ECoS Controller Questions

[Ouroborus]

4 hours ago, Sir TophamHatt said:

And here's the next question:

 

 

 

 

Can anyone expand on this?

 

I tried [to make a shuttle] with some shop bought diode thing (I can't remember the name now, perhaps by Lenz?) but I couldn't get it to work very well. If the ECoS can perform a shuttle operation relatively simply, I think this will be the clincher to purchase, providing I can sell my PA2 system.

 

 

Hovermotion  on YouTube has several clips showing how to do this and in operation.  If you have an ECoS, his clips are invaluab!e

[Sir TophamHatt]

Last question for this moment in time:

 

What's the difference between the 50200 and the 50210?

[gordon s]

The 50200 is 4A and the 50210 is 6A

 

Here's both specs for you to compare....

 

50200

 

 

50210

 

[Ron Ron Ron]

Apart from the increase in power rating from 4 to 6 amps, ESU said that there were a number of changes to the innards and method of assembly, or somesuch.
i.e. under the bonnet mods that are transparent to the user.

 

 

 

.

[Sir TophamHatt]

Thought of another question (yes, I know a year later and I still haven't bought one!).

 

Can you set the F numbers to be latching / not latching?

And can these change on a per loco basis?

[boxbrownie]

28 minutes ago, Sir TophamHatt said:

Thought of another question (yes, I know a year later and I still haven't bought one!).

 

Can you set the F numbers to be latching / not latching?

And can these change on a per loco basis?

Yes, every function can be set either way on every Loco, you will not regret buying the ECoS......when you do 

[GoingUnderground]

Rather than drip feeding questions, can I suggest that, if you haven't already done so, you download and read the ECoS manual from the ESU website http://www.esu.eu/en/downloads/instruction-manuals/digital-systems/

 

The manual for the 50200 covers all ECoS models, even the now long discontinued black & white ECoS 1 as they all can be updated to the latest firmware and are functionally identical, bar the limitations for the hardware differences between the 1 (50000), 2 (50200) and 2.1 (50210) for a given version of the firmware. So don't bother looking for a manual specifically for the 50210, there isn't one. As far as owners are concerned, the only difference between the 50200 and the 50210 is that the 50210 supplies 2 amps more current, and the 50200 is discontinued, having been superseded by the 50210.

 

You'll see that the manual was, sadly, published almost 10 years ago and relates to firmware 3.4.0. That isn't too much of a problem as the essential features are unchanged and are adequately covered by the manual. Also all the subsequent changes are additions to functionality not changes or deletions, with one exception which doesn't affect normal use in any way.

 

Fortunately, ESU have published on their website help in using the more recent  functionality additions which you can read on line from here http://www.esu.eu/en/support/tips-tricks/ECoS/ which, hopefully, with the manual, will answer all your questions.

But do remember, if you buy an ECoS you're potentially tying yourself into ESU's ecosystem, as the jargon goes. ECoS uses ESU's unique ECoSLink bus to connect peripherals namely ECoSBoost, and ECoSDetector, and they're not cheap. Only ESU use ECoSLink. If you want to add an additional throttle your choices are either the Mobile Control 2, or add the L.Net module and use a Loconet throttle as ESU do not make a corded throttle or handset. With L.Net you can use Loco.net occupancy detection modules as well, but not Loconet boosters. You can use other makes of booster provided you can connect them to the "CDE" booster terminal, see the manual. 

 

If you haven't already done so, you must go and try out an ECoS at a dealer once we can all get back out there again safely. When I became discontented with my first DCC controller, a ZTC 505 as it happens, I went to a retailer who had several controllers set up to try looking for possible alternatives. I wasn't even considering buying an ECoS as I thought it was too expensive. But having tried an ECoS, and the others, including many folks favourite from NCE, I realised that ECoS was probably the one for me. After much thought I went back a few weeks later I bought it, and have never regretted my choice.

