RMweb Premium keefer Posted January 13, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 13, 2020 (edited) On 13/01/2020 at 09:54, robertcwp said: Good point, I had forgotten that one. It was the other one that escaped RB(K) conversion as I think it was also kept for possible Royal Train use at one time. There was a photo of it in blue/grey in a Manchester Pullman set somewhere, but I cannot now recall where. Courtesy Eastbank MRC, M324 at Manchester Piccadilly in May 1980: Some more catering vehicles at http://www.eastbank.org.uk/br_coaches.htm Edited May 31, 2022 by keefer 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertcwp Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 16 minutes ago, keefer said: Courtesy Eastbank MRC, M324 at Manchester Piccadilly in May 1980 Some more catering vehicles at http://www.eastbank.org.uk/br_coaches.htm Thanks, that's the one. I suspect it was substituting for a missing Pullman kitchen first. I have seen other photos with a full kitchen car performing the role. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidw Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 Was there much or any external difference between prototype and production RBs? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark54 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 The prototype Mk1 RB was to Diagram 21. On the corridor side it differed in that there was a large corridor window (rather the 3/4 size) to the right of the door to the pantry. To the left of this door however was a 3/4 size window (rather than full size which is an error in the Diagram). On the kitchen side there were 2 doors (rather than 1) adjacent to the saloon and the 2 reduced depth kitchen windows were further apart than the production RBs. It had roof water tanks with filler pipes along the centre. It also looks to have had non-standard roof vents over saloon end. It was built with heavy duty Standard bogies but was later fitted with B5 bogies. The prototype RB was built without externally fitted window frames in a non standard maroon livery. Later on due to corrosion, strengthening strips were added around the windows (which gives the appearance of externally fitted frames). 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaneofFife Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 R4974A is this an LMR coach? no number next to the Hornby ref yet the one above R4974 shows IC1667. both era 8. Looking for a suitable early 1980s anglo scottish WCML RBR not sure which to pre-order unless the numbers are to be the same but one blue/grey one ic executive but then wouldnt it have a different era number too?. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertcwp Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, ThaneofFife said: R4974A is this an LMR coach? no number next to the Hornby ref yet the one above R4974 shows IC1667. both era 8. Looking for a suitable early 1980s anglo scottish WCML RBR not sure which to pre-order unless the numbers are to be the same but one blue/grey one ic executive but then wouldnt it have a different era number too?. For early 1980s, you need the blue/grey ones. IC livery did not appear until the mid-1980s. So R4793 (M1712) and R4793A (listed as M1627 but this number is incorrect for the diagram they are doing and will hopefully be changed). R4794 and R4794A are InterCity 'Executive' livery without regional prefixes to their numbers. R4794A is listed as 1981 but this number is incorrect for the diagram being modelled and will hopefully change. I can't remember exactly which year the livery began to be applied but it was around 1984/5. Edited January 14, 2020 by robertcwp Further information. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mophead45143 Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 (edited) Does anyone know which Mk1 buffet type were generally used on the St Pancras to Sheffield services in the 1970's please? I'm modelling the year 1977 to be precise. I am led to believe it is the RBR's. These were the ETH services hauled by 45/1's, and with the exception of the buffet, were made up of Mk2 air-cons. While we're on the subject, does anyone know if these were predominantly Mk2E's or Mk2F's? Photographic evidence shows a mixture of both, but MK2E's appear to be more common. Sorry to go slightly off topic, but any help would be much appreciated! Regards, Cameron Edited April 17, 2020 by Mophead45143 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium brushman47544 Posted April 17, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 17, 2020 (edited) 16 hours ago, Mophead45143 said: Does anyone know which Mk1 buffet type were generally used on the St Pancras to Sheffield services in the 1970's please? I'm modelling the year 1977 to be precise. I am led to believe it is the RBR's. These were the ETH services hauled by 45/1's, and with the exception of the buffet, were made up of Mk2 air-cons. While we're on the subject, does anyone know if these were predominantly Mk2E's or Mk2F's? Photographic evidence shows a mixture of both, but MK2E's appear to be more common. Sorry to go slightly off topic, but any help would be much appreciated! Regards, Cameron Correct. Mk2Es and RBRs predominated, even into the early 80s. Edit: Here's a typical 1980/81 formation: https://www.flickr.com/photos/156282187@N06/49471954826/ Edited April 17, 2020 by brushman47544 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomag Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 16 hours ago, Mophead45143 said: Does anyone know which Mk1 buffet type were generally used on the St Pancras to Sheffield services in the 1970's please? I'm modelling the year 1977 to be precise. I am led to believe it is the RBR's. These were the ETH services hauled by 45/1's, and with the exception of the buffet, were made up of Mk2 air-cons. While we're on the subject, does anyone know if these were predominantly Mk2E's or Mk2F's? Photographic evidence shows a mixture of both, but MK2E's appear to be more common. Sorry to go slightly off topic, but any help would be much appreciated! Regards, Cameron At the end of 1979 the LMR had 39 air braked (or DB) RBR exRB (all but 3 in the 17xx range) and just under 20 AB RBR exRU or RU(B) - I am not certain of the allocation for Cricklewood in 77 but Derby had apparently both types. While TSOs were something like 80%+ Mk2e, FOs look to be a bit more mixed with Mk2f with some Mk2d FOs and even a couple of FKs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mophead45143 Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 Thank you Brushman & Bomag! I thought that seemed about right. From photos, the most common formation for these trains appears to be: TSO, TSO, TSO, TSO, BSO, RBR, FO, FO, FO (totaling 9). However, there are plenty of pictures showing random variances in formation. For example, position of the BSO in the train, or sometimes a missing TSO or FO, reducing the total to 8 vehicles. The odd Mk2c Fk, Mk2c BFK & Mk2d BFK sometimes put in an appearance in photos too. I plan to convert several of my Bachmann Mk2F TSO's & FO's into Mk2E's using the excellent guide provided by Flood in the Mk2 a/c thread: Anyway, I'll stop going on about Mk2's on a MK1 Buffet thread! Thanks again, Cameron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D6775 Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 Apologies for resurrecting a thread and I know this was mainly in regards to the Hornby RBR but I am in the process of building up an Easybuild Dia 24 RB as an RBR (1650) for a charter rake. Now I think I have the right number for the kit, but what I am struggling with is the position of vents etc on the roof. The Instructions are pretty good, but suggest that all the shell vents are along the centre line (I am not 100% convinced they are not off centre) but all the pictures I can find seem to suggest there are others off set to this line? Any help on the positioning of the roof details would be greatly appreciated. Note the picture bellow has the roof for an FO on it temporally as its the only one I have added any details too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted October 4, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 4, 2020 Hi Al For a charter rake guess you are doing something later? I am doing an early 70s RKB. The diagram for the original vehicle on the Barrowmore web site shows all shell vents on the centre line... Cheers 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D6775 Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 37 minutes ago, Phil Bullock said: Hi Al For a charter rake guess you are doing something later? I am doing an early 70s RKB. The diagram for the original vehicle on the Barrowmore web site shows all shell vents on the centre line... Cheers Thanks, it'll be early 90's. I have found a drawing for the new Hornby one and it shows all bar 5 vents on the centre line. The two on the centre of the coach are offset and replicated on either side, then there is one at the far end offset after the circular vents. I think between this and studying numerous photographs I have sussed it. Well to my satisfaction anyway, I just need to fit the vents now, I have drilled out four roofs ready for the next four coaches now though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon s Posted December 22, 2020 Author Share Posted December 22, 2020 Well, it’s only taken the best part of a year, but two coaches are winging their way here from Hattons........ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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