R3819 Duchess Of Atholl

[cctransuk]

2 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

It may not even be possible for them to do so with any accuracy if you consider the post above - https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/150677-r3819-duchess-of-atholl/&do=findComment&comment=4081389 - my understanding is that may not be an isolated instance. In that context who would you apportion blame to?

 

 

 

4 x 112 = 448

 

448 - 500 = -52

 

If I were looking for a significant shortfall, I would be investigating simple mathematics rather than what is probably an isolated misunderstanding(?) between retailer and representative.

 

Could a rep., faced with a loyal but dissatisfied retailer asking for an additional allocation, agree to increase the allocation, but 'forget' to confirm that commitment in writing? Pure speculation, but whilst we're still in the realms of 'may' and 'may not' - due to the great Hornby silence - it seems reasonable to fill the information gap with such musings.

 

John Isherwood.

 

John Isherwood.

[Lexington]

3 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

Not at all (so do not presume to accuse me of that), we are very obviously discussing a smaller retailer. I have been assured that all smaller retailers will receive their initial order quantities.

So what is the cause?  We have one retailer that made a mistake and others that claim they didn't get their allocation.  Rather than belittle the victims, why not spell out what you believe to be the issue? 

[AY Mod]

1 minute ago, MonsalDan said:

to help Hornby save face is a bit off and I think an apology is due from yourself for the rude response.

 

Not at all, I spoke with them to get further information (Have you?) so I could get a steer on it and was freely provided with background information; anyway, you can't just call someone rude because they posit a different perspective. Yes, I have been barbed but surely you don't expect me to sit here and see barbed comments towards a party which isn't necessarily to blame.

 

Now, would you pay Robert's retailer up front when you could order elsewhere without risk?

[AY Mod]

1 minute ago, Lexington said:

1. Rather than belittle the victims,  - if there are victims what's the crime?

2. why not spell out what you believe to be the issue? - I don't know what the specifics are behind every instance so that cannot be suitably answered in the way you demand.

 

[MonsalDan]

5 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

Not at all, I spoke with them to get further information (Have you?) so I could get a steer on it and was freely provided with background information; anyway, you can't just call someone rude because they posit a different perspective. Yes, I have been barbed but surely you don't expect me to sit here and see barbed comments towards a party which isn't necessarily to blame.

 

Now, would you pay Robert's retailer up front when you could order elsewhere without risk?

Andy, I have no problem with you having a different perspective, it was your barbed comments (which you freely admit to) that I take issue with. 

I don't see why you have to rush to defend them with an infantile response when the best you can say is that they 'aren't necessarly to blame'.  Hornby are a large organisation with their own PR department who are quite capable of defending themselves if need be.

Edited August 13, 2020 by MonsalDan

[cctransuk]

9 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

... don't expect me to sit here and see barbed comments towards a party which isn't necessarily to blame.

 

 

So you don't sit here and see barbed comments - you make them yourself against an innocent party !!

 

Who-ho !! It's open season on barbed comments now - duly noted!!

 

The Naughty Step is dead !!

 

Hole - digging?

 

John Isherwood.

Edited August 13, 2020 by cctransuk

[AY Mod]

Just now, cctransuk said:

Who-ho !! It's open season on barbed comments now - duly noted!!

 

The Naughty Step is dead !!

 

Hole - digging?

 

The only response I can think of right now is "don't be such an ****".

 

I'll always save a step for you John, it has a plaque on it.

 

I just get pig sick of people slamming manufacturers/retailers when they haven't got the capacity to investigate for themselves or the capacity to understand wider issues.

 

Anyway; I'm done, think what you like because you will anyway and I've got some stuff that needs doing.

[Lexington]

5 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

The only response I can think of right now is "don't be such an ****".

 

I'll always save a step for you John, it has a plaque on it.

 

I just get pig sick of people slamming manufacturers/retailers when they haven't got the capacity to investigate for themselves or the capacity to understand wider issues.

 

Anyway; I'm done, think what you like because you will anyway and I've got some stuff that needs doing.

 

You've added nothing to the understanding, insulted people and made yourself look rather childish.  The main pieces of evidence we have are the statement from Rails and the evidence I posted - I'll post it again for you.  John gets the maths, as do I.

 

Based on that, it is not unreasonable to look at the manufacturer.

[cctransuk]

Just now, AY Mod said:

 

The only response I can think of right now is "don't be such an ****".

 

I'll always save a step for you John, it has a plaque on it.

 

I just get pig sick of people slamming manufacturers/retailers when they haven't got the capacity to investigate for themselves or the capacity to understand wider issues.

 

Anyway; I'm done, think what you like because you will anyway and I've got some stuff that needs doing.