Edited January 2, 2021 by GoingUnderground
Updated

[Phil Bullock]

2 hours ago, GoingUnderground said:

Rather than drip feeding questions, can I suggest that, if you haven't already done so, you download and read the ECoS manual from the ESU website http://www.esu.eu/en/downloads/instruction-manuals/digital-systems/

 

The manual for the 50200 covers all ECoS models, even the now long discontinued black & white ECoS 1 as they all can be updated to the latest firmware and are functionally identical, bar the limitations for the hardware differences between the 1 (50000), 2 (50200) and 2.1 (50210) for a given version of the firmware. So don't bother looking for a manual specifically for the 50210, there isn't one. As far as owners are concerned, the only difference between the 50200 and the 50210 is that the 50210 supplies 2 amps more current, and the 50200 is discontinued, having been superseded by the 50210.

 

You'll see that the manual was, sadly, published almost 10 years ago and relates to firmware 3.4.0. That isn't too much of a problem as the essential features are unchanged and are adequately covered by the manual. Also all the subsequent changes are additions to functionality not changes or deletions, with one exception which doesn't affect normal use in any way.

 

Fortunately, ESU have published on their website help in using the more recent  functionality additions which you can read on line from here http://www.esu.eu/en/support/tips-tricks/ECoS/ which, hopefully, with the manual, will answer all your questions.

But do remember, if you buy an ECoS you're potentially tying yourself into ESU's ecosystem, as the jargon goes. ECoS uses ESU's unique ECoSLink bus to connect peripherals namely ECoSBoost, and ECoSDetector, and they're not cheap. Only ESU use ECoSLink. If you want to add an additional throttle your choices are either the Mobile Control 2, or add the L.Net module and use a Loconet throttle as ESU do not make a corded throttle or handset. With L.Net you can use Loco.net occupancy detection modules as well, but not Loconet boosters. You can use other makes of booster provided you can connect them to the "CDE" booster terminal, see the manual. 

 

If you haven't already done so, you must go and try out an ECoS at a dealer once we can all get back out there again safely. When I became discontented with my first DCC controller, a ZTC 505 as it happens, I went to a retailer who had several controllers set up to try looking for possible alternatives. I wasn't even considering buying an ECoS as I thought it was too expensive. But having tried an ECoS, and the others, including many folks favourite from NCE, I realised that ECoS was probably the one for me. After much thought I went back a few weeks later I bought it, and have never regretted my choice.

Cheapest option for hand held throttles is to connect a wireless router, load WiThrottle or similar app on to android or apple device and robert is your fathers brother!

 

There is now also an ECoS cab app .... not had chance to try that yet

 

 

[Sir TophamHatt]

4 hours ago, GoingUnderground said:

Rather than drip feeding questions, can I suggest that, if you haven't already done so, you download and read the ECoS manual from the ESU website http://www.esu.eu/en/downloads/instruction-manuals/digital-systems/

 

The manual for the 50200 covers all ECoS models, even the now long discontinued black & white ECoS 1 as they all can be updated to the latest firmware and are functionally identical, bar the limitations for the hardware differences between the 1 (50000), 2 (50200) and 2.1 (50210) for a given version of the firmware. So don't bother looking for a manual specifically for the 50210, there isn't one. As far as owners are concerned, the only difference between the 50200 and the 50210 is that the 50210 supplies 2 amps more current, and the 50200 is discontinued, having been superseded by the 50210.

 

You'll see that the manual was, sadly, published almost 10 years ago and relates to firmware 3.4.0. That isn't too much of a problem as the essential features are unchanged and are adequately covered by the manual. Also all the subsequent changes are additions to functionality not changes or deletions, with one exception which doesn't affect normal use in any way.

 

Fortunately, ESU have published on their website help in using the more recent  functionality additions which you can read on line from here http://www.esu.eu/en/support/tips-tricks/ECoS/ which, hopefully, with the manual, will answer all your questions.

But do remember, if you buy an ECoS you're potentially tying yourself into ESU's ecosystem, as the jargon goes. ECoS uses ESU's unique ECoSLink bus to connect peripherals namely ECoSBoost, and ECoSDetector, and they're not cheap. Only ESU use ECoSLink. If you want to add an additional throttle your choices are either the Mobile Control 2, or add the L.Net module and use a Loconet throttle as ESU do not make a corded throttle or handset. With L.Net you can use Loco.net occupancy detection modules as well, but not Loconet boosters. You can use other makes of booster provided you can connect them to the "CDE" booster terminal, see the manual. 

