Jump to content
 

ECoS Controller Questions


Sir TophamHatt
 Share

Recommended Posts

Tried again this morning to get to the bottom of this, but still at a loss. I've checked the properties page for both accessories and they look fine. I've opened up a whole new track plan diagram and just plonked the two accessories far apart on the page with no connecting tracks and the same thing happens. Make a change to turnout 8 and double slip 7 moves as well. It doesn't matter where you move it to on the page, the same happens which would suggest there is something awry with the programming on one of the accessories, but I can't see it....

 

I can't seen anywhere in the unit to check any hidden links or similar and I have yet to connect the NCE Switch 8 to these particular accessories. It is connected to the track bus, but as yet I have only connected the three crossovers on the left of the plan above. They all work as they should do.

 

Just tried something else. Changed both addresses to 57 and 58 and they work fine. I can change one of them back to their original address and it's still fine, but change them both back and they both switch.

 

OK, I can just change the addresses as workaround, but I have no idea what is going on or how to get it to perform as it should......;)

Link to post
Share on other sites

You have, I think, answered "what is going on" in your posting. 

 

You say somehow inside the ECoS track diagram there is a link between turnouts 7 and 8.   When you relabel them as some other value the link goes away.   When you revert back to 7 and 8 the link re-appears.

So, something in the way that the slip (7) is defined is assuming a connection to turnout 8 as well.   Investigate what that is within the ECoS.  (My guess its like this:   Slips usually have two moving items, which have to move independently, so that's likely to be part of the issue - an assumption by the ECoS that number 7 (part of a slip) is also controlled by number 8, assumed to be the other part of slip by ECoS. 

 

 

- Nigel

 

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Nigel. I looked in the obvious places but couldn't find anything, but bear in mind I've only had it a week....;)

 

Trawled the web and found this on another forum from 2009. I think it confirms what you said in your reply..

 

Seems I stumbled into something without knowing.....:D

 

 

When you enter the Double Slip Switch (4) ECoS knows that there are 2 motors required. the address you enter is the first address and ECoS allocates the 2nd address itself.
You must conform to the standard of having the second address available in the same block of 4 addresses.
If you enter address 1 ECoS allocates 2 - OK
If you enter address 4 ECoS will allocate 5 - not good as the second address is in the second block of 4

Look at the end of the Number (Address) line and you will see [ Block number : Address Number within the block of four ]

[attachment=1190:ECoS_Double_Slip.jpg]

Look at the table in the back of the ECoS manual and you can see the Turnout Address Blocks (3rd column)


This is the second example (not allowed)

[attachment=1191:ECoS_Dou...ip_NO_GO.jpg]

The 1st address is entered as 4 (in 1st Block) so the second address will be 5 which is the 2nd Block NOT ALLOWED


The same applies to ALL accessories needing more than one address including the three way point and the 3 way signals etc.

When you have entered the Double Slip allocate it to a Route and when you select it on screen you should see

[attachment=1192:Show_Rou...election.jpg]

Just select the route formation you want.

If you are using SwitchPilots the manual Fig.12 on page 19 shows the Turnout Numbers and relevant CV's



The software that does have Double and Single Slips in its element selection is iTrain Visit iTrain website
It is written for the ECoS (and others) and comes in four flavours: Mac OS X 10.4 / 5 , Windows , Linux and OpenSolaris

I will declare an interest in iTrain in so far as I am a beta tester for it.
I specifically requested that the Double and Single slips be added as ECoS provided the controlling hardware and have planned to use both on my layout.
These are in addition to the elements using the continental application of slips.

An Example of them in use on the Switchboard
[attachment=1194:iTrain_S...straight.jpg] [attachment=1193:iTrain_S_D_Slips.jpg]

You just click on the square to change the route or use a Track Route Function either manually or it can be controlled automatically.


Another big plus for iTrain is the cost - 79� for the Standard version.
It is an ongoing development project with excellent support and an English speakers forum.

Chris

Edited by gordon s
  • Informative/Useful 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Just checked the block numbers/address numbers and that confirms the above. Address 7 is 2:3 and 8 is 2:4, so if the above is to be believed then both addresses are allocated to the double slip.

