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MarshLane

BR green locos in the late 1970s

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I'd certainly have drawn a line at counting identifiable cab shells sitting on the ground at e.g. Derby Works as cops, never mind the sad spectacle of flame-cut number panels in later years, but an entire body shell qualified in my book!

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From MarshLane´s original list -

This loco seems to be the last spotted in original green.

 

20141 [CHB] noted Westhouses in 1980 - early badge

 

Can any one beat that? Or was that the last loco to carry original green in service?

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Useless but interesting fact, Crewe was turning out class 47 eth conversions with the loco's still wearing green paint and many of the Toton class 20's to get dualbrake conversions in the 70's retained green . Rail mag had an article in it's early days  which contained what was to believed to be the definative list of loco's in green with TOPs numbers. I cross referenced this with my 1974 Ian Allan which I had at the time(still do!).

This Flickr site is also useful https://www.flickr.com/groups/br_green_liveried_tops_locos/pool/

Edited by w124bob

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True, but no more than half a dozen. The WR' s first two eth conversions were early blue 1932 and green 1936, in late 1971. Since the WR had no eth stock at the time I believe they were loaned to Gateshead for the summer of 1972 and worked the ECML. They became 47493 and 47494 still in early blue and green respectively. A few of the 11xx series were eth fitted whilst still in green, I can't recall which ones offhand but under TOPS they were renumbered within the 4752x range.

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On 06/02/2020 at 20:24, SouthernBlue80s said:

From MarshLane´s original list -

This loco seems to be the last spotted in original green.

 

20141 [CHB] noted Westhouses in 1980 - early badge

 

Can any one beat that? Or was that the last loco to carry original green in service?

The Railblue website has 20141 & 20147 as 'possibly' the last two, in July 1980 (in the absence of any other sightings)

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On 24/01/2020 at 21:10, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

I don't wish to come across as a total pedant, but, the pull push 19 out of the 98 makes up a fair percentage, plus the rest of them could add up to going on for half of the class probably, I don't specifically remember seeing a non D BRCW 3, but quite a few with one.

 

Mike.

(I'll STFU and return to the naughty step if required!)



There were a fair few in blue with a D and a fair few without, the last did not go blue till may 1971 (6566)

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On 06/02/2020 at 20:24, SouthernBlue80s said:

From MarshLane´s original list -

This loco seems to be the last spotted in original green.

 

20141 [CHB] noted Westhouses in 1980 - early badge

 

Can any one beat that? Or was that the last loco to carry original green in service?

That was the last main line loco but the last of all was 08934.

 

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Posted (edited)
On 07/02/2020 at 21:30, w124bob said:

Useless but interesting fact, Crewe was turning out class 47 eth conversions with the loco's still wearing green paint and many of the Toton class 20's to get dualbrake conversions in the 70's retained green . Rail mag had an article in it's early days  which contained what was to believed to be the definative list of loco's in green with TOPs numbers. I cross referenced this with my 1974 Ian Allan which I had at the time(still do!).

This Flickr site is also useful https://www.flickr.com/groups/br_green_liveried_tops_locos/pool/


It was Rail Express by yours truly. This is the article from 2003 but in the 17 years since I have managed to update this considerably and whilst this is largely the 'definitive' list I now have an even more definitive list!
I'll go through it and update where needed as I managed to find amongst others at least one extra green 24 (094) and an extra 47 (061) plus confirm/deny most of the probable and possible section.
I stress this is basically comprehensive as written but if there is interest (I'm guessing there is!) I can post the current state of play as of May 2020.
I must hold my hand up and say there are one or two listed I'm not so sure of given further research and are now relegated to the possibles list,
With 24s add 24094.  24069/110 relegated to 'possibles' and 24071 def not.
With 25s you can add 25054
37s, add 37186 and drop 37208/23/38 to the probables list.
47s add 47061 but demote 47125 and 47205 to possible

The probables and possibles lists changes are.
LOSE AS NOT GREEN TOPS 08294, 08367, 20171, 24042, 31286, 37106, 40189/90, 

CONFIRM AS GREEN TOPS 20028/57, 37186, 47170/3/82, 47206/18/23, 

Apart from that lot I would stick my neck out and say everything else is accurate. 
Cue a Photo of one I never knew about in 5...4...3...

https://railexpress.wordpress.com/2007/08/01/welcome-to-the-computer-age/

Edited by Russell Saxton
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+1 from me.

Any advance in the state of knowledge of green 31's with TOPS numbers? Last I heard was that there was one possibility (can't remember which), but no definitive photographic evidence has been found.

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22 minutes ago, Russell Saxton said:


It was Rail Express by yours truly. This is the article from 2003 but in the 17 years since I have managed to update this considerably and whilst this is largely the 'definitive' list I now have an even more definitive list!
I'll go through it and update where needed as I managed to find amongst others at least one extra green 24 (094) and an extra 47 (061) plus confirm/deny most of the probable and possible section.
I stress this is basically comprehensive as written but if there is interest (I'm guessing there is!) I can post the current state of play as of may 2020.

https://railexpress.wordpress.com/2007/08/01/welcome-to-the-computer-age/

 

Yes please Russell!  Im sure it would be highly appreciated, including by me ;)

 

Rich

 

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I'm publishing a book on the topic very shortly, photos of all the major varieties and lots of gen on dates and styles. I'll post the link when it appears, prob around July.

