fresnel Posted December 29, 2010 Share Posted December 29, 2010 Hi Colin, Before you commit yourself to Kadees, you should at least consider Sergent couplings which are visually superior to Kadees. See the following links: http://sergentengineering.com/ http://www.proto87.c...d-couplers.html And here in a UK application: http://homepage.ntlw...n/couplers.html Are the platforms at Newhaven Harbour permissive, i.e. will they be used for coupling/ uncoupling? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted December 29, 2010 Author Share Posted December 29, 2010 Hi Colin, Before you commit yourself to Kadees, you should at least consider Sergent couplings which are visually superior to Kadees. See the following links: http://sergentengineering.com/ http://www.proto87.c...d-couplers.html And here in a UK application: http://homepage.ntlw...n/couplers.html Are the platforms at Newhaven Harbour permissive, i.e. will they be used for coupling/ uncoupling? Many thanks for those links re. Sergent couplers fresnel. I have never heard of them before, but they do look like the answer. The coupled EMUs will have to contend with 36" radius curves, so I'm not sure that any couplings can be mounted on the buffer beams. The whole idea of coupling the units would be to represent peak-time services on the layout, then running single units at other times. The uncoupling would be done in the fiddle yard, so no there would be problem with special uncoupling devices to install at the station. Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Bus Driver Posted December 29, 2010 Share Posted December 29, 2010 Colin (The Evil HAP Maker) Love it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasatcopthorne Posted December 29, 2010 Share Posted December 29, 2010 Thanks Dave, ......... I am going to model unit 5601 as in the pictures. It does seem to have a slightly larger BR arrow logo in the photos of it at Brighton. When were those pictures taken? Colin Colin 17th Nov 1974. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasatcopthorne Posted December 29, 2010 Share Posted December 29, 2010 Back to the HAP: I have now got around to the 2 HAP DMBS underframe detailing. I shall be studying your pictures closely so the mistakes of the first unit are not repeated. There is one piece of equipment I cannot see clearly, namely the compressor(?) that is suspended in a cradle towards the trailing bogie on the driver's/near side. I can clearly remember the noise they made and how the noise was transmitted into the compartments of the motor coaches. I presume the cradle limited the vibration. I know it is asking a lot but, any more pictures that show this area of the underframe Dave? Colin Colin. At the moment these are all I can find. They were taken at Selhurst when 4Sub motors were being converted into the current De-icer units. I believe the cradle and the compressor are almost identical from the outside. However, if you are not already a member of the Yahoo SEmG group it might be worth joining as a member there is clearly more knowlegeable than I am on the actual items. One shot is a Comp from a 4Sub and has the donor's unit number on it. Another shot clearly shows a refurbished comp on a frame. Hope this helps. May be Paul Wade can confirm (or otherwise) my assumptions. I'm only a photographer. :) . Colin. I'm glad you got me on this as it's made me have a good look through my negatives and I've realised what exactly I have. The reason is that I set out to capture details specifically for modelling and not necessarily for pretty publications. (although I do have some like that). I can PM you the full size scans if would like them. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted December 29, 2010 Author Share Posted December 29, 2010 Many thanks for the underframe photos Dave! That must be all the information anyone could need to make a compressor of this type. I got pretty close with overall shape, but the cradle is not as long as I have made it. Luckily it will be easy to change. (Edited 31-12-10. The last sentence did not make any sense - sorry!) Thanks again, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ark Royal Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 Many thanks for those links re. Sergent couplers fresnel. I have never heard of them before, but they do look like the answer. The coupled EMUs will have to contend with 36" radius curves, so I'm not sure that any couplings can be mounted on the buffer beams. The whole idea of coupling the units would be to represent peak-time services on the layout, then running single units at other times. The uncoupling would be done in the fiddle yard, so no there would be problem with special uncoupling devices to install at the station. Colin Now them there couplers look just the ticket.....although I've brought Kaydee already they look far more convincing. Thanks for the heads up Fresnel.....I've not come across these either. Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyddrail Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 Colin, Dave's info looks to be correct. His info confirms what NNK diagram shows and my own notes. Cheers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted December 31, 2010 Author Share Posted December 31, 2010 I have a question for Lyddrail and/or dasatcopthorne: I was once told that, over the years a unit was in service, the exact postitions of underframe equipment could change due to rusting of orignal fixing points. Fitters would then re-mount items as best they could. I have studied the latest photos on this topic and can't really see any sign of this being true. Any ideas?! (There does seem to be one small support for a pipe which has been moved to the right - visible in one picture, but no major alterations.) Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasatcopthorne Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 I have a question for Lyddrail and/or dasatcopthorne: I was once told that, over the years a unit was in service, the exact postitions of underframe equipment could change due to rusting of orignal fixing points. Fitters would then re-mount items as best they could. I have studied the latest photos on this topic and can't really see any sign of this being true. Any ideas?! (There does seem to be one small support for a pipe which has been moved to the right - visible in one picture, but no major alterations.) Colin Colin. I've not heard that one before. Whenever I've taken notes, photos or measurements, I've never noticed anything in a new position. However, I can see what you mean with the pipe support but I would say that the move was probably for some other reason as there seems to be no sign of corrosion in the original position. More likely to do with the support being too near the curve of the pipe. Perhaps it's the pipe that has been changed. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyddrail Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 Colin, I have no experiance of underframe items being moved, but my duties didn't cover this, doing overhauls at Chart Leacon, maintenance at St Leonards and Tunbridge Wells West. It could have happened. However, the moved bracket in pic 2? looks like the installation of the pipe work, this is an ex Sub motor having EP brakes installed and with an MG added for the first time 70v control wiring. So it is most likely not as it seems. Cheers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasatcopthorne Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 Note the times on the last two replies!!! How keen are we? Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasatcopthorne Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 Colin. Thinking on. Paul is probably right. The pipe is new and that is why there are chalked measurements on the crossbar, indicating where the supports are to be located. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasatcopthorne Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 Colin. I have a few measurements I took of the compressor. I'll dig them out later. Off out now. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted December 31, 2010 Author Share Posted December 31, 2010 Many thanks for the impressively sychronised repies Lyddrail and dasatcopthorne! Re: equipment moving position on underframes - I always thought that was an "old wives tale" . I now have all the references I need to complete the latest model and will not bore anyone with any duplicate descriptions of the final stages of construction. Painting is soon to be started, transfers are on their way from Modelmaster. HAP-py New Year to all of you "Southern Electric" people! Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted December 31, 2010 Author Share Posted December 31, 2010 Colin. I have a few measurements I took of the compressor. I'll dig them out later. Off out now. Dave Will be interesting to compare your measurements with those of the NN Kits drawing. I think everything is reasonably clear now that I have seen the photographs of the cradle. I confess that the cradle I had made was based on a picture on the NN Kits website which showed the underframe of their 2 EPB DMBSO. Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Bel Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 Hi All, Colin said HAP-py new year to us Southern Electric people. You better BEL-ieve it!!! Cheers for now, Ian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasatcopthorne Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 Will be interesting to compare your measurements with those of the NN Kits drawing. I think everything is reasonably clear now that I have seen the photographs of the cradle. I confess that the cradle I had made was based on a picture on the NN Kits website which showed the underframe of their 2 EPB DMBSO. Colin Colin. I'm very sorry to dissapoint but I can't now find the dimensioned sketch I made of a compressor. I seem to remember now that I may have sent it to either NNK's late Alistair or the now late owner of Phoenix Kits(now the Southern Railway Group kits). I have one of Phoenix castings and it looks about right. Sorry but I don't have a NNK one to compare it with. Some of my notes and smaller sketches lead me to beleive that there may have been two differing sizes of compressor (poss for 2 & 4 car units). I'll see if I can make enquries about this elsewhere. Sorry again, Colin. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted January 1, 2011 Author Share Posted January 1, 2011 Colin. I'm very sorry to dissapoint but I can't now find the dimensioned sketch I made of a compressor. I seem to remember now that I may have sent it to either NNK's late Alistair or the now late owner of Phoenix Kits(now the Southern Railway Group kits). I have one of Phoenix castings and it looks about right. Sorry but I don't have a NNK one to compare it with. Some of my notes and smaller sketches lead me to beleive that there may have been two differing sizes of compressor (poss for 2 & 4 car units). I'll see if I can make enquries about this elsewhere. Sorry again, Colin. Dave Don't worry about the compressor drawing Dave. I have got a reasonable shape from the NN KIts drawing. It was the cradle which bothered me. Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted January 6, 2011 Author Share Posted January 6, 2011 The Hap bodies are shown against a rather domestic background: The masking tape was gently peeled away, remembering all the time how the yellow paint came away on the tape in places on the first HAP. That is why there is now one roll of tape on the shelf marked "too tacky"! I have learnt other lessons from the first unit's painting process: This time the cab fronts were given two coats of yellow paint straight onto the plastic. I can't think why I had painted the bodies in light grey the first time, it caused difficulties with the covereage - is yellow paint more translucent than other colours? The sides just received two thin coats of roof colour as an under coat to the rail blue top finish this time. I am wondering if the flush glazing method of the first build is really going to be durable enough under exhibition conditions - it wouldn't be so good if the window panes dropped out in public! Following one of Coachmann's topics, I see that he has used 10 thou sheet for curved glazing on his Mk.1 coaches, so I might try that way as a trial run. As a postscript, there was near disaster when applying the top coat to the sides today. It was just as well that some of the seats were being painted first. There was water in the air supply! I had not anticipated that the air in the comprssor was still very cold despite getting the workshop space quite warm. The air in the hose must have condensed as it passed along to the airbrush. A quick blast through of the airline cured this and the sides were safely painted. It was a bit too close for comfort. P.P.S. Why were the grab handles (either side of the driver's access door), shorter on the trailer coach then the motor coach? Does anybody know?! Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I have learnt other lessons from the first unit's painting process: This time the cab fronts were given two coats of yellow paint straight onto the plastic. I can't think why I had painted the bodies in light grey the first time, it caused difficulties with the covereage - is yellow paint more translucent than other colours? It's a frequent problem and yes, yellow is one of those colours which covers poorly because of translucence - red is the other which gives grief - so a white undercoat is ideal for yellow, and not bad for red (though coach painting full size generally used a nice dusty pink for undercoating red), but you can usually get away with grey for that. Nice work though, good to see some 'proper' scratchbuilding. Adam Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 You can also use a red oxide primer for undercoating red - it gives a little more depth to the top coats. I found out about the yellow not covering well when painting a white metal bus into Luton & The Shires livery. I used the usual grey primer then sprayed the yellow, which dried to a sort of limey-greeny-yellow ... almost exactly the shade of green I needed for a London & Country bus I had painted earlier and failed to match what I wanted then !! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasatcopthorne Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 The Hap bodies are shown against a rather domestic background: P.P.S. Why were the grab handles (either side of the driver's access door), shorter on the trailer coach then the motor coach? Does anybody know?! Colin Colin. Your bit about the handrails being of differing lengths on DM and DT has been intriguing me since your posting. I have never noticed this before now and I've a made enough units to know better. So, I went back to the batch of photos taken at Brighton and checked on the handrails. Your are right in one sense but I am now certain they are the same sizes. However, what seems to happen is that the upper rails around a guard's compartment are set higher. I can see that this is because in their normal position(lower), they would interfere with the large lever that locks the outward opening door of the pair. This is interesting because the measurements I took for these handrails was from around a Guard's compt and they indicate that there was no difference from the DT dimensions. Albeit not an SR 2Hap. I'll have to go back over my old stuff and see what I've done with my handrails. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted January 10, 2011 Author Share Posted January 10, 2011 Colin. Your bit about the handrails being of differing lengths on DM and DT has been intriguing me since your posting. I have never noticed this before now and I've a made enough units to know better. So, I went back to the batch of photos taken at Brighton and checked on the handrails. Your are right in one sense but I am now certain they are the same sizes. However, what seems to happen is that the upper rails around a guard's compartment are set higher. I can see that this is because in their normal position(lower), they would interfere with the large lever that locks the outward opening door of the pair. This is interesting because the measurements I took for these handrails was from around a Guard's compt and they indicate that there was no difference from the DT dimensions. Albeit not an SR 2Hap. I'll have to go back over my old stuff and see what I've done with my handrails. Cheers Dave Hi Dave, I have just got back from a trip to Brighton! Re. the dreaded handrails: Of course you are right, there is no difference in the dimensions - the handrails in question are just set lower on the trailer coach. I had made the eight upper ones and never once noticed that they were all the same length. I made them to match the drawings rather than measuring the lengths. It was another fault with the first HAP that I had set the DTCL hand rails at the same height as the motor coach. Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted January 10, 2011 Author Share Posted January 10, 2011 It's a frequent problem and yes, yellow is one of those colours which covers poorly because of translucence - red is the other which gives grief - so a white undercoat is ideal for yellow, and not bad for red (though coach painting full size generally used a nice dusty pink for undercoating red), but you can usually get away with grey for that. Nice work though, good to see some 'proper' scratchbuilding. Adam Hi Adam, Thanks for the tips about undercoat colours. I've got away with the white of the plastic card as a base colour for the yellow (two coats though). The grey roof colour (Humbrol Matt 27) has proved to be a better undercoat for rail blue than the light grey that I have used in the past (but still needed two coats of blue). Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.