 

If you haven't already done so, you must go and try out an ECoS at a dealer once we can all get back out there again safely. When I became discontented with my first DCC controller, a ZTC 505 as it happens, I went to a retailer who had several controllers set up to try looking for possible alternatives. I wasn't even considering buying an ECoS as I thought it was too expensive. But having tried an ECoS, and the others, including many folks favourite from NCE, I realised that ECoS was probably the one for me. After much thought I went back a few weeks later I bought it, and have never regretted my choice.

Yeah, had a browse through the manual but my questions are far and few between these days and are hard to pull out of the manual for the (now very specific) answers I seek.

I have a hybrid setup though - DC for points and external lighting, DCC for locos so won't be worried about tying myself into a system as I don't need anything else but the controller for the trains.

Although I didn't go out and try my current system and it's been quite satisfactory up until I delved into sound.

[GoingUnderground]

18 hours ago, Sir TophamHatt said:

Yeah, had a browse through the manual but my questions are far and few between these days and are hard to pull out of the manual for the (now very specific) answers I seek.

I have a hybrid setup though - DC for points and external lighting, DCC for locos so won't be worried about tying myself into a system as I don't need anything else but the controller for the trains.

Although I didn't go out and try my current system and it's been quite satisfactory up until I delved into sound.

If you're not going to use DCC to control your points, then IMHO you'd be ignoring one of the great benefits of having an ECoS which is controlling your points via the track plan diagram. Yes, the plan will show occupancy if you use an ECoSDetector or ECoSDetector RC (don't use ECoSDetector Standard as it only works out of the box with 3 Rail), Loconet detectors if you have an L.Net module, or s88 detectors (s88 is quite common in continental Europe as it is a Maerklin standard).  But you haven't said that you want occupancy detection.

 

Likewise you haven't said if you want to use Railcom, particularly the loco name feature on the track plan diagram. If you're not going to use Railcom then again you'd be ignoring another of the benefits of owning an ECoS.

 

ECoS is expensive and to get the best value for money out of it means using all of its features, as, to be honest, buying one with the sole intention of using it just to control locos is a bit of an overkill, IMHO. 

 

Because it is so expensive you need to be absolutely sure that it is the right unit for you. So I still urge you to try before you buy.

[Phil Bullock]

Spot on re point control ... route setting a key benefit for sure! 

[gordon s]

Totally agree. I have over 50 routes set in ET with four main lines and seven platform faces. Just decide which line to which platform and one button press selects all the pointwork. Minor criticism and purely personal, the planning screen is too small for an old ‘un with less than 100% eyesight. Problem solved with a large mimic panel on the wall.

 

Very happy with my ECoS......

[GoingUnderground]

1 minute ago, gordon s said:

Totally agree. I have over 50 routes set in ET with four main lines and seven platform faces. Just decide which line to which platform and one button press selects all the pointwork. Minor criticism and purely personal, the planning screen is too small for an old ‘un with less than 100% eyesight. Problem solved with a large mimic panel on the wall.

 

Very happy with my ECoS......

Yes, the ECoS screen could be bigger. But as you say, the problem is solved if you have a tablet or laptop with miracast and a TV with miracast. Connect your tablet or laptop to the ECoS, run a VNC Client on the tablet or laptop and use miracast to throw the image to your TV. Hey presto, you have enlarged the ECoS screen image. The only limitation on how big you go is the size of your TV screen, the depth of your pockets, and how pixelated it becomes on larger screens. I've done it with a 24" TV via a 15" laptop before now. 

[gordon s]

All a bit hi-tech for me...............so went with something made from bits of wood and a few led’s.....

 

 

 

[Sir TophamHatt]

5 hours ago, GoingUnderground said:

ECoS is expensive and to get the best value for money out of it means using all of its features, as, to be honest, buying one with the sole intention of using it just to control locos is a bit of an overkill, IMHO. 

Like sound locos, I wasn't interested in it in the beginning, now I am.

