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Useful Chassis for British H0 Loco and Railcar Projects


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I am hopeful, most of the information pertinent to chassis is in the first post. I give it an update when something new turns up. So really if this topic drifts off I expect it is a good thing. £10 a year for the 5.5 mm Association looks like a bargain.

 

- Richard.

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9 hours ago, 47137 said:

 

Surely we are allowed to go off-topic when we are showing models we have made? I think this really looks the part. You have sent me off to the Internet reading up on 5.5 mm scale, I imagined it was all history but it looks like a really nice size to work in. And you can run the trains on 16.5 mm gauge track, so as an experiment in model-making you don't need to build a layout. Have you got a link to your 5.5 mm project?

 

- Richard.

I'm afraid the loco and it's train are the total extent of my 5.5mm modelling so far! It's actually standing on my Sn3 1/2 layout (which will have to be dismantled soon to make way for the fiddle yard of my German 0 gauge layout 'Brückenheim')

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To only go half off-topic, I think the idea of a dual British H0 / 5.5n3 layout will be niche enough to appeal to most of us here!

 

Edited by Ian Simpson
Still managed to get a typo in a one sentence post!
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12 hours ago, Ian Simpson said:

To only go half off-topic, I think the idea of a dual British H0 / 5.5n3 layout will be niche enough to appeal to most of us here!

 

 

Well - it has occurred to me, I could connect a 5.5n3 layout into the middle of my present H0 scheme, and use the narrow gauge part as a fiddle yard for the standard gauge and vice versa. I think it would do me good to try a project in a larger scale. I really did struggle with those railings on the chemical plant and maybe moving up a few sizes would let me show to myself what I can ever hope to achieve in terms of detail, and get a sense of proportion on what I can tackle in H0.

 

- Richard.

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If you want some fancy NG locos chassis, the various forms of the Mantua 2-6-6-2 can be found on EBay for reasonable prices. In UK HO it could be used as a free-lanced LMS Beyer Garrett.

 

I'm quite consumed making different sections of credible looking US HO and UK HO scale track on the same layout, without worrying about adding another scale topic.

 

Andy

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11 minutes ago, Andy Reichert said:

If you want some fancy NG locos chassis, the various forms of the Mantua 2-6-6-2 can be found on EBay for reasonable prices. In UK HO it could be used as a free-lanced LMS Beyer Garrett.

 

I'm quite consumed making different sections of credible looking US HO and UK HO scale track on the same layout, without worrying about adding another scale topic.

 

Andy

 

I can keep an eye out but right now there is only one example on the UK eBay site, at an eye-watering £208 including postage.

 

Please, what are the dimensions - wheelbase and wheel diameters?

 

- Richard.

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On 10/07/2020 at 08:51, Moxy said:

Further thread drift - you may already have seen this, but the 5.5mm Association is here.

 

Well worth joining.

 

Moxy

 

I've signed up. They have already sent me their Association Handbook and two copies of their quarterly journal. This looks good to me - something to put on the back burner, to design and re-design while I continue my H0 project. Which is now into its fifth year, and ought to be looking much more finished-off than it is.

 

- Richard.

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37 minutes ago, 47137 said:

 

I can keep an eye out but right now there is only one example on the UK eBay site, at an eye-watering £208 including postage.

 

Please, what are the dimensions - wheelbase and wheel diameters?

 

- Richard.

 

Wheel dia 0.6"

6 coupled wheelbase 1.385"

centre to centre of the two 6 coupleds 2.62"

 

Several on the US Ebay site.  Not sure what a UK Garrett goes for at the moment.  (Heljan) ?

 

Andy

 

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3 hours ago, Andy Reichert said:

If you want some fancy NG locos chassis, the various forms of the Mantua 2-6-6-2 can be found on EBay for reasonable prices. In UK HO it could be used as a free-lanced LMS Beyer Garrett.

 

...

 

2 hours ago, Andy Reichert said:

 

Wheel dia 0.6"

6 coupled wheelbase 1.385"

centre to centre of the two 6 coupleds 2.62"

 

Several on the US Ebay site.  Not sure what a UK Garrett goes for at the moment.  (Heljan) ?

 

I have added the Jouef 'Junior' loco and the Mantua Mallet to the table in the first post. I am relying on your knowledge of the Mantua, I have no idea whether the mechanism will fit inside the British outline.

 

The LMS Garrett had 5 ft 3 in (1.6 m) driving wheels so the wheels on the Mantua model are well underscale, but as you say there could be a freelance British project in there.

 

I expect we can go off topic again now for another couple of months :-)

 

- Richard.

Edited by 47137
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I think the Mantua  loco chassis would be too big for British HO. I know of it being used in O 16.5, and would probably be useful for 5.5mm/ft as well,talking of which there is a lot of new interest in modelling 3ft gauge in 5.5mm/ft, helped by the large amount of items availablefor 28mm wargaming which is virtally same scale. I have a long term project to stretch it to modelling metre gauge as well, and have resized  quite a few of my designs into 5.5mm/ft.

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18 hours ago, rue_d_etropal said:

I think the Mantua  loco chassis would be too big for British HO. I know of it being used in O 16.5, and would probably be useful for 5.5mm/ft as well,talking of which there is a lot of new interest in modelling 3ft gauge in 5.5mm/ft, helped by the large amount of items availablefor 28mm wargaming which is virtally same scale. I have a long term project to stretch it to modelling metre gauge as well, and have resized  quite a few of my designs into 5.5mm/ft.

