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TM2001's Workbench - “Kitbashing” Thomas the Tank Engine


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The models used in the TV series had a lot of compromises for reasons of filming practicality and the ability to use commercially available components. The narrow gauge engines in series 4, for instance, were overscale and Henry's back end has a crazy amount of overhang.  I suspect Stepney may well have had similar compromises - I think he looks a little large when paired with the Tenmille Stroudley coaches.

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Well, I did find references for the wagons, and they are definitely to 10mm scale.

 

I think I'll consider Stepney a special case. He seems to be the only inconsistency within the show's "scaling."

 

EDIT: So I guess my only question now is, is the old Mainline tooling brakevan compromised and not to scale? In pictures, it appears a bit vertically challenged compared to even the Hornby Railroad model. Here are a couple of pictures of my brakevan, to show which model I'm talking about.

20200528_105427.jpg

20200528_105443.jpg

Edited by TrainMan2001
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The Mainline BR brake van is stretched as the body is 17' 6" long against 16ft for the prototype. Odd enough the old (1967) Triang-Hornby  BR brake van has the correct length but it too wide. Hornby finally did an accurate version in 1982 (and have done a better detailed one more recently).

Both the Mainline and (Triang-)Hornby brakes were offered on a short chassis without end platforms representing a Toad E. Neither were the right length.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Obligatory (potentially) stupid and non-stupid question time. 

Has anyone done working inside motion on 4mm scale models before? I am thinking about doing that as part of this project, the only problem is that I can't find bearings to suit 3mm axles. There are some for slot cars, but they are really thick (they look to be around 4mm thick, which would take up most of the axle space). They also seem to be quite expensive compared to other bearings from the likes of Wizard Models (they sell bearings for a different axle diameter for around £2.50 for a pack of ten, compared to the slot car ones which are asking £4 for a pack of two). I've measured the axles themselves, and the part where bearings and the inside motion could go is around 13mm long. I've figured that I'll need around 5-6mm for the inside motion itself, depending on the thickness of brass used (for the sides of the cranked part that look like this: Гl ). I hope that makes sense, I don't know the actual terminology of that part. Thanks to anyone who can help with this!

 

Also, to prove that I have a plan and I intend to execute it this time, here's a picture showing the intended cab and bunker design. I even got some mini drill bits and a pin vice so that I can do the slots between the coal rails on the sides. I will begin making the cab as soon as I can (hopefully tonight).

 

20200616_121709(1)(1).jpg

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5 hours ago, TrainMan2001 said:

Obligatory (potentially) stupid and non-stupid question time. 

Has anyone done working inside motion on 4mm scale models before? I am thinking about doing that as part of this project, the only problem is that I can't find bearings to suit 3mm axles. There are some for slot cars, but they are really thick (they look to be around 4mm thick, which would take up most of the axle space). They also seem to be quite expensive compared to other bearings from the likes of Wizard Models (they sell bearings for a different axle diameter for around £2.50 for a pack of ten, compared to the slot car ones which are asking £4 for a pack of two). I've measured the axles themselves, and the part where bearings and the inside motion could go is around 13mm long. I've figured that I'll need around 5-6mm for the inside motion itself, depending on the thickness of brass used (for the sides of the cranked part that look like this: Гl ). I hope that makes sense, I don't know the actual terminology of that part. Thanks to anyone who can help with this!

 

Also, to prove that I have a plan and I intend to execute it this time, here's a picture showing the intended cab and bunker design. I even got some mini drill bits and a pin vice so that I can do the slots between the coal rails on the sides. I will begin making the cab as soon as I can (hopefully tonight).

 

20200616_121709(1)(1).jpg

 

Inside valve gear has certainly been modelled in 4mm scale. Not sure if it has been done in 00 where the reduced space between the frames is going to pose a problem.

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12 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

Inside valve gear has certainly been modelled in 4mm scale. Not sure if it has been done in 00 where the reduced space between the frames is going to pose a problem.

