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WILLIAM

Hornby R3750 Belmond Pullman Pack

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I've recently taken delivery of this pack but not knowing too much about Pullman coaches, other than it is a complicated subject, I have some tenative queries.

 

The three All Steel coaches in the pack (Zena, Ione & Lucille) have completely different underbodies than their prototypes currently have in service. Particulalry noticable is the lack of trusses and different bogie types. Hornby do however appear to model a Pullman underframe much more in keeping with those actually used today, as per their none-all steel version of the coaches (Ibis, Minerva etc.). Could they have not used these underfames to provide a more accurate model? Are the coach bodies interchangeable between the All Steel and none All Steel versions?

 

Lucille

 

 

image.png.974fff896c0e5f4f9059f8cb5f158d6c.png

 

 

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Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, WILLIAM said:

I've recently taken delivery of this pack but not knowing too much about Pullman coaches, other than it is a complicated subject, I have some tenative queries.

 

The three All Steel coaches in the pack (Zena, Ione & Lucille) have completely different underbodies than their prototypes currently have in service. Particulalry noticable is the lack of trusses and different bogie types. Hornby do however appear to model a Pullman underframe much more in keeping with those actually used today, as per their none-all steel version of the coaches (Ibis, Minerva etc.). Could they have not used these underfames to provide a more accurate model? Are the coach bodies interchangeable between the All Steel and none All Steel versions?

 

 

 

 

One has to be careful with Belmond / VOSE stock as the cars have had a number of modifications from their original forms.

 

As regards the All steel cars, I seem to recall reading that dummy truss underframe detail had been applied to make the cars look the same as the other Wood + steel sheeted cars in the fleet.

 

To replicate this properly would require Hornby to tool up a new underframe, which for obvious reasons has not been thought worthwhile.

 

If it bothers you that much then you can do what the VOSE did and add some dummy trussing to the vehicle.

 

VOSE also fitted ex Greasley designed bogies to their entire fleet as they gave a better ride - again Hornby have not tooled up for this particular change either.

 

Similarly IIRC there are a couple of 1950s built cars in the fleet that have had oval toilet windows added in place of their original rectangular ones for the same aesthetic reasons.

 

 

Edited by phil-b259
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6 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

 

To replicate this properly would require Hornby to tool up a new underframe, which for obvious reasons has not been thought worthwhile.

 

If it bothers you that much then you can do what the VOSE did and add some dummy trussing to the vehicle.

 

 

 

Thanks. Could Hornby not however have used the trussed underframes from their none All Steel version? (Assuming the coaches are the same length?)

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9 minutes ago, WILLIAM said:

 

Thanks. Could Hornby not however have used the trussed underframes from their none All Steel version? (Assuming the coaches are the same length?)

 

They could have done - but you need to be aware that would also be wrong!

 

The underframe equipment is positioned differently on each type so its not simply a matter of whether the underframe has a truss arrangement or not.

 

Granted the wood + steel type underframe may superficially look better as the trussing is very visible (hence why VOSE added it in the first place) but other bits won't be right.

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1 minute ago, phil-b259 said:

 

They could have done - but you need to be aware that would also be wrong!

 

The underframe equipment is positioned differently on each type so its not simply a matter of whether the underframe has a truss arrangement or not.

 

Granted the wood + steel type underframe may superficially look better as the trussing is very visible (hence why VOSE added it in the first place) but other bits won't be right.

Thanks again.

 

Given the premium nature of this product (and price) it's a shame Hornby couldn't have made a little more effort in the name of general accuracy in my opinion.

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VSOE made so many modifications to their stock that it would impossible for Hornby to correctly portray each individual vehicle in the rake. If they did that then the price per coach would be approaching what Rails charged for the Dynamometer Car. A pretty decent representation can be made of the full rake, especially now the Brighton Belle coaches are NEM pocket and not that stupid electrical connection they first had. 

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Hmm....I'm not asking for an exact match of every minor mod made by VSOE but the omission of the trusses is a fairly significant visual issue as discussed above.

 

Promoting the pack as the modern Belmond Pullman then taking a 'they'll do' attitude to the outdated coaches is a bit disappointing. Also don't forget that these coaches are working out at nearly £50 each so we are not talking Railroad here.

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3 hours ago, WILLIAM said:

Hmm....I'm not asking for an exact match of every minor mod made by VSOE but the omission of the trusses is a fairly significant visual issue as discussed above.

 

Promoting the pack as the modern Belmond Pullman then taking a 'they'll do' attitude to the outdated coaches is a bit disappointing. Also don't forget that these coaches are working out at nearly £50 each so we are not talking Railroad here.

I’m well aware of the price of coaches. I’ve spent the better part of £400 buying coaches to rename and detail interiors to get make the Belmond rake. The underframes are not just a straight swap however. There are subtle differences to where the clips holding the body on are, and the size and types of clip too, so modification would be needed for that. See my photo below. On the left is the All-Steel K-Type. Right is the original K-Type.
D46943F9-D8C5-4C76-98F9-48C8C956476E.jpeg.c2d95429cd8a6929871d8eb4bd1ca782.jpeg

There are only 3 All-Steel K-type Pullman’s in the British Pullman so it would be vastly unprofitable for Hornby to retool when, to be honest, the market for this train isn’t likely to be anywhere near as large as some other items. As people have said, it’s very easy to add the trussing yourself using plastic strips if it bothers you that much. 

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Posted (edited)

With the going price of this train pack in Australia at several outlets being less than GBP210.00 and prices in the UK being around GBP30.00 less than full retail (GBP299.99),  this train pack seems to be a little difficult to shift downunder.   Given the intense interest in UK trains in Australia I am wondering if perhaps today's modeller is more discerning and not willing to simply accept a cobbled together train pack, no matter how attractive it may be.   The loco alone retails downunder for around GBP145.00,  making the coaches in the pack relatively inexpensive.   To purchase the pack in the UK from one of the big discounters would cost GBP250.00 including airmail shipping to Australia.

 

Note: prices calculated using the current exchange rate  $1.00Aud = GBP0.52. 

Edited by GWR-fan
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