Mk1 Restaurant Buffet RB

[Clive Mortimore]

4 hours ago, westie7 said:

 

These coach diagrams have been going round in my head..

Unless I'm mistaken, based on the images they have used (which I hope they have asked permission for) i see diagrams 23,24,26 

and thats just looking at doors and windows, i daren't look at roofs 

 

Rgds

Mark

 

Hi Mark

 

I have been on the Hornby site (again) and looked at the photos they are using to advertise these coaches. Six out of the eight are diagram 24s, three kitchen doors and an emergency door on the corridor side . For some strange reason R4973A is a diagram 28 (ex RF diagram 17) , two kitchen doors and a public access door and R4974A is a diagram 23A, (ex RU diagram 23)  two kitchen doors and an emergency door.

 

Normally when Hornby announce two coaches in the same livery using the same R number but one having a A suffix they are the same moulding and paint job just an alternative running number, not a completely different tool. And if they are doing different bodies that is 3 different types, quite distinct from each other, wow.

 

I think they have made a little mistake and they mean to make 8 different diagram 24s, it would be nice for them to do the others  as well. Only time will tell.

[westie7]

8 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi Mark

 

I have been on the Hornby site (again) and looked at the photos they are using to advertise these coaches. Six out of the eight are diagram 24s, three kitchen doors and an emergency door on the corridor side . For some strange reason R4973A is a diagram 28 (ex RF diagram 17) , two kitchen doors and a public access door and R4974A is a diagram 23A, (ex RU diagram 23)  two kitchen doors and an emergency door.

 

Normally when Hornby announce two coaches in the same livery using the same R number but one having a A suffix they are the same moulding and paint job just an alternative running number, not a completely different tool. And if they are doing different bodies that is 3 different types, quite distinct from each other, wow.

 

I think they have made a little mistake and they mean to make 8 different diagram 24s, it would be nice for them to do the others  as well. Only time will tell.

 

Cheers Clive

 

So all my previous research prior to dismantling a Mainline RBR wasn't in vain, and I'm not going nuts.

I had R4973A as a 26 as I couldn't find reference to a 28 to check, and I agree about R4974A (23A)

 

we'll see 

[Clive Mortimore]

14 minutes ago, westie7 said:

 

Cheers Clive

 

So all my previous research prior to dismantling a Mainline RBR wasn't in vain, and I'm not going nuts.

I had R4973A as a 26 as I couldn't find reference to a 28 to check, and I agree about R4974A (23A)

 

we'll see 

Hi Mark

 

The ex RFs in the 16xx range are diagram 28 and those in the 17xx series are diagram 26, externally the only difference seems to be a window on kitchen side of the 28 behind the buffet is blanked off. The diagrams in the Longworth book on BR coaches show a slightly different layout in the buffet area of the coach as well.

[Trainshed Terry]

One day it would be great if there was a Kitchen car MK1.

 

Terry.

[Mallard60022]

24 minutes ago, Trainshed Terry said:

One day it would be great if there was a Kitchen car MK1.

 

Terry.

You could get one using Comet/Southern Pride (think they do them) sides on a cut and shut, or alternatively a 'Heinz' variety Kit (e.g. Southern Pride parts + other part  such as White Metal fittings from Comet). Cost of a new RTR if it ever appears, would probably be around £40/50 (+ postage). Cost of do it yourself  cut and shut is:- donor + sides (about £14) + bits for roof etc. decals, paint and maybe bogies); cost of a commission cut and shut build for you, about £40 not including painting, + all the parts required.  I think a S'n Pride hybrid kit would be about £20?

Phil

[Clive Mortimore]

2 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

You could get one using Comet/Southern Pride (think they do them) sides on a cut and shut, or alternatively a 'Heinz' variety Kit (e.g. Southern Pride parts + other part  such as White Metal fittings from Comet). Cost of a new RTR if it ever appears, would probably be around £40/50 (+ postage). Cost of do it yourself  cut and shut is:- donor + sides (about £14) + bits for roof etc. decals, paint and maybe bogies); cost of a commission cut and shut build for you, about £40 not including painting, + all the parts required.  I think a S'n Pride hybrid kit would be about £20?

Phil

Or rake around you bits and bobs and make a diagram 30 Griddle car.

 

 

But this thread isn't about what you can do if you want to or me being a show off, it is about Hornby's proposed/soon to be produced models and I for one am welcoming their choice if it is a diagram 24.

 

Other RTR Mk1, LNER, LMS, GWR and SR catering carriages would also be welcomed.

There are more bits to Joseph the multi-coloured carriage on this side.

[BernardTPM]

You missed out the 'Great Western' Mk.1 bits Clive, tut tut!

[Wickham Green]

3 hours ago, BernardTPM said:

You missed out the 'Great Western' Mk.1 bits Clive, tut tut!

..... not forgetting Raspberry Ripple, Network SouthEast & Sealink .............................

Edited January 8, 2020 by Wickham Green

[BernardTPM]

4 minutes ago, Wickham Green said:

..... not forgetting Raspberry Ripple, Network SouthEast & Sealink .............................

Ah, but the old (pre-1980s) Tri-ang Mk.1s weren't done in those liveries.

Edited January 8, 2020 by BernardTPM

[Wickham Green]

OK - but maybe Clive should've cut in a few bits of pseudo-teak Thompson coach !!?!

[BernardTPM]

Yes, why not?

[Down_Under]

If the RB related to the earlier diagram 24 does that mean that the RB(R) most likely represents diagram 33? which were turned out post 1970? and thus from looking at the Parkin book should have a slightly different door layout? (as they came from a variety of sources?)