 

Sorry, Andy, but I am far from being the only one who has the impression that a 'cosy' relationship exists between RMweb and the major manufacturers, that seriously compromises the editorial independence of this group.

 

You are far from being alone in this - it is endemic in the mainstream model press, for understandable commercial reasons.

 

Comment is only made when that perceived bias strays into apparent hostility to the customer. It is clear that you will not apologise in public, but we can only hope that you do so in the privacy of a PM.

 

John Isherwood.

[cctransuk]

24 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

Now, would you pay Robert's retailer up front when you could order elsewhere without risk?

 

Without risk? It would appear that anyone pre-ordering a Hornby product risks disappointment.

 

There would appear to be 52 unhappy customers out there who can verify this.

 

John Isherwood.

[Rockalaucher101]

8 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

It would appear that anyone pre-ordering a Hornby product risks disappointment.

Certainly my take away from all this.

I've preordered their brighton works terrier (the club one), who's to say if they'll make enough or if there will be another incident like this?

[adb968008]

1 hour ago, AY Mod said:

Now, would you pay Robert's retailer up front when you could order elsewhere without risk?

it depends, on price, the retailer, prior track record etc.

 

ive certainly never bought a new car without a big chunky deposit, or a house for that matter, so a Model train is a bit trivial.

 

if they were a nigerian prince (or a prince the musician for that matter), I wouldnt, but if its a bricks and mortar retailer with decades of history offering a sizeable discount, then I would, and I have... I paid in full for class 71’s and 74’s via Kernow for instance, the former took a year+ and arrived, the latter was greatly refunded, I’d trust Kernow any day of the week if they proposed something such as.

 

Only once in the early 1990’s did I have a shop not honour an agreement and send me in circles. I just went in in person, and it came out resolved in a few minutes, admittedly he wasn't prepared my for unconventional arrival.

 

I dont know how prevalent it is today, but when I was younger, many shops offered savings club, to put money down towards new releases over a year, so they could collect a model on release, often the last installment was a gift from the shop...i loved that as a kid.

 

maybe Robert should name his retailer, that should make things less opaque and shut this down as fact or fiction, theres a lot of decent retailers out there and i’d hate to see them all tarred, similarly if its happened and its true then theres no need for smoke and mirrors.

 

i will repeat what I said earlier, there are some retailers, where if you know how, you can pre-order an item they have marked as sold out. Thats the retailers software limitations, and Ive pointed this loophole out, though to-date they haven't acted upon it, and could lead to oversold situations (and no I wont share outside those affected how to do it so as not to encourage it)... but thats quite definitely not Hornbys fault, but it was shared on a facebook group quite sometime back, so many know how.

 

 

 

Edited August 13, 2020 by adb968008

[Steamport Southport]

2 minutes ago, Rockalaucher101 said:

Certainly my take away from all this.

I've preordered their brighton works terrier (the club one), who's to say if they'll make enough or if there will be another incident like this?

 

Because that's a Hornby only product and they can make as many as they want as long as they are only being sold to members. Don't panic.

 

I do think people are putting too much emphasis on the box numbers. That seems to be one shipment. Don't they normally ship a box by air as well?

 

 

 

Jason

[AY Mod]

20 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

I am far from being the only one who has the impression that a 'cosy' relationship exists between RMweb and the major manufacturers, that seriously compromises the editorial independence of this group.

 

It's important to have relationships so the we can have communications when necessary, I can assure you they're not all 'cosy', even yesterday's conversation with Hornby was to discuss a problem issue but because we can have communications hopefully it means it can be sorted. What is that you want in this 'editorial independence'? Freedom to fire poorly aimed shots whenever you feel like it? It's fair to remind you of the cost of running the site to which you will respond that your value is your contributions.

 

Quote

It is clear that you will not apologise in public, 

 

No, I won't be apologising for stating that I feel the customer was daft to pay in full up-front.

 

[AY Mod]

1 minute ago, adb968008 said:

I’d trust Kernow any day of the week if they proposed something such as.

 

Those were the terms for those projects, clearly advised at the time of the launch so there's no argument there but DoA was available from multiple sources that did not require payment in full up-front.

[cctransuk]

5 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

What is that you want in this 'editorial independence'? Freedom to fire poorly aimed shots whenever you feel like it? It's fair to remind you of the cost of running the site to which you will respond that your value is your contributions.

 

A little less rushing to the defence of the manufacturer. By all means point out that the cause is, as yet, unknown - but some comment to the effect that the lack of information being placed in the public domain is inevitably fueling alarm and discontent would be viewed as more balanced.

 

But ..... this furore was generated by your misguided verbalisation of your reaction to what you perceived as an ill-advised course of action by a customer. To misquote - "You may think that, but you shouldn't possibly comment"; you have made this point to me on a number of occasions, so it stood out when you did it yourself.

