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Mk1 Restaurant Buffet RB


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47 minutes ago, mdvle said:

 

Don't know if it was ever an official statement from Hornby, but my recollection from 2 years ago when they tooled up the Maunsell Kitchen/Dining First was that it was indicated if that did well enough Hornby would look into doing other food oriented cars.


Hence the RB(R) !

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The Hornby models will be Diag 24. As noted earlier in the thread, the refurbished ones did not change significantly externally. Take care with 'RBR' as it can mean one of at least three different carriage types, the other two main ones being rebuilds of Diag 23 RU and Diag 17 RF (which had already been converted to Diag 26 or 28 RB(K)).

 

Two of the running numbers listed by Hornby are wrong and will (hopefully) be changed. They are aware of the issue.

 

The only livery of note they are not listing is chocolate and cream as the WR ones will be maroon. 

 

The Diag 24 carriages were in the number range 1644-1699 and 1702-1772. 

 

It is the same one that Mainline did 39 years ago. Whilst an excellent model for its time, I believe Hornby is justified in doing a new one as the old Mainline one did not have flush glazing and the livery rendition was not up to modern standards (not that Hornby's bizarre interpretation of Rail Blue and Rail Grey is any good either). 

 

It is a very different carriage to the RU that Bachmann has done, or at least it is once you start looking. 

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20 minutes ago, Down_Under said:

 

Thank you for those.

 

So, looks like with renumber, the RB(R) in B+G can be used to represent RB's in B+G.

 

 

 

Externally difficult to tell the difference, but with the 19xx I had to block off at least two windows, but as the 10l R.U.B. with it in is 4 or 5 down, not looking today.

 

Anyway today is aircon day, working on a 2D BFK, and priming 2F FO and 3x 2D TSO

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13 minutes ago, MJI said:

 

Externally difficult to tell the difference, but with the 19xx I had to block off at least two windows, but as the 10l R.U.B. with it in is 4 or 5 down, not looking today.

 

Anyway today is aircon day, working on a 2D BFK, and priming 2F FO and 3x 2D TSO

Yes, the RU rebuilds to RB had window changes on the kitchen side. This was a conversion from RU done for me by Brian Kirby:

34962983743_01025fef08_c.jpgP1070653am by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

This is not what Hornby are doing.

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6 minutes ago, robertcwp said:

Yes, the RU rebuilds to RB had window changes on the kitchen side. This was a conversion from RU done for me by Brian Kirby:

34962983743_01025fef08_c.jpgP1070653am by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

This is not what Hornby are doing.

 

I used pictures of the actual vehicle, anyway all the ex RUs on WR ran on B5s

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20 minutes ago, MJI said:

 

I used pictures of the actual vehicle, anyway all the ex RUs on WR ran on B5s

Indeed, as they were converted from batches of RU that did not have CW bogies and also that had roof tanks and the larger window opposite the pantry area.

 

Like this one, which is a Southern Pride kit which I originally built with printed sides and Brian Kirby rebuilt with etched brass sides:

35384993880_57533f3143_c.jpgRestaurant Buffet variants by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

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Hi,

 

I'm watching this subject with interest as I'd like to model this vehicle, No.325, formerly in use with VSOE at Stewarts Lane, London.

I think it is still in use with Northern Belle these days ?

 

325a.JPG.9a5856706eb6f8fc96a5af98e1cec9c9.JPG

 

325.JPG.777af967cc50679bc8f11556cce9a9d2.JPG

 

I can't work out what type it is, or is it yet another VSOE heavily modded Mk1 ?

 

My question being, is the new Hornby release going to match this particular vehicle type ?

 

Many Thanks,

 

Kindest Regards,

 

Shed.

 

 

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That pic (Robert's pic of the two b/g coaches) is useful as the upper coach is the RB(K) (ex-RF) - while the sides are generally similar to the RB, these coaches were the only catering vehicles to have a conventional entrance vestibule at the saloon end (i.e. as on a normal seated coach) The ex-RU only had doors into the saloon or corridor. The saloon ones were emergency exits and had no droplights, the corridor ones were 'door-and-a-third' for staff access.

The RB had an extra door w/droplight opposite the buffet, on the corridor side.

Also, the ex-RU were the only ones to have a door between the two shallow kitchen windows

 

Shedmaster, going by the number that is a dia.17 RF and it looks to be original (i.e. no buffet counter) - these were the ones which became dia.26 or 28 RB(K)

Edited by keefer
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Found on Eastbank Model Railway club website. 

 

Caption - "This vehicle had been refurbished and had loose unclassified seating for 23 diners. It is seen at Glasgow Central in January 1978"

 

M1959, anyone want to fill me in on the Diagram number?

 

When winter was actually winter :D

 

CS0150.jpg

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According to Longworth, this was dia.27 (ex-RU dia.23). Not sure if it counts as 'refurbished' (as in RBR) at that date, more that it has had a buffet counter fitted.

Edited by keefer
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14 minutes ago, keefer said:

According to Longworth, this was dia.27 (ex-RU dia.23). Not sure if it counts as 'refurbished' (as in RBR) at that date, more that it has had a buffet counter fitted.

I believe rebuilding to RB(S) of Diag 27 RU type took place prior to the refurbishment programme, which was largely internal - fluorescent lighting in a lowered ceiling, new equipment in the kitchen, dreadful plastic seats, etc. 

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50 minutes ago, keefer said:

That pic (Robert's pic of the two b/g coaches) is useful as the upper coach is the RB(K) (ex-RF) - while the sides are generally similar to the RB, these coaches were the only catering vehicles to have a conventional entrance vestibule at the saloon end (i.e. as on a normal seated coach) The ex-RU only had doors into the saloon or corridor. The saloon ones were emergency exits and had no droplights, the corridor ones were 'door-and-a-third' for staff access.

