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BR green locos in the late 1970s


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48 minutes ago, Neil Phillips said:

 

At that time I was in west Cornwall surrounded by hydraulics! The first Class 47 I saw was D1677 Thor at Truro in autumn 67, after a slow start such visits picked up throughout 1968 but that's another story. Although there were no reported sightings of D1733 in Cornwall in Bsyp livery, it did show up not long after its overhaul.

I've seen so many photos of this loco showing the white-on-red logos on one side and plain on the other that I began to wonder if it did in fact ever carry four logos, or just the two for publicity photos. Eventually in exasperation I put this to Russell Saxton who sent me six new photos and just ONE of these proved that it did!!

It was also the only Class 47 to carry its works plates on the body sides. D1953-61 had them attached to the cab doors.

 

Neil

 

29 minutes ago, MidlandRed said:

 

Interesting - from information which has appeared from time to time Id always believed the symbols were removed before it entered normal revenue earning service - indeed it didn't have logos whenever I saw it (from the mid 60s on). Do we know for sure the period they were in place on the loco? 

 

I remember having a reasonably close look at the loco once when it was at Sheffield Midland on a platform stop, specifically to see if there was any sign of the red paint and or arrows on the cab side, and it seemed to me as though there was no trace of either. Datewise, this would be 68/69. 

 

Mike.

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Chaps,

Just to say thanks to everyone for their help - this really is developing into a fascinating insight of the time, so please do keep the comments coming!  I've updated the original question with some of the answers, it may save others searching through in the future.

 

It looks like from the comments, that a rake of Maroon Mk1s (or at least a mixed rake of Blue/Grey & Maroon) could be justified on NE-SW services at this time, so I think all in all, there is justification for the August/September 1976 time period, that was it includes the first four or five 56s as well, which were based ta Tinsley.

 

Just to add another dimension, does any one have any idea when the last green 101 or 108 DMU went?  I think the units were painted fairly early one from what I've seen in pictures.

 

Rich

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8 minutes ago, MarshLane said:

 

 

Just to add another dimension, does any one have any idea when the last green 101 or 108 DMU went?  I think the units were painted fairly early one from what I've seen in pictures.

 

 

 

There were single cars in green until fairly late in the 60s and a very few into the 70s but I don't have specific information on classes 101 / 108.  My recollection is of seeing a green coach with two blue ones in a class 120 cross-country set at Salisbury in around 1971.

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3 hours ago, BernardTPM said:

As the '70s progressed more DMUs became blue/grey rather than just blue. By 1976 there were the white with blue stripe refurbished ones around and that livery was replaced with blue/grey later on anyway.

Thanks Bernard, 

That is one that was going to be on my hit list. I do seem to be swaying more and more towards August/September 1976.  There is a lot more variety in traction and liveries thats you would think (especially the liveries.

 

Rich

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7 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

 

I remember having a reasonably close look at the loco once when it was at Sheffield Midland on a platform stop, specifically to see if there was any sign of the red paint and or arrows on the cab side, and it seemed to me as though there was no trace of either. Datewise, this would be 68/69. 

 

Mike.

The red panels on D1733 were made of paper and on 1st July 1964 they were peeling off when noted on Oxford shed.

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There was a maroon set of rather shabby Mk1s stowed in the up sidings south of Crewe station in 1975. I understand they were used as a test set for locos out of works. but there's also been pics of that set on here at Skegness!

 

I started on BR in November 74 and don't recall any other maroon coaches at all, maybe a few parcel vans, but who knows what colour they were under the grime? The only green locos I remember seeing were a few 350s here and there, but again so dirty it was hard to tell.

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Certainly by 1976 green locos were so rare as to be remarkable.

 

Through the early 70s, whenever I saw one I used to note it (which would help, if I hadn't thrown my notebooks away in a house move clear-out!). After I started working for BR in '76 I ceased noting things, but my recollections are exactly as Roy says.

 

One class that I do remember used to produce the odd green one in the London area in the early 70s was 37, I think from Stratford. 

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4 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

One class that I do remember used to produce the odd green one in the London area in the early 70s was 37, I think from Stratford. 

 

Stratford produced green 31s and 37s until quite late.  They also produced a green 03 which I saw in Poplar Docks some (unrecorded) time in the early 70s possibly 1973.  I suspect some of their low-mileage shunter duties saw the locos stay on site for months at a time so they seldom visited "home" and were never a priority for the paint shop.  

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I remember seeing green cl20s and 47s around Nottingham in the time mentioned, 1976 or 77.

I never realised at the time, but have (a lot more recently) read on here that these were actually repainted at Crewe in green after BR blue became standard, and so all had full yellow ends.

Memory may be playing tricks now, but I remember 20147 as the last in green, and being very annoyed, as a12 or 13 year-old, seeing it in shiny new blue at Derby around 78 or 79.

