check on mine at the moment. Oh! One top tip - don't drop your ECoS - and don't ask how I know ............... :cry:

 

I don't regret having bought it - really easy to use in terms of loco programming. Just keeping an eye on this thread and another similar one so I can learn about point programming for the future.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Success! It must have been late last night and as suspected it was down to operator error...

 

My ECoS is on the network and changing my colon’s to full stops has allowed Decoder Pro to communicate, so all is well. Funny how you can look at a screenshot and these things jump out at you, so many thanks.

 

The IP addresses are similar, but not the same.

 

’Scuse my ignorance, but are IP addresses like passwords and something you shouldn’t publish on a public forum?

 

Does that give anyone potential access to your network?

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Gordon,

the IP addresses you have are local to your house.   Someone else, in another house will have *exactly* the same addresses.    Publishing them tells someone almost nothing, as they need to be inside your house network to make any use of them (by which time, they know those addresses anyway).   

The 192.168.* range of addresses are in the standards documents as one of the address ranges to use in local (home) networks, so almost every house in the country will be using those identical addresses within the house.

 

The router between your house and outside (the box from your ISP) does translation between the local addresses (inside the house) and its address on the public network.   So, traffic from outside to your house goes to your router's address on the public side, which then translates those back to the devices within your house.

 

Such arrangements are totally safe provided the router linking your private network (within house) to public (outside) has sensible routing rules within it.  It acts as the "firewall", and provided nobody (you or your supplying ISP)  has configured any "holes" through the wall, it is safe.  

 

 

 

- Nigel

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Nigel, much appreciated. I drum security issues into my kids, re passwords etc, but whilst I know what a network is, I don't really understand the detail behind it as we always had IT guys at work who dealt with all these things.

 

Is the IP address shown on the ECoS for my Mac desktop an internal IP for the network or the external IP linked to the outside world?

 

Is that's something that you should protect in terms of creating a hole through your firewall or does it make no difference knowing it?

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold
23 hours ago, gordon s said:

In the bottom right there is a Mac Address. Does this mean it is connected?

 

Hi Gordon,

 

I just thought I'd check that you don't think that the MAC-address quoted by the ECoS has anything to do with your MAC?  It doesn't.  If your interested (and you certainly don't need to know any of this) you can learn more from the Wiki page  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAC_address

 

 

Steve

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for your input on IP addresses. Relieved to know I haven't left the back door open....;)

 

Back to some more interesting things. Spent the day laying out one end of ET station on the track plan and it all went reasonably well after a few attempts of self learning. Bit disappointed there isn't a diamond crossing, so had to use a double slip, but the 90 degree angles make it all bit messy. Trawling the web it appears others have raised this before, but couldn't find an answer from ESU.

 

Started route planning and set up one route that works, so that's a step in the right direct. One thing is puzzling me though. 

 

1036415688_DSCF0287(2).jpg.daacd5c0fe2701dfc9c8c77c65c0e0dd.jpg

 

When I switch turnout A, the switched crossing B also moves on the plan. Neither are connected to the layout yet.

 

I've checked all the properties of both accessories and can't see anything wrong. Tried deleting them both and reinstalling the two components, but it still happens.

 

Any ideas?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...