I'm not quite mid-life yet and while I could die tomorrow, I envision I have plenty of time for more layouts that would use all the features of the ECoS.  But perhaps you have asumed what I want out of my model railway layout in it's current guise.  Some people are all about tech with wires and boxes all over the place under the layout.  Mine isn't like that at the moment and I doubt I'd really want it to get to that stage.  Clicking one button and sending the train off seems boring to me AT THE MOMENT.  

 

However, buying this controller may save me money / time / effort / much hair puling.

I bought some branded shuttle boards that were supposed to allow me to run a train as a shuttle - out and back.  Could I get them to work?  Not really.  It used the braking effects stored within the chip to work (think Zimo ABC).  Can't remember the brand of the boards.

Have I looked at another solution?  Yes.  But this will cost me ~£40.  This version uses a control board much like above but the rate of accelerating/braking/waiting is done within the board instead.  Method of detection seems to be the same.

The ECoS however, appears to have some sort of inbuilt system for this.  While it may require further cost for additional equipment, it seems simple enough for the layout I currently have.

 

Do you fully utilise all the features of your PC, phone or tablet?  What about fully utilising all available washes of a washing machine?  Or all features of your TV?  Because applying your same logic will no doubt mean getting that higher model was a waste of money.  No doubt you didn't try the washing machine or fridge before you bought either!  I didn't try my PA2 before buying and it's served me well.  Now I'm advancing into other areas, I am interested in something different - not that I use all features of the PA2.

 

The features it does have that my PA2 doesn't (or many others that I have seen) include dual control for locos, clearer access to F numbers and a more enjoyable graphical user layout.  I'm a bit of a stickler for looking to use the best where I can afford it.

 

Cheers for the input though.

Edited January 3, 2021 by Sir TophamHatt

[GoingUnderground]

I'm sorry if you feel that I was trying to discourage you from buying an ECoS. I wasn't, but some of your comments, such as the one about not realising that ECoS was a console system and that you can't walk around with it in your hand, or your surprise that it didn't have built in WiFi, made me wonder about how much you actually knew about it in the first place.

 

As regards, my suggestion that you try before you buy to which you seem to have taken exception, that is advice that I've seen given time after time by many, many members of this forum who are far more knowledgeable than I on matters DCC when folks ask for opinions on DCC controllers. So again I'm sorry if you took it the wrong way, as it was given with the best of intentions.

[Sir TophamHatt]

16 minutes ago, GoingUnderground said:

I'm sorry if you feel that I was trying to discourage you from buying an ECoS. I wasn't, but some of your comments, such as the one about not realising that ECoS was a console system and that you can't walk around with it in your hand, or your surprise that it didn't have built in WiFi, made me wonder about how much you actually knew about it in the first place.

It's okay, don't worry, no apology needed.

Perhaps some of these comments are born from the fact the most well known systems all have some sort of controller that isn't "command station" based - I just didn't link the fact the ECoS was a command station controller when I first saw photos.

 

But something fairly different to other controllers and (I guess) technological, I would have expected it to come with inbuilt wifi.  My TV from 10 years ago has it, as does a game console from 15 years ago, so easy to assume something much newer that has the capability to be connected to the internet, doesn't have a wireless option.  But both of those comments were from months ago.  Moving from a walk around (I barely move within a square metre anyway!) to non-walk around won't be too much of an adjustment, much less worse than I first thought when I realised I don't really move around very much anyway.

[pheaton]

32 minutes ago, Sir TophamHatt said:

It's okay, don't worry, no apology needed.

Perhaps some of these comments are born from the fact the most well known systems all have some sort of controller that isn't "command station" based - I just didn't link the fact the ECoS was a command station controller when I first saw photos.

 

But something fairly different to other controllers and (I guess) technological, I would have expected it to come with inbuilt wifi.  My TV from 10 years ago has it, as does a game console from 15 years ago, so easy to assume something much newer that has the capability to be connected to the internet, doesn't have a wireless option.  But both of those comments were from months ago.  Moving from a walk around (I barely move within a square metre anyway!) to non-walk around won't be too much of an adjustment, much less worse than I first thought when I realised I don't really move around very much anyway.

might be worth having a read of the @Sir TophamHatt

 

edit

 

and this 

 

https://www.modelrailforum.com/forums/blog/neil_s_wood/index.php?showentry=228

 

 

Edited January 3, 2021 by pheaton