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Paul.Uni

Oxford Rail 2020

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3 hours ago, Legend said:

...Maybe Oxford following suit with a series of somewhat unrelated products 

Suggests the interesting thought: is there anything in the way of a group of related traction and stock products with no existing competition and likely to find ready sales, that OR could have gone after for their market entry? Or has all the low hanging fruit been picked?

 

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Hi All,

What about some Mk3 coaches in the 'Royal' livery.....

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Why would there have to be no existing competition?  They went toe to toe with Hornby on the Dean Goods, Mk3s and (possibly, not sure on the timescales) that freak LSWR tank engine.  Now, with Lyndon in charge of Hornby and his daughter nominally running Oxford I expect toe to toe competition with Hornby would be unlikely, but there are plenty of things they could produce.  LNWR 4-4-0 locos would be very welcome, the small Stanier and Fowler 2-6-2 tanks, a LNWR Precedent, even in diesels there are locos they could pick off that may compete successfully with an existing tool, that wouldn't compete with Hornby if that is a consideration.  That's without following the likes of Hornby, Heljan and Bachmann who have all invested serious moolah in new AC Electrics that allegedly don't sell, a Class 81, the fourth largest class of electric locos and long lived, would at least give something correct to haul their Mk3s and Carflats.

I don't think competition is an issue, but I'd be surprised if we see much being announced from the toy fair, I just don't think Oxford are that bothered about the rail range at the moment, they seem to be in a treading water situation especially on their core diecasts side of things where there haven't been the number and range of new developments of late compared to a few years back.  

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More military items please - the rail gun is fantastic!

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I suspect we will see something announced as they are meeting a price point with new tooling that the existing manufacturers, with their higher overheads, maybe can't to economically.

 

I don't see any further tooling done on the Mk3 - Hornby will clearly see the Mk3 as a Hornby product.  So maybe further liveries on the loco hauled Mk3, but maybe not.  Reasonably safe guess that at some point in the next year or so Hornby  will announce a new tooled HST Mk3 given that the new slide-door Mk3 tooling is likely flexible.

 

The Class 86 is doubtful, unless they want to play spoiler to Heljan.  Yes, there is a market for electrics, but how much of a market will be the question and thus whether duplicates of new tooled versions (unlike say Hornby re-releasing some old tooling in the railroad range).

 

But there still exists a lot of stuff the Oxford could choose from, that at an Oxford price could likely sell enough to make a profit even if it doesn't have the potential to be released 5 times in the next decade.

 

Without knowing enough to guess, perhaps something in a goods wagon for the new Hornby steam to pull?

 

Or, from the Quirky poll, the GWR Crane Tank - unique enough that at the right price a lot of people would pick it up for fun reasons, just like the rail gun.

 

Neglected market - GWR B-sets or Autocoach.

 

Sure there are a lot of similar items from other regions that could see a viable product from Oxford.

 

 

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Surely there is an Autocoach from both Hornby and Bachmann?

 

Like the idea of a B Set though and a Crane Tank....inspired :good_mini:

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1 hour ago, boxbrownie said:

Surely there is an Autocoach from both Hornby and Bachmann?

 

Like the idea of a B Set though and a Crane Tank....inspired :good_mini:

 

The Bachmann Autocoach is a newer design, while the Hornby is apparently a combination of various designs and thus accurate for none.  There are a number of people who would like an earlier design, and in a way Oxford would seem the best fit.

 

But more broadly, there are still a lot of quirky (look not just at the ones included in the recent Christmas poll, but all the items suggested for future polls) that could possibly sell well if brought in at a low price and it appears Oxford are set up to do that.

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I wonder if the mystery LNWR 2-4-0 "Hardwicke" in the Hatton's Genesis coach listings might be an NRM commission via Oxford?  They did revamp their Dean Goods to better satisfy the NRM after all, and it'll no doubt be aimed at collectors which Oxford are good at.  It would at least give something just about LMS in the range as well.  Given Oxford have at best a scattergun approach to the development of their range who knows.

I still can't fathom why the Oxford building range has migrated into the Hornby Skaledale brand though, which does rather suggest another direction for Oxford Rail.

