Useful Chassis for British H0 Loco and Railcar Projects

[Andy Reichert]

On 23/01/2020 at 23:05, 47137 said:

 

Can these be had with more usual wheel profiles like RP-25?

 

Also, can you post a link to your web site? Maybe you should have a section on RMweb under "smaller suppliers".

 

- Richard.

 

I don't duplicate the already plentiful supply of code 110 wheels, but I can eventually supply all the upcoming loco and bogies chassis with standard 2mm axles.

 

www.proto87.com

 

Andy

[rue_d_etropal]

9 hours ago, 47137 said:

 

I will add the Bachmann GE44 chassis if it has a straight application for a prototype used in Britain other than a GE44, or if you can supply the basic dimensions, or both. But saying it is well-liked by narrow gauge modellers seems completely off-topic. We need focus if this table is going to be of value. I cannot even work out whether you are describing a 9 or 16.5mm gauge locomotive.

 

The Bachmann Wickham trolley has the motor in the trailer, and tiny wheels. Surely, no locomotive would be built from such a tiny basis?

 

- Richard.

The GE44 is the HO version. The bogie has same size wheels as the Ruston, and wheelbase is slightly longer at 24mm. I think it is actualy a better chassis, as it as a very large worm drive which has enough weight to keep motor movng at slow speeds. It was a poplar chassis for members of the gNatterbox, the sister forum of the sadly defunct MTI forum. On the whole I have found narrow gauge modellers are more willing to look around and adapt to what is available, hence the growth over the years.

I suppose my main interest in railcars and multiple units, including steam railmotors, so I tend to look for motor bogies. Always something new coming out.

The Wickham trolley has 6mm diamere wheels with wheelbase of 15mm. There are quite a few standard gauge locos adapted from narrow gauge ones. I thinkcarriage shunter at one BR works was such a loco, not forgetting the standard gauge converted Tin Turtles. 

The SanFransisco tram/trolley car has motor bogie with wheelbase 22mm.

The biggest problem I have found is finding chassis with small enough motors. Getting easier as more room for DCC etc, but motors are still sometimes too big or too wide.

[47137]

13 hours ago, rue_d_etropal said:

The GE44 is the HO version. The bogie has same size wheels as the Ruston, and wheelbase is slightly longer at 24mm. I think it is actualy a better chassis, as it as a very large worm drive which has enough weight to keep motor movng at slow speeds. It was a poplar chassis for members of the gNatterbox, the sister forum of the sadly defunct MTI forum. On the whole I have found narrow gauge modellers are more willing to look around and adapt to what is available, hence the growth over the years.

I suppose my main interest in railcars and multiple units, including steam railmotors, so I tend to look for motor bogies. Always something new coming out.

The Wickham trolley has 6mm diamere wheels with wheelbase of 15mm. There are quite a few standard gauge locos adapted from narrow gauge ones. I thinkcarriage shunter at one BR works was such a loco, not forgetting the standard gauge converted Tin Turtles. 

The SanFransisco tram/trolley car has motor bogie with wheelbase 22mm.

The biggest problem I have found is finding chassis with small enough motors. Getting easier as more room for DCC etc, but motors are still sometimes too big or too wide.

 

I've never owned any of the models you describe. I will add them to the list if I have concise and correct information, and they have a genuine application to British prototypes in 1:87 scale.

 

Looking online, the chassis of the GE44 seems to be a design with a central motor, so there is no "motor bogie" here. The bogie centres are important information for anyone wanting to use the chassis.

 

The Wickham trolley is unpowered, so is the 15mm here the wheelbase of its trailer?

 

I'm guessing the "San Fransisco tram/trolley car" is the Bachmann model they call a cable car (two different bogie wheelbases), what is the wheel diameter here?

 

There is no merit in a mud-slinging exercise making a list of every small-sized 16.5 mm gauge power unit. There has got to be some kind of correlation with prototypes, or perhaps with might-have-been prototypes. Also, if wheels must be changed to get something resembling a prototype, some modellers will be better off beginning with a kit and such chassis will become as important as RTR ones.

 

It does sounds as though it would be worthwhile to extend the scope of the list to embrace all motive power e.g. multiple unit trains or rail motors; it is supposed to be for locos at the moment.

 

- Richard.

[rue_d_etropal]

The current GE44 is centre motored, it is the original one that has two motors. They can still be found, often cheap as theyare not DCC ready so don't appeal to some.