 

If that is the case, I would have thought a warning would have come up asking if you want to allocate this address. You would then have the opportunity to choose a different address or in the case of a crossover you could use the same address deliberately to switch them both off the same switch of the Switch 8.

 

 

Edited by gordon s
Link to post
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, gordon s said:

Another big plus for iTrain is the cost - 79� for the Standard version.
It is an ongoing development project with excellent support and an English speakers forum.

 

@gordon s 

 

A slight correction for you :)

 

iTrain Standard v5 is €209, but an upgrade from v4 standard to v5 standard is €49

 

https://www.berros.eu/en/itrain/pricing.php

 

Not sure where you have found the 79� figure :(

 

Iain

Link to post
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Nigelcliffe said:

You have, I think, answered "what is going on" in your posting. 

 

You say somehow inside the ECoS track diagram there is a link between turnouts 7 and 8.   When you relabel them as some other value the link goes away.   When you revert back to 7 and 8 the link re-appears.

So, something in the way that the slip (7) is defined is assuming a connection to turnout 8 as well.   Investigate what that is within the ECoS.  (My guess its like this:   Slips usually have two moving items, which have to move independently, so that's likely to be part of the issue - an assumption by the ECoS that number 7 (part of a slip) is also controlled by number 8, assumed to be the other part of slip by ECoS. 

 

 

- Nigel

 


Fleischmann, Marklin and I think Roco slips operate with one address which confused me when automating a layout that used them as have always used 2 addresses for a slip. 
 

Could this be part of the issue as Ecosystem hails from the same place? I also note that they often refer to slips as English slips also suggesting a difference in terminology that may extend into control?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Any idea why they haven’t added a diamond crossing? Mine is a switched crossing, so does need two motors, but they can be commoned  up with the approach turnouts. You can only go straight across so a simple crossing would suffice.

 

I need to check, but believe I saw a 90 degree crossing in the icons, so I’ll go and check.

 

I’m also sure I saw a way of copying a straight piece of track into 20 squares in one go, by highlighting the consecutive squares. Can’t find it in the manual, but certain I saw it on a YouTube video. Of course I can’t find it now......:D

 

Is that possible?

Edited by gordon s
Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorted out my track plan by removing the double slip and replacing it with a 90 degree plain crossing. I can common up the Tortoise motors driving the crossing with the approach pointwork either end, so job done...

 

Quick question again. I've hooked up my ECoS to my Mac via my network and all appears OK.

 

Screen shot from my Mac.

 

534118821_Screenshot2020-02-13at08_55_06.png.c881499ca55af350e008bf0416b415b2.png

 

......but clicking on 'Show display in browser' only brings this up.

 

What plug in do I require or should I be looking at the screen via a different route?

 

360663040_Screenshot2020-02-13at08_54_52.png.5cd9f716334082aa90dbd31209b336f3.png

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Phil, I did look at that, but a with a switched crossing you can only go straight across. Yes it could be done by synchronised switching of two separate turnouts back to back, but it removed any confusion just having a 90 degree crossing with no switch option. The motors will still work being powered from the approach pointwork, but won't show on the screen. It also took away any address conflicts that I experienced a day or two ago.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

48 minutes ago, gordon s said:

Sorted out my track plan by removing the double slip and replacing it with a 90 degree plain crossing. I can common up the Tortoise motors driving the crossing with the approach pointwork either end, so job done...

 

Quick question again. I've hooked up my ECoS to my Mac via my network and all appears OK.

 

Screen shot from my Mac.

 

 

 

......but clicking on 'Show display in browser' only brings this up.

 

What plug in do I require or should I be looking at the screen via a different route?

 

 

 

 

ESU's manuals say the remote client uses Java.   So, you need a Java plug-in for your browser.     I don't know what rules Apple impose on their customers to stop them using 3rd party stuff, so talk to an Apple Genius.

 

 

- Nigel

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Nigel. I went onto the Java site and it said that Java won't work with Safari 12 or above as Apple had withdrawn their NPAPI? support.

 

Tried with Google Chrome and had a similar result, so maybe I'll give that a miss. Seems there were a lot of comments re the security elements of Java (way outside my IT knowledge).

Edited by gordon s
Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, WIMorrison said:

Is there confusion here between Java and JavaScript?

 

Java is most definitely available on a Mac - JMRI, decoder pro, iTrain etc would not run without it.