Edited by DavidBird
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The only thing I remember was that 40106 was the last 40 in green in 1978.  She became something of a celebrity and I believe kept her green livery and was never repainted blue . Certainly model railways of the period in BR Blue always had a version of 40106 , the only green loco around. 

 

106 was repainted BR Blue at Crewe until the 'phone rang and someone politely pointed out the error of their ways!  I have, rather sadly, seen a 'photo of said loco in BR blue, followed two days later by BR Green.  quite how they achieved that (wet paint etc) is anybodies guess.  Upon being repainted they forgot (?) to remove the works plate and if you look very, very closely at good hi-def pics you can see the blue surrounding the plate.  For the sake of completeness I've also seem a photo of 106 prior to the works plate being reattached and the area beneath was blue.

 

I also recall seeing the odd Class 47 in shabby BR Green on Trans Pennine jobs in 1976.  Quite common to see loco classses in the North West still in green.

IMG_0006_28Custom29.jpg

Edited by CliveM
Look closely! (Photographer unkown)
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I've seen a colour photo of D1733 with the logos, looking dirty and on a freight. We all know how quickly locomotives could get dirty, even in summer, and I don't think it ran with logos in traffic for very long. I've seen it reported that the vinyl logos became a bit dog-eared and somebody eventually peeled them off and stuck them to the inside wall of Old Oak Common' s Pullman shed, although I find it hard to believe that a BR employee would take it upon themselves to do this without authorisation! But perhaps he had it. And perhaps somebody has photo-evidence.....

OTTOMH I think both the photo and this story can be found in an article by Adrian Curtis in TRACTION 90 - sadly right now I can't check this.

Edited by Neil Phillips
Didn't realise there's a page 2 already! Changed "it" to "D1733".
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I'm certain I saw 56s at Rugby in 1975, they used to work from the Nottingham area. Rugby men at the time had fairly limited route knowledge, London-Liverpool-Manchester via all electrified routes. The only regular diesel jobs were class 25s and the 350s. I don't recall seeing any green 25s at that time. The only diesel line they signed was the Southam branch.

 

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15 minutes ago, roythebus said:

I'm certain I saw 56s at Rugby in 1975, they used to work from the Nottingham area. Rugby men at the time had fairly limited route knowledge, London-Liverpool-Manchester via all electrified routes. The only regular diesel jobs were class 25s and the 350s. I don't recall seeing any green 25s at that time. The only diesel line they signed was the Southam branch.

 

Thanks Roy,

I believe the first 56s, the Romanian batch, were delivered to Tinsley Shed from Harwich in June/July 1976, although I'll happily stand corrected if anyone has other data.  They were of course delivered in BR blue from the start!

 

Rich

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Two from 1977: 08 497 in green at Leeds 13th August 1977 (composition could have been better, sorry - Instamatic from moving train)

08437Leeds-130877-1Or.jpeg.d0997c87265c75ee2357aba2d9778e3e.jpeg

 

and 47 365 in Crewe Works on the 24th September 1977. Probably lost it's green at this visit I would have thought?

47365CreweWorks240977.jpg.19ee7cf81b92c4b59ce01f6987c8835a.jpg

Edited by billy_anorak59
Lousy 43 year-old data
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I'm certain I saw 56s at Rugby in 1975,

Definately not. 47601 was the test bed loco in the mid 70's.  56's were built later and has been well documented.  The first 20 from Romania and were dreadful quality.  had to go straight into works for remedial. 

 

Nice to see 47 365 in BR green and I wonder if that was one I saw on a Trans Pennine job at about this time? 

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10 hours ago, billy_anorak59 said:

Two from 1977: 08 497 in green at Leeds 13th August 1977 (composition could have been better, sorry - Instamatic from moving train)

08437Leeds-130877-1Or.jpeg.d0997c87265c75ee2357aba2d9778e3e.jpeg

 

and 47 365 in Crewe Works on the 24th September 1977. Probably lost it's green at this visit I would have thought?

47365CreweWorks240977.jpg.19ee7cf81b92c4b59ce01f6987c8835a.jpg

No 47367 was the last to be painted blue whilst in two tone green, 47256 which had been repainted by Cardiff Canton in all over green was the very last loco to sucumb to blue.

 

Simon

 

 

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On 19/01/2020 at 23:24, MarshLane said:

Thanks Roy,

I believe the first 56s, the Romanian batch, were delivered to Tinsley Shed from Harwich in June/July 1976, although I'll happily stand corrected if anyone has other data.  They were of course delivered in BR blue from the start!

 

Rich

 

56001 and 56002 arrived in these shore 4th August 1976, but didn't enter traffic until 28th Feb 1977.

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On 18/01/2020 at 22:37, roythebus said:

There was a maroon set of rather shabby Mk1s stowed in the up sidings south of Crewe station in 1975. I understand they were used as a test set for locos out of works. but there's also been pics of that set on here at Skegness!

 

The maroon set was still working on excursion traffic and limited relief workings from Derby, up to the end of 1974. Then it became test train stock for a year or two before being disposed of.

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