The Wickham trolley , both wheelbases the same.

The SanFransisco tram, the motor bogie can be used on its own. The other bogie might be of use(I certainly can find some uses for light railway coaches) but it is a different length.

Another loco the motor part of the Wickham should fit is the Simplex 50HP 8tonshunting loco, the wheelbase is 15-16mm . Adding a wagon with pickups wouls allow it to work. That means I might have to buy another Wickham trolley to fit my model!

[Andy Reichert]

 

Here is a comparison of my upcoming Superglide tm  truck project in both 12 mm gauge and 16.5 mm gauge form with a standard US HO freight truck.. The RH truck is a powered version fitted with a power drive for a body centre mounted motor. This particular one has a max traction wheel arrangement.  Since the design is modular, the wheel base and the wheel size can be anything choose. Only the side frames change. The suspension is equalized, so the powered axle always has 50% of the supported weight for good traction. For a diesel or electric locomotive, you'd mount two of the powered versions.

 

Andy

[47137]

18 hours ago, Andy Reichert said:

 

Here is a comparison of my upcoming Superglide tm  truck project in both 12 mm gauge and 16.5 mm gauge form with a standard US HO freight truck.. The RH truck is a powered version fitted with a power drive for a body centre mounted motor. This particular one has a max traction wheel arrangement.  Since the design is modular, the wheel base and the wheel size can be anything choose. Only the side frames change. The suspension is equalized, so the powered axle always has 50% of the supported weight for good traction. For a diesel or electric locomotive, you'd mount two of the powered versions.

 

I suggest you start a topic to describe and promote your company's products.

 

If they are found useful for British H0 applications, I expect someone will pick up on them here; but it looks to me as though their main market will be with P87 modellers, and possibly (with different wheels) with 00 modellers.

 

- Richard.

[Andy Reichert]

 

1 hour ago, 47137 said:

 

I suggest you start a topic to describe and promote your company's products.

 

If they are found useful for British H0 applications, I expect someone will pick up on them here; but it looks to me as though their main market will be with P87 modellers, and possibly (with different wheels) with 00 modellers.

 

- Richard.

 

What feature(s) or lack thereof makes you think that?

 

Andy

[47137]

16 hours ago, 47137 said:

 

I suggest you start a topic to describe and promote your company's products.

 

If they are found useful for British H0 applications, I expect someone will pick up on them here; but it looks to me as though their main market will be with P87 modellers, and possibly (with different wheels) with 00 modellers.

 

- Richard.

 

15 hours ago, Andy Reichert said:

 

 

What feature(s) or lack thereof makes you think that?

 

Andy

 

Andy,

 

Nothing to do with your products.

 

Rather, it is difficult to underestimate the number of people actively involved in British H0. The market here for your products is small, and may not exist at all. If you put your posts elsewhere, you can choose a location where you will reach a larger audience, and avoid cross-posting.

 

- Richard.

[47137]

I think it is worthwhile to include mechanisms for railcars as well as locos in the table, so I have edited the title of the topic to suit.

 

- Richard.

Edited February 2, 2020 by 47137
Simplicity

[rue_d_etropal]

Neded a break from designing coaches and locos so knocked up a simple loco chasis with 26 +28mm wheelbase. I would recommend using one of those gearbox/motor combinations which DJH use on their locos. Was not sure of exact distance motor sits above axle,but I can either modify design or packing could be added. It takes 1/8in axles with 3.7mm bearings(eg Romfords).

Edited February 1, 2020 by rue_d_etropal

[tomparryharry]

8 minutes ago, rue_d_etropal said:

Neded a break from designing coaches and locos so knocked up a simple loco chasis with 26 +28mm wheelbase. I would recommend using one of those gearbox/motor combinations which DJH use on their locos. Was not sure of exact distance motor sits above axle,but I can either modify design or packing could be added. It takes 1/8in axles with 3.7mm bearings(eg Romfords).

 

Hello Simon, would a 6 wheel chassis, with 28 + 28mm wheelbase be feasible? Designed to accept everything you have described, to accept Romford 18mm wheels?

 

Cheers,

Ian.

[rue_d_etropal]

any wheelbase is possible, just need to modify design. My initial concern was how to fit motor and gears,then I saw how the gearbox/motorcombination looked. Iwas also worried about wearing of the nylon, bit set holes to fit 3.7mm bearings. The gearbox is 9.3mm wide so should fit in OK, as the distance between sides is 10mm. The top of the chassis is 5mm above axle centres. Estimated this was about right for HO.

