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Class 303 EMU query


ThaneofFife
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I disagree !!! I travelled on the 303s from 1984 until their withdrawal and found them comfortable and pleasant, even after refurbishment. When they were replaced by Class 314 on my local line, the only advantage of the newer sets was the air suspension, in every other respect I preferred the 303. I should perhaps mention that line speed on my route is 50mph, so that may have coloured my opinion ! 

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While we are discussing Class 303, does anyone have any more information on the destruction of 303002 in, I believe 1980 ? Many years ago a Control colleague told me that it had been left stabled at Neilston due to a 'wires down' incident between there and Patterton. The wiring train was despatched to make repairs, and while working on its roof the OLE gang heard the 'clickety-click' over the rail joints of a train coming towards them and jumped clear; The 303 had run away and collided with the wiring train. There was for many years a damaged OLE mast at the lineside which I thought was a relic of that incident, although it seems to have gone now. Certainly when I started in Control in 1984 there was a Sectional Appendix instruction that sets were not to be left stabled at Neilston, which might also have resulted from this incident ?

 

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19 minutes ago, caradoc said:

I disagree !!! I travelled on the 303s from 1984 until their withdrawal and found them comfortable and pleasant, even after refurbishment. When they were replaced by Class 314 on my local line, the only advantage of the newer sets was the air suspension, in every other respect I preferred the 303. I should perhaps mention that line speed on my route is 50mph, so that may have coloured my opinion ! 

 

 I loved them .  Sitting behind the driver before they had blinds , route out of Glasgow Central at 20mph  then sharp right curve onto the Clyde Coast / Ayrshire lines , then they accelerated at Smithy Lye and what a great journey down the straight Glasgow and Paisley joint lines at max speed 70mph . Always used to try and get the express train at xx55 so no intermediate stops . From memory it was the sharp point work at Paisley as we diverged onto the Inverclyde lines that caused most lurching .    Generally they were comfortable units . I'm hoping one day we may see one from the manufacturers but they were fairly geographically restricted . Handsome trains though a bit of a BR icon in the 60s

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20 minutes ago, Legend said:

 

 I loved them .  Sitting behind the driver before they had blinds , route out of Glasgow Central at 20mph  then sharp right curve onto the Clyde Coast / Ayrshire lines , then they accelerated at Smithy Lye and what a great journey down the straight Glasgow and Paisley joint lines at max speed 70mph . Always used to try and get the express train at xx55 so no intermediate stops . From memory it was the sharp point work at Paisley as we diverged onto the Inverclyde lines that caused most lurching .    Generally they were comfortable units . I'm hoping one day we may see one from the manufacturers but they were fairly geographically restricted . Handsome trains though a bit of a BR icon in the 60s

Couldn't have written a better description myself :D

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3 hours ago, caradoc said:

I disagree !!! I travelled on the 303s from 1984 until their withdrawal and found them comfortable and pleasant, even after refurbishment. When they were replaced by Class 314 on my local line, the only advantage of the newer sets was the air suspension, in every other respect I preferred the 303. I should perhaps mention that line speed on my route is 50mph, so that may have coloured my opinion ! 

 

Regular travellers know where and where not to sit as there was considerable variation in ride between coaches.  The seats to avoid were those towards the rear of the front coach, immediately above the bogie, where it could get very lively.  I always preferred to sit in the MBSO which had much better ride characteristics.

 

Regarding 303002, it was the first unit to be scrapped after running away at Neilston, this unit and 303074 (Gilmour Street Crash) were photographed at Bellahouston C.S. and can be seen here http://www.eastbank.org.uk/images/Units/UK3210.jpg.  Units were not supposed to be parked off the juice in the Bay Platfor at Airdrie for the same reason, there having been a couple of runaways in steam days.

 

Jim

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I always have a soft spot for 303s, having travelled on them from the mid 80s as a child though and when I was at uni in the early to mid 90s. They did have a lively ride but that was part of their character. I always remember the compressor noise for some weird reason as well. The ride was definitely better in the middle carriage though. It wasn't as bad as the knackered class 120 dmu's being used on the Ayrshire routes just before electrification. I remember being quite scared on one, the bogie hunting at speed was quite alarming! Felt like it was about to derail at any second!  Much preferred 303s to 314s, more character. Used to love the unrefurbished ones for the view out the front. I'd love to have a model one now.

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On 14/01/2020 at 20:50, Ian Smeeton said:

The only 9-car set I ever saw was when one 3 car set failed at Gourock, and was recovered by coupling 2 x 3 (operational) car sets to get it back to Shields Rd as part of a scheduled service.

 

Not sure what happeneed at Central, perhaps a loco was used to shift the defective set.

 

I was a bit late taking up photography, so all of mine are in B/G after refurb

 

2010_0901Workshop0012.JPG.a70251c6c37831759e26739558d6a31d.JPG

 

Wallneuk Junction

 

2010_0901Workshop0085.JPG.549e25ebdb83f81c50ad2028bf05955d.JPG

 

The remains of Georgetown station on a very cold January morning

 

I think that the rest of my 303/311 photos are buried in the Scottish 80s photo thread somewhere.

 

I have some Worsley Works 2mmFS etches in the gloat/yet to be started box. Allen can usually rescale his etches if asked. otherwise there is a 3D print available and the DC kits version mentioned above.

 

Regards

 

Ian

Looks like your photos are unrefurbished units. The refurbs were most easily identified by the loss of the headcode box, and all bar a few unuts (from memory) received hopper windows upon refurb, so not the sliders as shown here. Also, I think all refurbs were painted Strathclyde red.