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4 hours ago, mdvle said:

 

The Class 86 is doubtful, unless they want to play spoiler to Heljan.  Yes, there is a market for electrics, but how much of a market will be the question and thus whether duplicates of new tooled versions (unlike say Hornby re-releasing some old tooling in the railroad range).

 

 

Depends rather if the cost of development and tooling up has already been spent.  Heljan announced their intention to produce the early AL6 last year, but Oxford rather oddly decided to illustrate their intention to produce Virgin liveried Mk3 coaches the year before with a three-quarter shot of an 86 hauling a rake rather than a mock up or even just a side picture of a real coach as Hornby and Bachmann tend to do.  There is a bit of a tradition with Oxford for having a bit of fun and teasing collectors, so who knows, it would be on form for them, although we might just as likely be reading too much into things.  If - and it's a big if - they have committed a quarter mil to develop a new Class 86 I would expect them to carry on regardless of Heljan's news in the hope of getting some of the money back, it's a lot to just cancel.

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They will be announcing a LNER/BR (NER) B16/2 or B16/3. How do I know? Well I have just ordered a kit one off E-Bay. 

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1 hour ago, wombatofludham said:

I wonder if the mystery LNWR 2-4-0 "Hardwicke" in the Hatton's Genesis coach listings might be an NRM commission via Oxford?  They did revamp their Dean Goods to better satisfy the NRM after all, and it'll no doubt be aimed at collectors which Oxford are good at.

 

Would the NRM be in any hurry, given that experience, to do another project with Oxford?  And given Oxford's general track record?

 

I would almost wonder if Hardwicke might be a Hatton's project once they get the Class 66 first deliveries done & sorted (and hence money paid).  Not knocking the genesis coaches, but I would think Hatton's would want some of the money from motive power to pull them as well.

 

1 hour ago, wombatofludham said:

I still can't fathom why the Oxford building range has migrated into the Hornby Skaledale brand though, which does rather suggest another direction for Oxford Rail.

 

Could be as simple as a quick cash inflow to Hornby to help with the finances, and Oxford Rail can continue doing rolling stock and engines?

 

1 hour ago, wombatofludham said:

Depends rather if the cost of development and tooling up has already been spent. 

 

True enough, though I do also wonder if an 86 might have been considered yet another "Hornby item"

 

 

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8 minutes ago, mdvle said:

I would almost wonder if Hardwicke might be a Hatton's project once they get the Class 66 first deliveries done & sorted (and hence money paid).  Not knocking the genesis coaches, but I would think Hatton's would want some of the money from motive power to pull them as well.

Butt Genesis covers so many companies, LSWR is only one aspect. And unlikely enough to justify that level of tooling as a tie-in.

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My guess for Oxford 2020:

1. BR Standard 3MT
2. J21 - makes sense using chassis from J27
3. HST Mk. 3 stock. 
4. Railvac - something completely nuts like rail-gun. 
5. HEA Wagon. 

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On 16/01/2020 at 16:15, Flying Pig said:

 

You won't be buying the all new Fowler 7F with working inside motion and axlebox glow then?

From what I've heard of these things, it's a pity the LMS bought them...

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7 hours ago, boxbrownie said:

Surely there is an Autocoach from both Hornby and Bachmann?

 

Like the idea of a B Set though and a Crane Tank....inspired :good_mini:

There are huge gaps in the availability of auto trailers from the RTR people; Hornby do the Silurian Era ex-Airfix A28/30 (it contains features of both types and is not a completely accurate rendition of either), and Bachmann do the A38, which was not introduced until BR days.  The A38 is also available from Comet, as is the A44 'Cyclops' trailer, another BR type.  K's used to do a very heavy whitemetal kit for the A31, a panelled railmotor rebuild, and there is (or was) a kit for the Clifton Downs type.  No 70' trailer, no panelled trailer to modern standards, no matchboard trailer.  I live in hope that Dapol can be one day persuaded to release their ex-Lionheart Diagram N trailer in 00, but would be quite as happy for Ox to do it!

 

A similar situation pertains with regard to B sets.  There were several types, and only one has ever been available RTR, the ex Airfix E140.  This is a good model for the period but has not been updated and is showing it's age.  An E116 was available as a plastic kit from K's, which is a bit basic but can be worked up; like their A31 trailer it sometimes turns up on 'Bay.  No E129, E135, E145 (though this is basically an E140 with 9' bogies) or E147, this last being essential for South Wales modellers.  It is available as a Comet kit.  