 

I have actually been somewhat open to converting to EM if necessary, and that would actually solve the bearing issue, because I could choose a different size axle. The only thing I was worried about was inability to do exhibitions, being in the United States. I don't think people do EM Gauge here. Although I shouldn't worry about that, since I that will all probably be a few years away.

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     After the whole "is it scaling properly" breakdown, I took a few weeks to think about what I'd really want from a "fine-scale Thomas" model. I was torn between trying to make the "most-accurate" Classic-style Thomas, and doing a hyper-realistic version to try to show some rivet counters that an engine with a face can be done realistically, but I wasn't really thinking about doing the thing that I wanted. Ironically, I guess, what I want to do kind of falls between the two options, leaning towards realism. I also want to push my boundaries to see what I can do (hence the talk of inside valve gear). Upon realizing that the Computer-Generated model of Thomas actually has the wheel size that matches the ones I'm using for Thomas, I decided that doing a model that takes my favorite elements from the RWS drawing, Classic TV model, CGI model, and real E2 would be more along the lines of what I want. Hence what is happening now (and it's actually happening).

     Today, what I did was cut the rear of the footplate off, so that I can graft in a smaller rear bufferbeam (and accommodate a cab floor) which is similar to how Thomas looks in both the RWS and the CGI series. I also cut out the cab sides, which takes inspiration from both the Classic Series and RWS. I'm also trying to cut out the false splashers from the running plate, so that I can make a new inner part to the running plate that can allow for inside motion to work and support the underside of the boiler (which will hold the motor). I also cut off the remainder of the filled-in cab from the Bachmann model.

     I also did a little bit to start a new project I might do on and off for a little while, since I kind of messed up the LMS CCT van kit while I was cleaning up the flashing on the sides. I cut down the van sides to be shorter, and with a little work, will be made into a "Pre-Grouping style" parcels van, which will be from an early Sodor railway (not decided on which one yet).

     The underframe of the van kit is a good length for me to do a Works-Unit coach, as seen in the first series, but will take the orange livery from the RWS/CGI series. I've always really liked that coach (weird, right?) because one of my first DVDs had Thomas and the Breakdown Train on it.

Here are some pictures:

 

 

 

20200619_134304.jpg

20200619_143414.jpg

20200619_143358.jpg

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I was able to get some files, and a new snap-blade knife, which cuts a lot better than my old one (an X-acto knife).

Because of that, I was able to start making a new running plate for Thomas (based on the one Dalby gave him in the books) because it seemed more realistic than the TV-style one. A real locomotive actually had the same type of running plate. I think it was Arthur Keen, which I think worked in a steelworks (there's a picture in the RTR bridging thread). I still have a lot of work to do on the running plate, but I am pretty happy with how it's turning out.

 

20200625_202724.jpg

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3 hours ago, TrainMan2001 said:

Because of that, I was able to start making a new running plate for Thomas (based on the one Dalby gave him in the books) because it seemed more realistic than the TV-style one. A real locomotive actually had the same type of running plate. I think it was Arthur Keen, which I think worked in a steelworks (there's a picture in the RTR bridging thread).

I found a Twitter post saying exactly that.

Yeah, I definitely agree. Give it circular spectacles and that's vintage Thomas.

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Yeah, I definitely agree. Give it circular spectacles and that's vintage Thomas.

 

The existing spectacles on those Dowlais locomotives make them look more like miniature locomotives, they put me in mind of "Katie", the loco built by Guest for Dudley Zoo :)

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I got the curve in the running plate to match on both sides, which was the most important thing (to me), before getting it put together.
20200628-165247.jpg
I also made a start on the cab windows, which are based on Reginald Payne's illustrations. I glued the sides together temporarily to drill the holes for the window. It's rough at the moment, but it will be worked on more.

20200628-162910.jpg

20200628-165220.jpg
And here's a picture showing what it looks like now (kind of).