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7 minutes ago, rodent279 said:

+1 from me.

Any advance in the state of knowledge of green 31's with TOPS numbers? Last I heard was that there was one possibility (can't remember which), but no definitive photographic evidence has been found.


31294 is the only one. A low res  photo has emerged, unmistakeably 31294 but not great quality.
The number is not readable but is definitely 31 xxx and photographer assures me it was 294, taken 2/3/74 at Bristol parkway.
If i can get permission I'll post it up. 31286 was thought to be a possible but it can be discounted. it did go into works green in early 1974 as 5818 but went blue at the time. It was the last green 31, 31294 was the second last.

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OK, scroll up and Ive edited my post on green TOPS to include all known changes recorded in the last 17 years.

Not too many, mainly confirmations of doubtful ones but i did have to lose a small number as more evidence has come to light.  Thankfully there were very few amendments!

 

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It was Rail Express by yours truly. This is the article from 2003 but in the 17 years since I have managed to update this considerably and whilst this is largely the 'definitive' list I now have an even more definitive list!
I'll go through it and update where needed as I managed to find amongst others at least one extra green 24 (094) and an extra 47 (061) plus confirm/deny most of the probable and possible section.
I stress this is basically comprehensive as written but if there is interest (I'm guessing there is!) I can post the current state of play as of May 2020.
I must hold my hand up and say there are one or two listed I'm not so sure of given further research and are now relegated to the possibles list,
With 24s add 24094.  24069/110 relegated to 'possibles' and 24071 def not.
With 25s you can add 25054
37s, add 37186 and drop 37208/23/38 to the probables list.
47s add 47061 but demote 47125 and 47205 to possible

The probables and possibles lists changes are.
LOSE AS NOT GREEN TOPS 08294, 08367, 20171, 24042, 31286, 37106, 40189/90, 

CONFIRM AS GREEN TOPS 20028/57, 37186, 47170/3/82, 47206/18/23, 

Apart from that lot I would stick my neck out and say everything else is accurate. 
Cue a Photo of one I never knew about in 5...4...3...

https://railexpress.wordpress.com/2007/08/01/welcome-to-the-computer-age/

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I must also add that this is still a work in progress and from time to time (twice in three years!) a previously unknown green TOPS loco has been discovered. 24094 most recently, totally unknown to me beforehand.
It's as accurate as it's possible to get as we speak, but every time i say that I find something new. 
Some ran only for weeks, maybe days as green TOPs but I guess the well is now largely drained.
The only way to be sure is to find a shot of every loco not listed already as green as blue!  Give me a another few years and I'll get it done!
 

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How about an EMU still in its original green livery in the 1980s? Admittedly it had been in storage for a while, but still...

 

Class 504 at Watford Junction 1982

 

Class 504 Manchester-Bury DTS M77157M - Watford Junction.

 

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Posted (edited)

Still on its original bogies too - have seen pics of other green 504s on wagon-style accommodation bogies

Edited by keefer

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4 minutes ago, keefer said:

Still on its original bogies too - have seen pics of other green 504s on wagon-style accommodation bogies

 

Did the look at using them on the DC lines or were they for spares for the 501s?

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3 hours ago, montyburns56 said:

How about an EMU still in its original green livery in the 1980s? Admittedly it had been in storage for a while, but still...

 

Class 504 at Watford Junction 1982

 

Class 504 Manchester-Bury DTS M77157M - Watford Junction.

 

 

IIRC correctly it gradually made its way north, being stored in the old down side yard at Northampton for a while then likewise at Rugby.

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10 minutes ago, russ p said:

 

Did the look at using them on the DC lines or were they for spares for the 501s?

Spares for the 501s. Around 1983 I was at Watford Junction and a 501 was in platform 4 in plain blue...but with a green lined door in one of the luggage pairs. Sadly thos was before I had a camera, and I never saw it again so presume it was quickly given a lick of blue paint. I assumed it had been taken from one of the stored 501s but it's entirely possible that it was instead from the green 504.

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Posted (edited)

Found one of the pics i was thinking of:

http://martynhilbert.railpic.net/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=2941

Several units were withdrawn after service reductions in the '60s.

States the accommodation bogies used were from the original L&Y units withdrawn in 1959.

 

There are several other pics of withdrawn 504s in the same folder including ones in BSYP and blue with full-cab yellow ends:

e.g. page 2 http://martynhilbert.railpic.net/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=11&page=2

Edited by keefer

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If it's the same one, it spent years in Wolverton works, visible from the main line, in the sidings at the south end of the works. I think it was made redundant by a fall-off in traffic on the Bury route. AFAIK they were never looked at for Euston-Watford/Broad St - different voltage (1200V D.C. as opposed to 630 V D.C.) & method of collection (side contact instead of top contact) for a start, plus I believe they were too long, being standard 19m Mk1's.

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