 

There is a general lack of GW non-gangwayed passenger stock, slightly addressed by Hornby's bowended suburbans last year but with a large variety of suitable stock to produce if Ox are willing to give it a go.  Problem for RTR manufacturers is that the GW, particularly in the Collett era, standardised on compartment sizes and built coaches out of combinations of compartments joined together, meaning that brake 3rds, full 3rds, and composites of a given style were all of different lengths; different chassis would have to be tooled for each coach.  Pre 1927 period GW modellers only have the old Triang shorty clerestories and Ratio 4 wheeler kits.  

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Can see something a little more niche from the LMS such as a Tilbury Tank. Pretty pre-grouping livery to sell it in too. 

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On 18/01/2020 at 13:38, CB Rail said:

Hi All,

What about some Mk3 coaches in the 'Royal' livery.....

Jeez I hope not. After the cock up they made with the Intercity colours, the Royal Train coaches may well turn out to be bright pink!!!

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16 hours ago, The Johnster said:

From what I've heard of these things, it's a pity the LMS bought them...

 

Built surely?

 

Unfortunately it was a case of having successful designs in the LNWR and L&YR 0-8-0s and MR 4F 0-6-0 and thinking that if you combine them you will get something suitable. What works on paper doesn't necessarily work in practice. Built originally to eliminate the need to use double heading 4Fs on the ex MR lines. A problem not really solved until the arrival of 8Fs.

 

Most of them ended up in the ex L&Y/LNWR areas where they were seen as being inferior to the native locomotives. Most had gone by 1952. Probably when the boilers needed renewing.

 

 

Jason

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I am hoping for a J69, the N7s seem to have sold well and Oxford have said they intend to work through the variations of the class. I think a lot of people that bought N7s would buy J67/68/69s plus they are relevant to other areas such as Scotland. Oxford also seem keen to do something in GER blue so the J69 would be a good candidate. I think a Liverpool st Pilot twin pack J69/N7 would be a nice collector item. Failing that I would certainly buy a Tillbury tank, which has a nice variety of liveries to choose from.

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Following the above post, I have had in mind the J17. Preserved example, simple 0.6.0, choice of liveries and should be able to be bought in at a good price point. Complements the N7, plus Hornby's ex.G.E. range.

Oxford have kept to relatively simple chassised locos. so far, no complex valve gear.

Cheers from Oz,

Peter C.

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2 hours ago, 45568 said:

Following the above post, I have had in mind the J17. Preserved example, simple 0.6.0, choice of liveries and should be able to be bought in at a good price point. Complements the N7, plus Hornby's ex.G.E. range.

Oxford have kept to relatively simple chassised locos. so far, no complex valve gear.

Cheers from Oz,

Peter C.

I forgot about the possibility of a J17. The preserved loco belongs to the National Collection, so could be a future Locomotion Models commission.

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LNWR Prince of Wales 4-6-0 would be lovely,   (or a 19" Goods).   Well I can live in hope can't I....

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Diecast wise, I hope they do the Churchill Mk IV and VI (the most common types by far) and Sherman M4A4 (Sherman V - the type used most be the British) including a Firefly variant of the latter for our Warwells (the current M4A2 or Sharman III was never converted to Firefly use, probably because of the diesel engine).

What about some cars of the Vauxhal (GM) brand?

 

Trains, Mk III in HST to replace those aging Hornby ones.

 

 

 

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LMS vans are a massive black hole in RTR that could readily be filled, served at the moment by Dapols ancient Airfix hybrid and the sole Bachmann offering which is equally as archaic. Oxfords cheap and cheerful approach to wagons applied to possibly the most common vans on the network at one point, with a couple of key detail variations, really wouldn't go amiss. A foray into LMS territory would be most welcomed, especially given they haven't done the Crimson Lake mob yet (not to mention Hornbys recently released LMS brake vans). To tie in with vans and in keeping with their penchant for small locomotives, one of the many permeations of the Midland 2F theme could fill some huge gaps, the Kirtley 700 in particular would also fit the WD theme given that a good number went to Europe.

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