20200628-165844.jpg

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Having thought long and hard about it, I have realized that working inside valve gear would probably be over the top, considering it likely wouldn't be seen from underneath, and on top, the splashers, tanks, and smokebox would be in the way. That said, does anyone know (or have pictures) of what representations of inside motion look like on kit-built and RTR locomotive's?

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Today I worked a little bit more on the running plate for Thomas. I first began working on making the holes for the wheels (since I'm now doing a Railway Series style Thomas, I'm thinking of going back to the larger wheels), but what I had glued together pretty much broke apart in my hand, which was frustrating. I decided that maybe 3d modeling (and exporting to ShapeWays) might be easier, but after watching tutorial videos, it seemed like it would be even more trouble, so I eventually decided to persevere. I then watched a video about boiling plasticard to make it easier to form into curves, and I began my first experiment with it, which seems to have been successful (I'll find out when I actually am able to glue it to the running plate). I also decided to try again with cutting holes for the wheels, and it's going much better this time, even if it's a little rough at the moment (like usual). I also was able to take apart my broken James, and I'm thinking of using his splashers for Thomas, since if I were to make James, I would start completely from scratch.

 

I am also eyeing James' chimney for a potential way to make a more accurate version (to Payne's illustrations) of Thomas' chimney, however I am also thinking of somehow doing a 3d model of it (and the dome) so that I can get a brass (or at least, fine detailed plastic) one from ShapeWays. However, I feel like the video tutorial that ShapeWays did for 3d modelling was kind of useless for this application, since the demo was about making (2d-like designs) jewelry. Does anyone know how something that's really 3d could be done? If not, that's alright, because I can still try to do the first option.

 

Here are the pictures:

20200703_221025.jpg

20200703_210515.jpg

Edited by TrainMan2001
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  • 1 month later...

I figured I might as well update this thread. I recently obtained a lot of crucial measurements of the original Gauge 1 Thomas, and, after looking at the production references more, I realized why I was so frustrated in trying to do an accurate Thomas model. The Bachmann model is a scale foot too wide and has a boiler that's too big in diameter. The original model had a boiler that was 44.4mm in diameter, which I believe scales to 17.8mm, and the Bachmann boiler is 18.5mm, even wider than I originally thought. So I've been spending a bit of time away from the project, and started a new one, which is here:

 

I feel like building in larger scales is somewhat easier, and I have been considering doing a Gauge 1 Thomas at some point as well. Another thing is that I was able to get measurements for the wheel diameter (without the flange) and it's 41.5mm, somewhere around 16.5mm in 4mm scale. I'm not sure that wheels of that diameter with 16 spokes exist, so that's another thing that makes me want to do an actual replica, since those wheels are available, even if it's not the easiest to find.

 

So that's where I stand on the project today. It's closed for now, but in future, I may revisit it, and I feel that if I have a physical replica, it'll be easier for me to scale down at some point. Hopefully you'll like my other project, though. I think I finally found my stride!

-TM2001

 

EDIT: So I guess it's possible to be a rivet counter even when there are no rivets to count.:blush::biggrin_mini2: What would that be called?

Edited by TrainMan2001
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  • TrainMan2001 changed the title to TM2001's Workbench - 3D Modelling Thomas

It's been a while, but I finally feel like I'm getting somewhere with this project (which is now back to making a "mini" TV replica)! After forcing myself to learn how to do 3D modelling, using Tinkercad after seeing @chuffinghell use it to excellent effect, I present this:
t725.png

 

Finally having the correct measurements, I was finally able to make an accurate 4mm Scale Thomas! Well, a scratch aid. There are some things I know I can do, so I left certain things out, such as the water filler caps and the taper on the funnel and dome. The nice thing is, the model is much closer to the correct height next to the Great Western style van now (I measured the height of the van and put a box with that height behind Thomas; I didn't get a picture of that).