 

In this case, no, its not that regular 30-year old confusion.   The ECoS requires Java in a Browser, which requires a browser which supports a Java plug-in.   Apple withdrew that option from Safari some time ago. 

 

An alternative approach would be to use a third-party train control application which runs on MacOS, which would include JMRI and iTrain.  Both could control track panel diagrams, run locomotives, and more.   
Yes, those two are both Java applications, but they are "applications" (so nicely constrained from an operating system security/integrity point of view), so not trying to run a Java plug-in inside a browsers (which has been known as a potential security hole for a long time). 

 

 

- Nigel

Edited by Nigelcliffe
Link to post
Share on other sites

Well that's weird then, because with my ECoS switched on via the network, Decoder Pro opens and I can programme locos etc onto the programming track via my Mac. I'm guessing that means it has accessed Java from somewhere. Decoder Pro won't fire up with the ECoS disconnected.

 

If I ask the question is Java installed, this is the message that comes up with my ECoS diconnected. (Via Safari). Tried restarting and then going in via Google Chrome and got a slightly different message , but basically the same that Java couldn't be verified.

 

1800154851_Screenshot2020-02-13at15_35_58.png.db9ade70c5d189e0b7996288c0de8e22.png

 

 

Don't worry too much as John (JJGraphics) is coming over tomorrow and he's a whizz on Apple systems....;)

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, WIMorrison said:

How about trying the new Microsoft Edge browser which is available for Macs

 

https://www.microsoft.com/edge

 

It is based on Chromium with several enhancements that make it faster and more compliant than Chrome - though you can use all the Chrome extensions within it.

 

I would not let Chrome or anything from Google or Microsoft anywhere near my Mac. The same goes for Adobe Flash!

 

It is possible to configure Java to run the screen view of the ECoS on a Mac, but it is complex to do so and using VNC is easier if you really want to do that. However, the throttle response is not especially good when running the screen view via the browser or with VNC. Everything else seems to work quite well. Throttle response on iOS and Android via VNC is also not very special in my experience.

 

TouchCab throttle response is normal on iOS and the App is very stable on the latest version of iOS/iPadOS.

 

The standard installation of Java which comes with macOS is fine for JMRI and JMRI throttle response is very good in my experience.

 

John

 

 

Edited by JJGraphics
Add additional comment
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

I seem to have had another brain fog this morning. How do you save a back up file?

 

I've gone to this page on my Mac PC and click on 'store settings' but nothing happens. Am I in the totally wrong place as I was expecting it to generate a file or a download.

 

The manual isn't really clear as it talks about select 'Save configuration' whereas the screen says 'Store configuration' which makes me think I've wandered off piste.

 

I've scrolled through all the menu's on the ECoS but can't see any sign of creating a back up file.

 

I'm sure it's pretty obvious once you know....;)

 

 

1290488578_Screenshot2020-02-23at11_14_48.png.f4c771d74fcf96bd8cc459cc2807147d.png

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

 

What happens if you try to Restore configuration?

 

If it has saved something it should give some clue what it's loading and from where.

If not there will be an error

(Not ESU specific, but Windows generally)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well that's the strange thing. It's ask you to choose a file and clicking on that shows an ECoS back up file on my desktop, so I must have done it once before, but blowed if I can remember what I did and the manual doesn't give any clues. I don't want to reload that file as that was clearly done right at the beginning and since then I have wired up all the switch 8's etc and don't want to go back to an earlier set up.

 

Looking at that file it says created and last modified on the 13th Feb, so it's not overwriting it when you press store settings.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium
1 hour ago, gordon s said:

Well that's the strange thing. It's ask you to choose a file and clicking on that shows an ECoS back up file on my desktop, so I must have done it once before, but blowed if I can remember what I did and the manual doesn't give any clues. I don't want to reload that file as that was clearly done right at the beginning and since then I have wired up all the switch 8's etc and don't want to go back to an earlier set up.

 

Looking at that file it says created and last modified on the 13th Feb, so it's not overwriting it when you press store settings.

A back up shouldn't (If the software was set up as it should be) overwrite a previous back-up without giving you the option to overwrite/replace it.

Sometimes a simple date stamp or other unique identifier in the file name is what differentiates each backup.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...