 

 

[Clive Mortimore]

24 minutes ago, Down_Under said:

If the RB related to the earlier diagram 24 does that mean that the RB(R) most likely represents diagram 33? which were turned out post 1970? and thus from looking at the Parkin book should have a slightly different door layout? (as they came from a variety of sources?)

 

 

It would be nice to see Hornby make three separate sets of tools to be able to produce all three body variations that were listed as diagram 33 (which combined dia 24, 28 and 29) after they were refurbished. To be honest I cannot see that happening.

[Enterprisingwestern]

33 minutes ago, Down_Under said:

If the RB related to the earlier diagram 24 does that mean that the RB(R) most likely represents diagram 33? which were turned out post 1970? and thus from looking at the Parkin book should have a slightly different door layout? (as they came from a variety of sources?)

 

 

 

Welcome to the complex world of BR catering cars!

 

Mike.

[Phil Bullock]

Suspect

1 hour ago, Clive Mortimore said:

It would be nice to see Hornby make three separate sets of tools to be able to produce all three body variations that were listed as diagram 33 (which combined dia 24, 28 and 29) after they were refurbished. To be honest I cannot see that happening.

 

Am sure Clive is right - will be a single tooling. Either the later ones will be wrong - or did any unrefurbished RBs make it in to the 80s - or the early ones will be wrong. Suspect the former ....

1 hour ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Welcome to the complex world of BR catering cars!

 

Mike.

 

And as Mike says is complex, we already have a blue/grey grisley botchup in the Abbotswod stock waiting to be bashed to a more appropriate configuration. 

 

DId the WR complicate things further by having roof tanks in their allocation - as with RUs?

Edited January 9, 2020 by Phil Bullock

[kevinlms]

38 minutes ago, Phil Bullock said:

Suspect

 

Am sure Clive is right - will be a single tooling. Either the later ones will be wrong - or did any unrefurbished RBs make it in to the 80s - or the early ones will be wrong. Suspect the former ....

 

And as Mike says is complex, we already have a blue/grey grisley botchup in the Abbotswod stock waiting to be bashed to a more appropriate configuration. 

 

DId the WR complicate things further by having roof tanks in their allocation - as with RUs?

It does sound gristly!

[Wickham Green]

The word was grisley ....... you'll have to bear with him !

[BernardTPM]

An advantage of the RB is that externally it didn't significantly change when rebuilt to RBR. The RU conversions lost a window where the buffet was added so cannot accurately be painted in anything later than blue/grey livery.

Edited January 9, 2020 by BernardTPM

[Enterprisingwestern]

2 hours ago, Phil Bullock said:

Suspect

 

Am sure Clive is right - will be a single tooling. Either the later ones will be wrong - or did any unrefurbished RBs make it in to the 80s - or the early ones will be wrong. Suspect the former ....

 

And as Mike says is complex, we already have a blue/grey grisley botchup in the Abbotswod stock waiting to be bashed to a more appropriate configuration. 

 

DId the WR complicate things further by having roof tanks in their allocation - as with RUs?

 

They'll probably have corridor end steps too!

 

Mike.

[Bomag]

Reference to Dia 33 without reference to the TOPS code is misleading.

 

RBR ex RB is AJ403

RBR ex RU is AJ414

 

Both are referenced as Dia 33.

 

As Bernard said although there are detail difference there were no major bodyside mods for ex RB RBRs 

 

In response to the question about un-referbished RB, 19 were still in service on 1st Jan 1980 but the last to survive, 1669, was withdrawn June (Longworth) or Aug (Butlin) 1981 

[MJI]

Only way to accurately model a BR buffet or restaurant  is to find a picture of your exact vehicle.

 

Ended up having to fill the extra window on my refurbished RU, dismantled then soldered some brass behind the removed windows.

[brushman47544]

On ‎07‎/‎01‎/‎2020 at 13:07, gordon s said:

I wonder why Hornby didn't offer an 'E' to go with the M, S and W versions.

 

Because the first batch of EVERY coach Bachmann produces has an E prefix and Hornby very sensibly does something different.

 

The RBR being produced by Hornby is essential for anyone modelling cross-country Inter City services in the 1980s and 90s. Of the other catering vehicles only the RMB is much use in this period.

[MJI]

1 hour ago, brushman47544 said:

 

Because the first batch of EVERY coach Bachmann produces has an E prefix and Hornby very sensibly does something different.

 

The RBR being produced by Hornby is essential for anyone modelling cross-country Inter City services in the 1980s and 90s. Of the other catering vehicles only the RMB is much use in this period.

 

The Western region used quite a few RBR(RU) the W19xx stock, mine is Comet over Lima.

 

The RB was also the best Mark 1 model prior to Bachmann flush glazed stuff.

[mdvle]

On 07/01/2020 at 15:54, Clive Mortimore said:

Normally when Hornby announce two coaches in the same livery using the same R number but one having a A suffix they are the same moulding and paint job just an alternative running number, not a completely different tool. And if they are doing different bodies that is 3 different types, quite distinct from each other, wow.

 

I think they have made a little mistake and they mean to make 8 different diagram 24s, it would be nice for them to do the others  as well. Only time will tell.

 

I agree, likely a mistake based on the price.  If they were tooling up variations I would expect the RRP to be higher, like the Coronation Scot coaches.

[mdvle]

On 07/01/2020 at 08:06, Enterprisingwestern said:

If they've "discovered" catering cars maybe an upgrade to the Gresley version for it's later life might be oin the cards?

 

Don't know if it was ever an official statement from Hornby, but my recollection from 2 years ago when they tooled up the Maunsell Kitchen/Dining First was that it was indicated if that did well enough Hornby would look into doing other food oriented cars.