[Andy Reichert]

9 hours ago, rue_d_etropal said:

any wheelbase is possible, just need to modify design. My initial concern was how to fit motor and gears,then I saw how the gearbox/motorcombination looked. Iwas also worried about wearing of the nylon, bit set holes to fit 3.7mm bearings. The gearbox is 9.3mm wide so should fit in OK, as the distance between sides is 10mm. The top of the chassis is 5mm above axle centres. Estimated this was about right for HO.

 

Any idea of how expensive a plain long box like that would be on Shapeways? An even simpler alternative would a simple metal extrusion "U" or square section from a hardware store with 3 holes drilled with a pillar drill. 

[Andy Reichert]

15 hours ago, 47137 said:

 

 

Andy,

 

Nothing to do with your products.

 

Rather, it is difficult to underestimate the number of people actively involved in British H0. The market here for your products is small, and may not exist at all. If you put your posts elsewhere, you can choose a location where you will reach a larger audience, and avoid cross-posting.

 

- Richard.

 

Thanks,

 

I thought you'd found a technical issue. Phew

 

I'm fundamentally a engineering designer of mechanically interesting HO things like street cars and realistic street track, but any thing that needs superb running on 16.5 mm track interests me. All my UK models are intended to run on 16.5 mm gauge, but with scale wheels.  That way I can run HO and 4mm on the same layout, but for scenic acceptability, at different times.

 

Andy

[47137]

I've updated the table in the first post to add details of suggestions I've seen here in the last few days, and a couple of other models in my collection.

 

I've removed the Heljan class 05 from the table, I cannot think of a suitable 1:87 prototype.

 

- Richard.

[crackedmember]

Rather than use a pillar drill, consider using this

http://www.2mm.org.uk/articles/fonly/fonlypt1.htm

 

The chassis building jig described will also ensure that all axle holes are in a straight line

 

Clive

[CloggyDog]

Don't forget the good old Tenshodo 'SPUD' motor bogies, available in arrange of wheelbases from 24.5mm to 35mm

I think the available range is something like 24mm, 26mm, 28.7mm, 31mm, 35mm.

And a variety of wheel sizes (disc and spoked) including 10.5mm and 12mm. From previous experiments in EM-ing one, I know the SPUD uses a 2mm axle, so it would not be that difficult to swap out the axles/wheelsets - spare worms and axle gears can also be had.

 

It might also be worth looking at Japanese tram mechanisms - I've used a 17.5mm wheelbase self-contained power bogie under a small H0 loco (albeit not a UK prototype) and there's even an axle-hung motor/wheelset combo if you fancy trying that!

 

https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/list/3052/0/1

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 3, 2020 by CloggyDog

[Andy Reichert]

I have a Tyco Pacific stored away somewhere. I'll publish its details when I find it.

 

Andy

[47137]

On 03/02/2020 at 14:27, CloggyDog said:

Don't forget the good old Tenshodo 'SPUD' motor bogies, available in arrange of wheelbases from 24.5mm to 35mm

I think the available range is something like 24mm, 26mm, 28.7mm, 31mm, 35mm.

And a variety of wheel sizes (disc and spoked) including 10.5mm and 12mm. From previous experiments in EM-ing one, I know the SPUD uses a 2mm axle, so it would not be that difficult to swap out the axles/wheelsets - spare worms and axle gears can also be had.

 

It might also be worth looking at Japanese tram mechanisms - I've used a 17.5mm wheelbase self-contained power bogie under a small H0 loco (albeit not a UK prototype) and there's even an axle-hung motor/wheelset combo if you fancy trying that!

 

https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/list/3052/0/1

 

The Tenshodos seem to be mixed bag. I had two for a Lima class 33 conversion, both ran well on test but I settled on a Proto2000 chassis for the model and sold them on. I had another Tenshodo for a Branchlines kit and this example barely ran at all. I would buy another Tenshodo but I would want to see it run nicely before beginning the rest of the project. I'll give them a line in the table at the next update.

 

I don't know anything about Japanese H0 mechanisms beyond Tomytech and Kato (all for N / 9mm gauge) but again, a single line in the table won't do any harm. I expect they are beautifully made.

 

- Richard.