 

Here's how he looks in the show (image from TTTE Wikia):

Savedfrom-Scrap2.png

 

Compared to the Bachmann model:

20190621-181005.jpg

 

The model should have enough room to work with a High Level Slimliner Gearbox driven by the middle axle. The inner mounts will be made of plasticard (since that's not visible, it won't matter as much how nicely I can cut) and the chassis is intended to be made of brass. There's a lot of open space inside for extra weight (I might only run DC, or non-fancy DCC).

 

I did a test upload to ShapeWays to see what the price would be. In the "Smoothest Fine Detail Plastic," the price would be over the $100 mark.... I don't think so. I think I'll choose "White Premium Versatile Plastic," which puts the price at just under $50. I'm expecting to have to do some cleaning of the parts anyway, so having a little more work isn't bad. Most people choose the "Natural" option for the plastic, which is why it's usually grainy, so hopefully it won't be as bad in "Premium." Although I have seen people make great models with the "Natural" option regardless.

 

It does feel good to have actually finished a project (or at least this part)!

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I worked a little bit on one of the faces today, giving it eyebrows made from electrical tape. They're so small it was kind of hard to cut, so I'm wondering how difficult more complex eyebrows will be. Luckily these faces appear to be small enough to fit the smaller boiler on my 3D model (they're around 0.75mm smaller than the Bachmann boiler, and the new boiler has a diameter of 17.76 compared to 18.5).

 

20200925-180239.jpg

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Today I primed my brakevan so I can repaint it, because the color Bachmann chose was really strange. The primer is kind of speckled on the sides, but I might leave it that way so that when I paint it, whatever doesn't stick will look like some weathering. I'm going to weather it anyway, so it'll hopefully just add to the effect.
20200928-211825.jpg

I also re-primed and painted the last Thomas face, which means they're all ready for eyebrows.
20200928-211758.jpg

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  • 5 months later...

After buying a model of Thomas in N Gauge, I think I'm ready to make coaches for him to pull. I'll be making Annie and Clarabel to suit how they were drawn by Dalby, and I've identified a length of ~44 ft. to be a fair match to Thomas' length in the TV series. I did have a question though. Annie and Clarabel are shown throughout the Railway Series as not having panelling. We also know that Thomas received them in 1925, and that they were considered old (hence 44 ft. being as acceptable as 48 ft. to me). Would it be untypical of a (likely) pre-grouping carriage to not have prominent panelling?

Percy-s-Promise-RS4.png

Thomasandthe-Guard-RS2-PNG.png

Images from TTTE Wikipedia

 

I know that GWR auto-trailers and Wisbech and Upwell coached don't appear to have prominent panelling. I'm just wondering because, although I'm keeping the faces, I'd like to get things to be plausible and realistic otherwise. Thanks for any advice you can give!

-TM2001

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5 hours ago, TrainMan2001 said:

After buying a model of Thomas in N Gauge, I think I'm ready to make coaches for him to pull. I'll be making Annie and Clarabel to suit how they were drawn by Dalby, and I've identified a length of ~44 ft. to be a fair match to Thomas' length in the TV series. I did have a question though. Annie and Clarabel are shown throughout the Railway Series as not having panelling. We also know that Thomas received them in 1925, and that they were considered old (hence 44 ft. being as acceptable as 48 ft. to me). Would it be untypical of a (likely) pre-grouping carriage to not have prominent panelling?

 

Perhaps they were ex-Lancashire & Yorkshire carriages? Not improbable, given the geography. In which case they were probably 49 ft, that being the standard length for L&Y bogie carriages built in large numbers around the turn of the century.

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Thanks for the reply and the plausible prototype@Compound2632! Additionally, I think that one of the Awdry's stated somewhere that Annie and Clarabel were turned into boogie coaches from either 4 or 6 wheel coaches. Theoretically, at least using 4 wheelers, that would allow them to be a bit shorter than 49 feet, correct?

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