mike lee Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 In the recent batch of ready built 7mm wagons I bought were a couple of Lima 16T Minerals. I thought I would do a quick makeover to make them reasonably presentable, add new wheels and three link coupling and rework the brake gear etc, when I hit the first hurdle? The course plastic wheels are pin point. Can you get 7mm pin point replacement metal wheels, I have had a search and cannot locate any. Does anybody know please, if any manufacturer makes them and if so who and where can you get them from? Regards Mike Lee Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hal Nail Posted January 8, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 8, 2020 (edited) 13 minutes ago, mike lee said: Can you get 7mm pin point replacement metal wheels. Does anybody know please, if any manufacturer makes them and if so who and where can you get them from? Might be worth stating the distance between points you require as well. Replacements no use if the axles are too short or long... Edited January 8, 2020 by Hal Nail Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 Your makeover may not be as quick as you think. Peco do a 9' WB mineral wagon that is very good IMO. They also have FS wheels & brgs. I got wheels and chassis from Hattons. I don't know this particular Lima wagon, but examples I've seen make me want to reach for the anti nausea tablets. You might be better off just getting a Parkside kit. I do get it though, I spent a lot of time and effort building a horrendous kit from the 80s. Hard to see a wagon unfinished. There are limits. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 I had three, though they might have been Big Big Train, which has proper wheels. I suspect Slaters or Peco just pop in, I certainly don’t remember fitting proper bearings. I did fit some rather overscale three links to them, by simply melting the hook into the chassis with a soldering iron. the kids used their Mavis & Toby to bash them and a Lima Toad about for a while. I flogged them 5 years back. from memory, the bodies are not bad if a little thick. hth Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike lee Posted January 9, 2020 Author Share Posted January 9, 2020 Thanks for the replies everybody. Hal, I will be glad just to be able to get any 7mm pin point bearings, like the ones that are 'standard' in 4mm modelling. I will make them fit no problem. It will be easier than trying to adapt the standard Peco or Slaters wheels. Brossard, I already have them, they cost nowt, don't want to buy anymore. What I have in mind, if I can get the wheels, will take half an hour to do a reasonable mod to tag them onto the end of a train. Simond, Peco or Slaters wheels will not 'just' fit in, different end of axle fixing. Pin point axles, like the ones that are 'standard' in 4mm modelling are needed, for a quick fix anyway. If necessary I can adapt Peco or Slaters wheels to fit it will just take a bit longer. Please, does anybody know if you can get 7mm replacement metal wheels with pin point axle ends??? Regards Mike Lee Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hal Nail Posted January 9, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 9, 2020 2 hours ago, mike lee said: Thanks for the replies everybody. Hal, I will be glad just to be able to get any 7mm pin point bearings, like the ones that are 'standard' in 4mm modelling. I will make them fit no problem. It will be easier than trying to adapt the standard Peco or Slaters wheels. Brossard, I already have them, they cost nowt, don't want to buy anymore. What I have in mind, if I can get the wheels, will take half an hour to do a reasonable mod to tag them onto the end of a train. Simond, Peco or Slaters wheels will not 'just' fit in, different end of axle fixing. Pin point axles, like the ones that are 'standard' in 4mm modelling are needed, for a quick fix anyway. If necessary I can adapt Peco or Slaters wheels to fit it will just take a bit longer. Please, does anybody know if you can get 7mm replacement metal wheels with pin point axle ends??? Regards Mike Lee I thought Slaters and Peco were both pin point? Whats the difference? (ignorance on my part) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike lee Posted January 9, 2020 Author Share Posted January 9, 2020 Hal Sorry, Ignorance on my part, and bad use of words. The Wheels in the Lima 16 Mineral are like a 7mm version of the Hornby type wagon wheel. Where in its basic form, the end of the axle is ground to a pin point and just fits into a matching recess in the chassis moulding, no fancy brass cup etc. Whereas on the Slaters and Peco wheels, the shaft diameter is reduced, then the end ground to a pin point which fits into a long brass sleeve. I am just getting into 7mm and in my ignorance am using the terminology I used in 4mm which was pin point bearings as the Hornby type. i.e what I am after is a 7mm version of the Hornby style 4mm wheel. Looking at it now, the reason I cannot find what I am after is, they probably don't exist? I will just have to modify the axle boxes to accept the brass sleeve of the Slaters/Peco wheels, no big deal just a bit extra work. Thanks anyway, Regards Mike Lee Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 It is Dapol wheels that are pinpoint. I haven't seen spares anywhere so perhaps ask around. People may be help better if you posted some pics. Perhaps drill the holes to receive Slaters/Peco bearings. Or if they are too large, fill with Evergreen rod or tube and then drill out. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hal Nail Posted January 9, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 9, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, brossard said: It is Dapol wheels that are pinpoint. I haven't seen spares anywhere so perhaps ask around. People may be help better if you posted some pics. Be careful here - you can buy Dapol wheels as spares but they have a domed end to the axles. I got caught out. Not sure if its inconsistency within Dapol's range or between pure Dapol and ex Lionheart. Edited January 9, 2020 by Hal Nail Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 Well, all mine to date have been Slaters or Peco. Given that Dapol wheels are out of the norm or even out of spec., I doubt I will be going after them. They do work nicely on Dapol wagons. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 For me the conversion of an ex Lima or Big Train mineral wagon is not cost effective... but if obtained cheap enough it can be 'kit bashing fun'. I have a box of part built conversions. The other day I created a storage box from a 'Really Useful' plastic storage box. I'm putting the parts required to finish them off in a bag with each model... Here is my ex Palbrick conversion... It is has a new door fabricated on a replacement section where the 'too short' side door was removed. The body height is increased by padding at the bottom, and on this one the ribbing above the end door was replaced with re-cycled sheet from takeaway drink cups. You can re-use the original headstock and buffers, but this one is having sprung buffers fitted. If I were making 'kiddies' runner wagons I would just remove the headstock, add some padding to make the body deeper, refit headstocks at the new height. As it is a pure compromise I would leave the door as it is. I have put Peco wheels straight in and they run fine. If you want easy, more to scale models by Dapol, Parkside or Peco, the choice is yours... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike lee Posted January 10, 2020 Author Share Posted January 10, 2020 Thanks everybody for there help, I am getting there slowly but surely (or not). Re info above about Dapol and Lionheart wheels, I have checked some of the wagons that I have. On the Dapol wagons, I have some are fitted with 'Slaters/Peco type wheels' and some are fitted with 'Hornby type pin point' wheels. I have only one Lionheart wagon, a 16t mineral and this is fitted with 'Hornby style pin point' wheels. I tried the Lionheart 'Hornby style pin point' wheels in the Lima 16T wagon and they are far to short. Consequently I will modifying the axle boxes and be putting Slaters/Peco wheels in! As I said above, no big deal just a bit extra work, it would have been nice to have been able to just drop some replacement wheels in. This mod is not high on my list and may not go ahead. It was part of the learning curve for me getting into 7mm modelling. FYI, assuming the Lionheart wagon body is the correct size? the Lima body is about 4mm longer, the same width and about 1.5mm less in height and a lot coarser in representation. Just as an aside, I have this week made four wagons of various manufacture. I must admit although I had all the correct instructions with each one I am not generally impressed compared to instructions with 4mm scale wagons I have built in the past: Instructions like: 'Put the floor in at the correct height' (when there are no recesses or marks to put it to and no diagram) and 'Build one end and side first, build the second end and side, join both sides and ends together to form a box before adding the floor' (only trouble is when you do that the floor won't fit in). Ah well, another learning curve, and we wont go down that route! Thanks everybody for spending their time to try and help. I think this one is done now. Regards Mike Lee Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hal Nail Posted January 10, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 10, 2020 (edited) Just to clarify, I bought some Dapol wheels which are available as spares, and they aren't pointed at all. No idea what wagon they are off as they don't fit any of the various Dapol or Lionheart ones that I have. Only mentioned it as a warning in case anyone else tries them! The Lionheart/Dapol minerals are excellent and as far as I know are correct, yes. I got one for about £20 as someone had made a pigs ear of weathering it and subsequently sold my Parkside and Peco and got a couple more of these. I think with 7mm traditionally being the preserve of kit and scratch builders, a level of prior knowledge has often been assumed so instructions can be scarce. I'm not defending that, just an observation! Edit: welcome to the fold incidentally! Edited January 10, 2020 by Hal Nail Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Poor instructions are not limited to 4mm kits. I would say kits from the likes of Parkside and Slaters are pretty good and I've built a fair few in 4mm. At the risk of harping on, 7mm is supposed to be the detail freaks scale so starting with Lima may not be the best course. I find it fun to get old (ish) kits and make them better by buying in parts. Like this: John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 I would rely on Lionheart/Dapol accuracy before Lima. Every model probably has areas that are wrong but as long as the basics are right I'm OK with fixing the things I don't like. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hal Nail Posted January 14, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 14, 2020 On 10/01/2020 at 19:30, brossard said: I would rely on Lionheart/Dapol accuracy before Lima. Every model probably has areas that are wrong but as long as the basics are right I'm OK with fixing the things I don't like. John One caveat that I'd forgotten about until some more arrived today, is that the fitted versions need some work underneath. As modelled the vacuum cylinder would rotate the central shaft in the wrong direction and the brakes wouldn't work. The original mid 50s vacuum braked wagons had clasp brakes anyway and are totally different to the model. Nevertheless the basic wagon in unfitted form is super. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 (edited) As an early teen I ‘detailed’ a Lima 16 tonner. I didn’t shorten it but I do remember spending ages opening out the W irons and trimming down the brake lever from the back. It was fun and looked good, if incorrect when I was done Edited January 14, 2020 by Talltim 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 (edited) I'm currently building a 16T fitted MCV mineral wagon. I haven't posted much yet but I did have a discussion here: I will post progress on the thread I linked to a couple of posts ago. John Edited January 14, 2020 by brossard 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike lee Posted January 22, 2020 Author Share Posted January 22, 2020 One of the next items on the agenda is 3 link couplings. For uncoupling, I have made an uncoupling hook using some very small neodyme magnets, 1mm x 4mm glued inside a length of plastic tube, with about 1mm protruding out the end, this actually works a treat, it is just strong enough to comfortably lift the 3 link coupling and pull away afterwards easily. The 3 link coupling comprises of the two top links being non magnetic, and only the bottom link being a magnetic link. That way the magnet on the end of the uncoupling hook will only pick up the last link and will not try and connect to any of the other links, if all the links were magnetic. Hope that makes sense. Using a magnet is a lot easier than trying to use a hook, honestly. All the links I have, or I have found are magnetic, i.e. the Peco/Parkside 3 link coupling packs PS50 etc and the Peco 3 link coupling packs and hooks RO4 are all magnetic. I just happened to have half a dozen from 'I know not where' to carry out my initial experiments. My question is: does anybody know, please, where I can get some correct scale, non magnetic, brass etc, links/chain from. I need them for all my wagons. Regards Mike Lee Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 (edited) I believe Parkside do brass links: I've seen a method that involves wrapping soft wire of suitable gauge around a form, like plastic strip, and then snipping them off to create links. My uncoupling/coupling tool is this: I have used it at a show and it works very well. That is steel wire, formed into a hook and sharpened. A tip about 3 link couplings - when you have them on, solder the gaps, especially on the top one. Even the smallest gap can find its way to the opening behind the hook and slip off. How do I know...? Eliminating daylight also looks better. I also chemically blacken my couplings. Use something like Carr's Metal Black or Gun Blue. John Edited January 22, 2020 by brossard 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 I use .88 copper flex and ,88 paper clip wire. A jigsaw blade is the former The links are cut with a heavy duty Stanley knife blade. Watch your fingers. Then straightened. Sir Douglas gave me the tip to use the paper clips. Assembled as 2 copper and one ferrous link. The joints are soldered. They go nicely on Peco or Stensons Models hooks. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike lee Posted January 23, 2020 Author Share Posted January 23, 2020 Thanks for the replies. John, On the Peco/Parkside 3 link couplings, the the picture shows brass coloured links but the links inside the packet are black coloured and are magnetic, item PS50, I have a packet in front of me. Maybe when they were Parkside they were brass but now they are Peco maybe they have changed them? Certainly Peco's 3 link coupling packs and hooks RO4 are all magnetic, they might be using them as they are a Peco brand and already stocked? I tried a hook, like you show, before I made the magnetic uncoupling hook. As I said 'Using a magnet is a lot easier than trying to use a hook, honestly', don't knock it till you have tried it. Ernie If I can't get any non magnetic, brass etc, links/chain, my option was to try and make some. If I can't get any, I will certainly try doing it your way, an excellent idea. I would still like to go down the easy option of obtaining non magnetic links. They are obviously available somewhere, I had some? Does anybody know, please, where I can get them from? Mike Lee Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 OK Mike, I just posted a pic I found on Google. Maybe Peco did change the material. I haven't bothered to check for magnetic links since I don't plan to use a magnet. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike lee Posted January 23, 2020 Author Share Posted January 23, 2020 John The picture on the pack of couplings I have, is the same as the one you showed that you got off the internet, but the contents are different? I might contact PECO if all else fails, but have not had much luck in the past in contacting them! Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 Yes, Peco are not as approachable as the old Parkside Dundas I think. Not knocking the magnetic uncoupler but as you have found it does come with difficulties. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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