The RB had an extra door w/droplight opposite the buffet, on the corridor side.

Also, the ex-RU were the only ones to have a door between the two shallow kitchen windows

 

Shedmaster, going by the number that is a dia.17 RF and it looks to be original (i.e. no buffet counter) - these were the ones which became dia.26 or 28 RB(K)

Although my RF rebuild (another Brian Kirby SPM etched sides job) is intended to represent one post-refurbishment, when the buffet seating was increased to 18. It's based on a photo in the Parkin book.

 

I'm not sure that the Parkin book is entirely accurate on Diag 17 rebuilds. From what I can establish, all the rebuilds were to Diag 26, with no external changes and a window behind the buffet counter. Further rebuilding of some to Diag 28 involved blanking off that window and altering the buffet area again so that it could be locked. I'm not sure whether the remaining first class seating went at that stage or not. Not all were refurbished but those that were had 18 plastic chairs I believe. 

 

This is another Brian Kirby job - a rebuild of a Bachmann RU with Comet sides as a Diag 26. I think more of the left-hand window on this side could do with being painted orange as photos suggest the curtains behind the buffet counter were usually closed or more-or-less so. 

 

34962983213_9178fc1d93_c.jpgP1070658am by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

Again, it's based on a photo:

15158373865_553eb65343_c.jpgM1634_Nottingham_6-9-80 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

Edit: And looking again at the photo, it could do with a representation of the shelf across the third window from the right. Note that the first-class seating in two bays is retained, although not branded as such.

Edited by robertcwp
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What I didn't realise was a lot of the RB(K) only had 12 seats and these were the original fixed seats (as shown in your pic - one bay went to the buffet and another to a standing area)

As has been commented before, all of these vehicles are a minefield and a pic doesn't always help as a lot of the changes were internal!

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2 hours ago, robertcwp said:

325 was a Diag 17 RF which escaped rebuilding as a buffet car because it was used in the Royal Train. I believe it is the only survivor in largely original condition.

Of course! Completely forgot that 325 was pretty original as it was famously a Royal for many years, it's even covered in Parkin. D'oh!

 

Had a look in the 1979 P5 book re: the RB(K) and their seating.

It has M1618-43(no 1624) and M1773-80 

M1629/34/37 & 1773/4/7-9 have their original 12 first-class type seats, the rest had been refurbished and have '12 polypropylene chairs and fluorescent lighting' i.e. now RBR

Caution required though, as the same book has M1959 (from above) still as RU with 33 loose seats.

EDIT: misread the info - apart from a few exceptions, most had been rebuilt into RB(S) with buffet counter, 23 fixed polypropylene chairs and all of those had now been refurbished inc. fluorescent lighting i.e. now RBR

 

So the refurbishment of all types into RBR was well underway by 1979 - I'd assumed that it was more early '80s.

Edited by keefer
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2 hours ago, keefer said:

What I didn't realise was a lot of the RB(K) only had 12 seats and these were the original fixed seats (as shown in your pic - one bay went to the buffet and another to a standing area)

As has been commented before, all of these vehicles are a minefield and a pic doesn't always help as a lot of the changes were internal!

And if you look very carefully at one of the photos in Parkin, you will see that the RBR ex-RB(K) modelled above has tables in three bays and had been up-seated to 18. I have seen interior shots confirming this too.

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10 hours ago, robertcwp said:

325 was a Diag 17 RF which escaped rebuilding as a buffet car because it was used in the Royal Train. I believe it is the only survivor in largely original condition.

 

324 on NYMR is in mostly original condition, it was withdrawn in December 1980 as a RF

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11 hours ago, westie7 said:

Found on Eastbank Model Railway club website. 

 

Caption - "This vehicle had been refurbished and had loose unclassified seating for 23 diners. It is seen at Glasgow Central in January 1978"

 

M1959, anyone want to fill me in on the Diagram number?

 

When winter was actually winter :D

 

CS0150.jpg

 

Given the stock it was working with it is likely to be an AJ414 RBR, I am not certain which, if any, RBS were air braked before being converted to RBR, this coach was air braked dual heated and withdrawn 1993/94 

Edited by Bomag
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9 hours ago, Bomag said:

 

324 on NYMR is in mostly original condition, it was withdrawn in December 1980 as a RF

Good point, I had forgotten that one. It was the other one that escaped RB(K) conversion as I think it was also kept for possible Royal Train use at one time. There was a photo of it in blue/grey in a Manchester Pullman set somewhere, but I cannot now recall where. 

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On 11/01/2020 at 18:37, mdvle said:

 

Don't know if it was ever an official statement from Hornby, but my recollection from 2 years ago when they tooled up the Maunsell Kitchen/Dining First was that it was indicated if that did well enough Hornby would look into doing other food oriented cars.

They seem to have shot themselves in  the foot by not doing it in lined Maunsell green ...... lost them a lot of sales judging by comments ! ( I'm in the process of back-dating mine from BR to SR malachite.)

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4 minutes ago, Wickham Green said:

They seem to have shot themselves in  the foot by not doing it in lined Maunsell green ...... lost them a lot of sales judging by comments ! ( I'm in the process of back-dating mine from BR to SR malachite.)

Yup, that particular coach is niche if you are doing BR, even if it is solely a SR layout. Not wishing to stray off D24 (thanks Robert for confirming that about the Mk1 and thus making my prospected conversions [sides already waiting] a vanity project), so I'll not move on to talking about  other SR/BRSR Dining Cars. 

P

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