Items of commercial interest for British H0

[Allegheny1600]

Promised from Brekina: https://brekina.de/index.php?eID=tx_securedownloads&u=0&g=0&t=1580473623&hash=6d6943a686e46a539cba61a690bdc9bc7e82b5f0&file=fileadmin/DATEIEN/Prospekte/2020/01_Messe/BREKINA_Messe_2020_WEB.pdf  Page 10 of 16.

A classic London Routemaster bus in red or green.

An iconic vehicle, I hope it encourages them to produce more wonderful vehicles, we already have much to be grateful to Brekina for.

Edited January 30, 2020 by Allegheny1600
Link corrected

[BernardTPM]

Some nice Granadas too, not to mention a DAF (they used to be reasonably popular here). Odd they're doing the FX4 in resin (BoS series) though, given how well it would go with the RM for a gift set.

[rue_d_etropal]

interesting. Odd they have not done a London Country version, as that was more common than the Greenline version.

Pity British manufacturers do not do online catalogues like this, although I think Oxford might have something online,talking of which pity Oxford don't do their British models in HO as well. Interest in Britain might not be that much, but I am sure they would sell well overseas, and of course there would still be some interest in Britain.

Edited January 18, 2020 by rue_d_etropal

[BernardTPM]

Yes and the Green Line one should have the twin headlghts too which the Country version wouldn't have needed.

Oxford Catalogue online (but perhaps not quite up to date?)

Edited January 18, 2020 by BernardTPM

[giz]

15 hours ago, BernardTPM said:

Yes and the Green Line one should have the twin headlghts too which the Country version wouldn't have needed.

Oxford Catalogue online (but perhaps not quite up to date?)

The green Country ones were long RMLs though, the only green short RMs were the twin headlight RMCs.

[BernardTPM]

They need two sets of headlights then!

[Allegheny1600]

Nothing for ages then two come along at once!

A simply gorgeous 1910 London double decker coming from Artitec (Holland);

Pic from Model:87 blogspot.

 

I don't know if that's the price (€68,80) ouch if it is!

 

 

Edited January 30, 2020 by Allegheny1600
Photo credit (embedded link)

[rue_d_etropal]

Artitec arenot cheap, butmany of their models can be bought either kit or ready built. I wonder how much you would have to pay someone for a  scratchbuilt one to be made?!! look at prices for Langley OO scale vehicles(all kits) and Artitec prces don't seem too bad.

Woth while checking out old Lesney Matchbox commercial vehicles as they vary in size from 2mm up to 4mm scale. Just got a few, some are suitable for HO , some forTT3.

I have done some Scammells for HO a while back

http://www.rue-d-etropal.com/3D-printing/vehicles/3d_printed_vehicles.htm

[Allegheny1600]

A class 58 in H0 scale!

https://i.materialise.com/en/shop/item/british-rail-class-58-ho-scale?fbclid=IwAR23F5NyQ_dPz_dJeKtQOWoqyAANSyn2j_mx5uMOsaBHS2vMqlCRn9SeE_Q

 

Now that's sixty odd quid I don't mind spending and I will be doing shortly.

[rue_d_etropal]

Looking at the other items from this designer and they are all Tasmanian ,as that is where he is based.

[Allegheny1600]

He also does a BR class 04 diesel shunter too!

https://i.materialise.com/en/shop/item/british-rail-class-04-ho-sclae?query=1%3A87&category=all-categories&sortBy=interesting&pageNumber=4&pageSize=18&index=5

 

It looks as though this had a local Tasmanian equal so perhaps that is how he got into British outline. I'm certainly grateful to him as the I-materialise product looks vastly superior to the Shapeways "crusty" stuff!

[Moxy]

50 minutes ago, Allegheny1600 said:

He also does a BR class 04 diesel shunter too!

https://i.materialise.com/en/shop/item/british-rail-class-04-ho-sclae?query=1%3A87&category=all-categories&sortBy=interesting&pageNumber=4&pageSize=18&index=5

 

It looks as though this had a local Tasmanian equal so perhaps that is how he got into British outline. I'm certainly grateful to him as the I-materialise product looks vastly superior to the Shapeways "crusty" stuff!

 

Thanks for finding that producer, that looks very interesting.  While I note his comments about the fragility of the handrails, I think I would be tempted to cut them off & replace them by wire.

 

12mm drivers at 15.75mm + 15.75mm centres in HO.

 

A Drewry may very well be on the shopping list next payday!

[rue_d_etropal]

5 hours ago, Allegheny1600 said:

He also does a BR class 04 diesel shunter too!

https://i.materialise.com/en/shop/item/british-rail-class-04-ho-sclae?query=1%3A87&category=all-categories&sortBy=interesting&pageNumber=4&pageSize=18&index=5

 

It looks as though this had a local Tasmanian equal so perhaps that is how he got into British outline. I'm certainly grateful to him as the I-materialise product looks vastly superior to the Shapeways "crusty" stuff!

Shapeways do a variety of materials, The problem with Imaterialise , I believe is that to sell a design, you have to get one printed first. This reduces the number of models someone can design, unless they have won the lottery.

[Allegheny1600]

10 hours ago, rue_d_etropal said:

Shapeways do a variety of materials, The problem with Imaterialise , I believe is that to sell a design, you have to get one printed first. This reduces the number of models someone can design, unless they have won the lottery.

Fair enough!

By the way, I'm not in any way "attacking" you, Simon - I have Shapeways products from other designers too and the WSF is a common material and I simply find it hard to work with. When I prepared the interiors for my friends ICE-TD, it took four coats of undercoat to make the surfaces passable and ready for actual painting. This causes a fair bit of surface detail to become lost but it's still worthwhile!