 

No, I don't pay for Premium Membership of what I regard as an open, commercially run, forum. That forum was purchased (from you) for purely commercial motives, and I do not feel that I am obligated in any way to subsidise the current owners' (profit-making) operations.

 

John Isherwood.

[Widnes Model Centre]

53 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

 

4 x 112 = 448

 

448 - 500 = -52

 

If I were looking for a significant shortfall, I would be investigating simple mathematics rather than what is probably an isolated misunderstanding(?) between retailer and representative.

 

Could a rep., faced with a loyal but dissatisfied retailer asking for an additional allocation, agree to increase the allocation, but 'forget' to confirm that commitment in writing? Pure speculation, but whilst we're still in the realms of 'may' and 'may not' - due to the great Hornby silence - it seems reasonable to fill the information gap with such musings.

 

John Isherwood.

 

John Isherwood.

 

Hi John, just to clarify: l am a loyal and satisfied customer of Hornby if it’s my post you are referring to. 

 

I requested one more model when saw my allocation AFTER, l had submitted my order. At no stage did l say that the Rep had forgotten to confirm my order in writing. Knowing our rep very well he would have tried his best, as he has done in the past to satisfy his customer, us. In my post, l mention he amended our initial order , this was down, not up. Some items “allocated” to us, we chose not to order.

 

It was for me to check that l had received written confirmation, we are one of many retailers who he deals with, many of whom were probably making the same requests. Notwithstanding we would normally have been in Margate on Launch Day. Anyone at the event would have been made aware of their allocation of all the Centenary Products. 

 

As the nearest model shop shop to the site of the Rainhill Trials, we would have loved to have received and no doubt possibly sold all of the Limited Editions. I had former colleagues reminding me that we had helped Rocket to make the anniversary event and they wanted one to commemorate their involvement. Sorry, all gone . That didn’t go down well.

 

As l stated in my apology, my fault, not our Hornby reps. No one at Hornby. Simple mistake. 

 

Might be a good time to mention Covid 19. Things have not been easy for anyone in Retail. Had the Hornby rep not been forced to stay at home due to government restrictions and able carry on with his regular shop visits my mistake would have been spotted earlier.  In normal times he would have gone through what we had due in or on order. 

As ours is a general model shop and not just model railways, stock has been extremely difficult to find. As an example we have ordered dozens of radio controlled cars, our last delivery was one car. Batteries for those types of cars? You have got a better chance getting two Duchess of Atholl’s.

 

 

[MikeParkin65]

1 hour ago, cctransuk said:

 

 

 

But ..... this furore was generated by your misguided verbalisation of your reaction to what you perceived as an ill-advised course of action by a customer.

 

John Isherwood.

 I agree Andy's comment seemed a tad brusque. But that's Andy, I've had the odd comment back myself I'd call brusque but we are all adults on this forum and we take the rough and tumble as part of the interaction. I do anyway.  

 

No way was 'this furore' caused by Andy though - all of this started when Rails customers were left disappointed by an email from Rails. Subsequently Hornby has been accused of all sorts of under handedness for which there is absolutely no evidence by members of the forum. Its not even clear if some of the pitch folk wielders are actually in the disappointed cohort!

 

 

Edited August 13, 2020 by MikeParkin65

[Colin_McLeod]

This has been a very entertaining off topic spat.

 

Hardly any posts about the loco itself.

 

 

Wanted to say this before the thread gets locked lol

[MikeParkin65]

8 minutes ago, Colin_McLeod said:

This has been a very entertaining off topic spat.

 

Hardly any posts about the loco itself.

 

 

Wanted to say this before the thread gets locked lol

Wholeheartedly agree - lets see more pictures and video of it being able to haul 20 kit built coaches!!

[22C]

6 hours ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

Has any owner yet weighed the loco alone and prepared to report?

Supplementary question, where is the balance point located relative to the coupled wheelbase?

Loco + tender = 665g!

 

 

[woodenhead]

2 minutes ago, 22C said:

Loco + tender = 665g!

 

 

 

Very nice, but please get that socket screwed in fully, it is giving my OCDs a worrying buzz

[22C]

Just now, woodenhead said:

Very nice, but please get that socket screwed in fully, it is giving my OCDs a worrying buzz

Sorry, half way through re-tiling my kitchen!!

[MikeParkin65]

1 minute ago, woodenhead said:

Very nice, but please get that socket screwed in fully, it is giving my OCDs a worrying buzz

No time for that - new loco to play with!!

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

8 minutes ago, 22C said:

Loco + tender = 665g!

I'll guess at the loco circa 550g then. Which is nice.