 

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39 minutes ago, keefer said:

going back the the OP's original question,  I found a layout diagram for the underframe eqpt. of the AM3s in the Final Report into the Transformer Explosions of 1960 (p.77 of 80) http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/MoT_EMUFailures1962.pdf

 

 

AM3_DTS.jpg

AM3_MBS.jpg

AM3_BDTS.jpg

Isn't this the same drawing Clive posted on the 13th?

 

Andi

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34 minutes ago, Dagworth said:

Isn't this the same drawing Clive posted on the 13th?

 

Andi

And the same report.

 

The 1960 OLE conference papers, from memory only show the equipment under the motor coaches for all but the 308s or 302s but that don't matter too much as they are basically the same.

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Has anyone ever located an engineering drawing of the Class 303?  I've been on the hunt for one,  on and off,  since the 1960s and all I could dig up was the diagrams with some dimensions.   I did contact the company who produced the 4mm scale kit and they said that they had measured up from an actual unit to generate their own drawings.

 

Jim.

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Just came across this topic. AM3's were always one of my favourites. Am I right in thinking the underfloor equipment was similar to the London Midland's AM4/304's? If so, I can fabricate some copies for my ongoing AM3 project.

 

The other query is what colour were they originally painted? An earlier post said 'a version of Caledonian Blue'. However, there was more than one Caledonian Blue. Some photographs seem to show a Sky Blue shade, but others, like Flubrush's picture seem to show a darker blue. Any ideas?

 

Incidentally, I think Flubrush's photo is of the special train run to open the system carrying HM The Queen. She is sitting behind the driver. Possibly one of the few occasions The Queen has travelled second class!

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The units were only ever painted in one shade of pseudo-Caley blue, any differences in pics will just be down to the exposure/film/processing etc., though which is most correct I don't know.

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2 hours ago, Wagpnmaster said:

She is sitting behind the driver. Possibly one of the few occasions The Queen has travelled second class!

 

On her current trip to Sandringham, she travelled on a Class 700, a very second-class experience.

 

I, too, liked the 303s. But the ride was poor, just as it was for all the EMUs fitted with Gresley bogies.

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That's what I thought Keefer. The problem is, what shade! The majority of photographs I have looked at lead me think more in terms of Caledonian Sky Blue. I appreciate the difficulties with film reproduction and memory. Witness the debate about Class 86's and Electric/Rail Blue! I think I shall go with Caley Sky Blue and see how they look.

 

I certainly agree with your comments Joseph on ride quality. I spent years commuting on AM4/304's being thrown about all the way to New Street! I found the motor car the most comfortable, probably on account of the extra weight of the car and the slightly different, longer wheelbase bogies.

 

Poor HM, I did see that she had to endure a Class 700!

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1 hour ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

On her current trip to Sandringham, she travelled on a Class 700, a very second-class experience.

 

I, too, liked the 303s. But the ride was poor, just as it was for all the EMUs fitted with Gresley bogies.

Ilford knew how to look after Gresley bogie stock. I cannot recall them being rough riders, they were equal to the mk2s and 312s we had on the Norwich line and better than the Mk1s. Not as good as a 309.

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4 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Ilford knew how to look after Gresley bogie stock. I cannot recall them being rough riders, they were equal to the mk2s and 312s we had on the Norwich line and better than the Mk1s. Not as good as a 309.

 

Something to do Ilford being an ex-LNER shed with previous experience perhaps? I used to try and skip an AM4/304 if I knew there was a following service with an AM10/310, much better with their B4 bogies. As for AM9/309's, they were great weren't they! Smooth as anything at 100mph with Commonwealth bogies.

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14 hours ago, Wagpnmaster said:

 

The other query is what colour were they originally painted? An earlier post said 'a version of Caledonian Blue'. However, there was more than one Caledonian Blue. Some photographs seem to show a Sky Blue shade, but others, like Flubrush's picture seem to show a darker blue. Any ideas?

 

 

My dad has a couple of Duchesses painted in the same Caledonian Blue as the 303s. My grandad worked on the 303s in Pressed Steel and dad got his Duchesses painted in the same paint and has never changed them. I have photos of them but it'll be at least 3 weeks before i can get access to them!

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13 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

On her current trip to Sandringham, she travelled on a Class 700, a very second-class experience.

 

I, too, liked the 303s. But the ride was poor, just as it was for all the EMUs fitted with Gresley bogies.

 

No she didn't, it was a 387 as normal, but no-doubt there was a royal bum cushion deployed...

 

Andy g

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16 hours ago, Wagpnmaster said:

Incidentally, I think Flubrush's photo is of the special train run to open the system carrying HM The Queen. She is sitting behind the driver. Possibly one of the few occasions The Queen has travelled second class!

 

Correct. :-)       It was taken just east of Dumbarton East on the trip back to Glasgow - mid 1960s.  I had never seen such a clean Blue Train. :-)   It wasn't to open the system.   I haven't seen any other pictures of this royal train.   I think I remember it being quite well publicised at the time and I expected a lot more people to be taking pictures.

 

Jim

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On 23/01/2020 at 06:11, WolfofBadenoch said:

 

My dad has a couple of Duchesses painted in the same Caledonian Blue as the 303s. My grandad worked on the 303s in Pressed Steel and dad got his Duchesses painted in the same paint and has never changed them. I have photos of them but it'll be at least 3 weeks before i can get access to them!

 

Ok, took slightly longer than 3 weeks but here is the photo i was talking about. Not that great, will need to try and get a better one!

P1010016.JPG

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