 

 

[rue_d_etropal]

I have found the Tenshodo bogies iffsy . Work OK at first, but I have had problems with wear on gears. Metro Models used to sell the ENDO unit, far better, but no longer seems to be available. There are some fancy bogies available from a well known Japanese shop, not cheap and you have to assemble them - looks like only one type as well.  Although not stricklynormal  r2r, I think the ones Loconstuff do are best option. He can do virtually any wheelbase , most wheel sizes, as well as a tender dive unit with unpowered centre axle.

Does anyone do a small gearbox to fit standard 1/8thaxles. The ones on DJH are a bit big for some locos, and I am sure , that one connected via a universal drive would work and mean motor could be easily fitted.

Have had another look at new J72 chassis info. The magazine reviews show insides. Not happy they have put motor at front, as that has meant part of boiler is attached to seat the motor - jusy so they can have fire box glow!!!! Might make it tricky to fit in some locos.

[rue_d_etropal]

Just received from Japan, a nice small bogie chassis, HO . Probably designed for a tram, but might suit some small railcars or locos. It scales out at about 40ft long. Bogies have wheelbase of about 17mm, wheels diameter is 9mm. Bogie tobogie centres is 80mm.

It is described as  Trolley Power Trucks. Model number TW-MTR03. I bought a couple a few years ago, and found they ran very well, and went round my sharp railway curves(250mm radius). Unfortunately they just disap[eared off the market, but I think a batch has just been released. They sell very quickly. Only had 2 problems with them. Firstly one I had shorted out , but thar was fixed with extra insulation under weights. Second problem, my fault, was when I droped the railcar fitted, and one of the universal joinyts broke. After a bit of thinking, I designed a 3D printed replacement which actually worked, by=ut whines a bit(I think it must resonate in the plastic which is one of the better types more suited to mechanical movement).

Some might find the wheel profile a bit coarse, but I prefer somthing that actually works, and my track can sometimes be a bit uneven, but more typical of narrow gauge lines I used the units for. Not sure what I am going to use this one for yet.

More thought about the J72 chassis,I wonder if anyone has hacked the old Bachmann one apart to get rid of some of the metal. Main problem I have found is the length of the back end, which is too long for most small 0-6-0 tank locos, but might fit an 0-6-2.

I managed to fit one in my LBSCR E1 tank loco. Position of side tanks also can be a problem so might need to remove some of the  metal on sides.  It would probably mean having to redrill holes for screws. Alternative  might be to design a 3D printed chassis based on the Bachmann one, with extra pickups on the wheels. There are now likely to be some cheap J72 chassis on the market, and converting one would be a lot cheaper than trying to fit one of the new ones. Might try to find a nice cheap chassis to play arond with.

[47137]

The TW-MTR03 gets a mention at Dauphin Railway Products and 1999.co.jp:

http://www.mmjp.or.jp/tramway/goods/pg363.html

https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10583258

 

I expect it is very nicely made. Interesting to see orders are limited to two per household.

 

If I am going to include trams in the list, and this seems only sensible, I ought to include the products from Halling too. They do a motor bogie with an adjustable wheelbase and a range of articulated chassis.

 

- Richard.

[rue_d_etropal]

it might be intended for trams but would fit any 40ft coach/railcar, eg Liverpool Overhead Railway.

[rue_d_etropal]

Anothee useful 4 wheel chassis is the Bachmann HO Hi Rail bus, the long one. Whel base is abou 68mm, which corresponds toabout 19ft, so would suit some of the BR 4 wheel railbuses, maybe others pre BR. Don;t be tempted by the older version of this chassis as is is not very good. 

Not always easy to get hold of, and price has shot up, but here iis one on ebay . https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bachmann-HO-GAUGE-46215-WHITE-BUS-WITH-HIGH-RAILERS-BOXED-GC6-3/254321467078?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160727114228%26meid%3D438310fe8b2f42569a1a2057bee325ab%26pid%3D100290%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D174156537819%26itm%3D254321467078%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2060778&_trksid=p2060778.c100290.m3507

 

[friscopete]

No idea if this would help but you can take an RTV cast of a larger pattern and shrink  it by adding thinners to the RTV mix which then shrinks as it dries .I gather the  model car guys in the USA use it to shrink 1/64  auto body castings down .I havnt tried but it might be worth looking into and as long as you dont sell them you can make as many as you want .