 

I agree. There is a photo of a stripped-down Mantua Mallet here, and we can see the chassis is far too wide for British outline in 1:87 scale:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HO-Mantua-2-6-6-2-Mallet-Articulated-Logger-Spares-Or-Repair-/164246143608?nma=true&si=YM%2BBgdIcTHtRWpNVOA13ey7nxJs%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

 

I have removed the Mantua from the list of chassis in the first post.

 

- Richard.

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886058455_mantua2-6-6-2under1.jpg.f24950e387db4b9c3a9cbde37194a2df.jpg

 

FWIW, I scanned the Mantua underside next to an 00 Bachman MK1 suburban. It all fits within the UK 00 loading gauge.

 

The only difference from any other HO chassis is that the width of the cylinders and excessive vale gear. Remove those and you have two cute and short 6 coupled inside cylinder chassis of normal HO width.

 

Andy.

 

 

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33 minutes ago, Andy Reichert said:

886058455_mantua2-6-6-2under1.jpg.f24950e387db4b9c3a9cbde37194a2df.jpg

 

FWIW, I scanned the Mantua underside next to an 00 Bachman MK1 suburban. It all fits within the UK 00 loading gauge.

 

The only difference from any other HO chassis is that the width of the cylinders and excessive vale gear. Remove those and you have two cute and short 6 coupled inside cylinder chassis of normal HO width.

 

Andy.

 

 

 

Dare I ask, with the valve gear removed, does the motor fit inside the British outline, in 1:87 scale? 

 

- Richard.

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1 hour ago, 47137 said:

 

Dare I ask, with the valve gear removed, does the motor fit inside the British outline, in 1:87 scale? 

 

- Richard.

 

British outline what?  I don't have any UK steam and/or diesel drawings to judge it against. But looking at an 08 shunter picture on the web, that looks like a good wheelbase appearance with plenty of height.

 

Since you'd need to add a second motor to get then option two separate chassis, It would be just as easy to replace the original motor for a smaller one.

 

Any 3D print made to fit the (or any other) chassis could allow for at least the smaller motor case.

 

I'm a bit busy to research more this month. I only kept the loco as a future example for a complex P:87 conversion. I'm not terribly interested in converting mine to a 3.5 mm UK diesel.

 

Andy

 

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, Andy Reichert said:

 

British outline what?

 

In the table in the first post we have suggested applications for many chassis. It is up to you, as a contributor, to suggest the application(s).

 

The Rapido tram shows we can have outside cylinders around 29 mm wide with 16.5 mm gauge. It seems a bit daft to me to recommend the Mantua chassis when it needs such wholesale modification and there are so many other six-coupled chassis out there.

 

Then again, if someone uses the Mantua chassis in a British H0 model I'll take my hat off to them and put it back into the table.

 

- Richard.

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I think there are two separate issues here:

(a) whether a chassis / motor combination will fit the UK loading gauge, and

(b) whether it will fit any of the actual designs that the companies were putting out. 

The first question is fairly easy to answer, but the second one is really difficult because there was such wide variation.

I do like Richard's table, as it gives both the measurements and any suggested applications that we've been able to come up with. It allows us to do our own research on prototypes while still tapping into other people's knowledge and ideas.

And I think Andy's suggestion that the Mallet chassis might work if the cylinders and related rods are removed is an interesting one, if the Mallet provides a different wheelbase to other available chassis.

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I have a copy of Mike Sharman's book "Wheel specifications for the modeller" and after scrutinising it for a few hours I didn't find one prototype for a RTR chassis to add to the table. So at the moment, the table is really a selection of suggestions.

 

I dislike defining things by saying what they are not, but of course the table does not include RTR models for British H0. I have always imagined, the beginning H0 modeller will familiarise themselves with what is available, for example using the details at the web site of the British 1:87 scale society. So anyone wanting to build a class 08 will most likely start with the Roco class 11, and someone wanting a USA tank with choose one of the various S100s.

 

At the moment, the Mantua Mallet seems to offer much the same wheelbase as a Bachmann 03, with 15 mm instead of 14 mm wheels, and an undetermined cross-wise profile. The wheels of the class 03 are distinctive and some modellers will want to re-wheel the chassis, and the opportunity is there to fit larger wheels. I think the Mantua is something an ingenious modeller might put to good use if they had a damaged sample to hand, but is too sophisticated to seek a good one to strip down.

 

- Richard.

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I think, the table in the first post would be better if it included usable TT chassis such as items from the Tri-ang range, and possibly more modern items e.g. Tillig. If others agree and can post the dimensions of useful chassis, I'll add the details to the table.

 

I suppose, it would be good to know whether a proposed application can keep the original TT wheels (on longer axles) or needs new wheels as well as axles. I can include the details in the table.

 

- Richard.

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Has anyone else noticed the forthcoming Lima C38 from New South Wales?

 

https://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/lima-expert-h0-1-87-nsw-steam-locomotive-c38-class-4-6-2-pacific-express-passenger-locomotive-3806-black-green-livery-period-iii.html

 

I do not know about such things but the chassis looks a bit Bulleid.

 

- Richard.

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there are 2 main problems when trying to find suitable chassis for British steam locos.

Firstly for outside cylinder ones, the width of continental HO models across cylinders is too much, but in some cases could be modified(has anyone done this with the low cost Electrotren/Hornby loco?), and second problem is position and size of motor. Oddly the old way of having a separate weight which can be removed can makelife easier, but the current trend for r2r manufacturers to have weight as part of chassis makes conversion difficult.

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