I have another British diesel printed in the I-materialise type resin and that is much nicer.

Cheers,

John.

[rue_d_etropal]

John, the problem is that others seem to advocate the 'cover it up' method, whereas I recommend smoothing it down using good quality sandpaper(the non clogging stuff- often green) . WSF is a lot stronger than any of the finer plastics, and far far easier andcheaper to paint(or stain).

[47137]

I've had mixed results from Shapeways.

• On the first occasion, the model was the wrong scale. The designer disagreed with me, and I still had to pay Shapeways.
• On the second occasion, things worked out ok-ish, but the finish of the print was very rough - much like the WSF described here.
• On the third occasion, the "fine detail frosted plastic" was like an eggshell. The model blew itself apart. The material was incredibly fragile, and the design meant the print had to be altered to fit the chassis. Again, the designer refused all liability.
• Last time, I bought a boiler backhead and this was great.

The Shapeways business model seems to put all liability for the purchase onto the buyer, and so for now I quite like the idea of i.materialise needing a sample print before allowing a listing on their site. This is in complete innocence of what I will actually get!

 

I've ordered up two of the class 04 prints from i.materialise ... I will report back on how the results compare with the Shapeways prints I've had.

 

Edit: I must add: I haven't tried any of Simon's prints; and it may be I've been a bit unlucky with Shapeways.

 

- Richard.

Edited February 3, 2020 by 47137

[rue_d_etropal]

The imateralise method only allows a relatively small number of designs to ever exist. No-one can afford to get a sample of every variation/scale of their design, and that is the big advantage 3D printing has over other manufacturing. One thing I can guarantee when a new design is made available is that someone will ask for it in a different scale. I get less of that these days, as I try to start with a range of scales, but some of my older designs are done in fewer scales, and I do get asked, and as I don't have to get a sample I can afford to offer my designs in new scales.

As modellers we should be able to finish off models. It just takes a bit of time and patience. I remember doing some wood carving a school as an exercise. It was a long slow process, and I don't think I actually finished the thing I was making , but then I was not that interested, but if it had been something I really wanted then I might have finished it.

WSF plastic(nylon) is very tough. That is why many find it difficult to smooth, but using the right tool as I have suggested on many occasions, and it can be smoothed down. I am hapy to show others how it can be done, it is not that complicated. Rather than endless demos at exhibitions on traditional techniques something on how to use 3D printed models.

One thing I can also guarantee is that there probably would not be many models offered  for British HO, if a sample had to be produced first.

[47137]

8 hours ago, rue_d_etropal said:

...

One thing I can also guarantee is that there probably would not be many models offered  for British HO, if a sample had to be produced first.

 

I suppose, if you were to offer a relatively popular but low-cost item on Shapeways, we could compare notes with the different batches we bought.

 

For this, i.materialise would look like a poor choice because of their minimum order charge (£25 +VAT).

 

Not wanting to lead you astray of course, but I reckon Commonwealth bogies for Mk1 coaches (at least, bogie sides for a fold-up chassis) could enhance many British H0 layouts. I could post you a Trix bogie if this would help; they are sadly just that bit too big to put under a 1:87 model.

 

- Richard.

[rue_d_etropal]

I have done some bogies , the Gresley ones. There are so many different ones, it is easier to only do ones if asked, and I prefer towork from drawings if possible. I have also wondered if maybe what is required is a basic bogie block, and bogie sides could be fitted, not necessaily 3D printed. The main issue with bogies is that they have to run properly. Luckily metal wheels add some weight. Experience with Ratio plastic bogies makes me wary of developing 3D printed bogies, especially as I already have enough to work on. One big advantage of the WSF(nylon) plastic is that it is self lubricating, so a bogie block running on axles will run as well as axleboxes. It will need running in, but after a few circuits it should be fine. I had thought of doing something similar foe non bogie wagons and coaches.

My philosophy is that I tend to view models (smaller scales such as OO/HO and smaller) , from above so bogie and underframe detail is less important, and can be added if anyone is bothered. I am offering something to get someone starte, not a complete package/kit. One editor described 3D printing as an 'aid to scratchbuilding'. He might not have meant it, but I have taken it that is can jump start people into creating models, not having to worry how to start, and having the satisfaction of finishing something that works. I have seen far too many badly finished kit and scratchbuilds(some mine) to realise not everyone is a skilled model builder and needs something to help them, but retain the satisfaction of ctually building something.

It is one reason why it appears I am always having a dig at finescale modellers, but I would rather have something (even if it is not perfect) than nothing.

Had not realised i.materialise had a £25 minimum price for orderd. That is the reality of running a sustainable business. I still don't understand why they insist every model should have a sample print before it goes on sale. File storage database) is dirt cheap. It is setting up the software and maintaining it that costs the time and money, and that is the same for small and big systems.

Shapeways have modified their system over the years. It is far better that it used to be, and easier to upload and modify designs. Some ideas I have suggestedhave been taken on board, but probaby others actually suggested same ideas. They still have a big problem in way database is structured, but I would rather have that than have them try to fix it and break it. It is main reason I have my own website, which shows my designs in a way I want them. I even use it to help with design maintenance. 

Edited February 3, 2020 by rue_d_etropal

[47137]

5 hours ago, rue_d_etropal said:

...

Had not realised i.materialise had a £25 minimum price for orderd. That is the reality of running a sustainable business. I still don't understand why they insist every model should have a sample print before it goes on sale. File storage database) is dirt cheap. It is setting up the software and maintaining it that costs the time and money, and that is the same for small and big systems.

Shapeways have modified their system over the years. It is far better that it used to be, and easier to upload and modify designs. Some ideas I have suggestedhave been taken on board, but probaby others actually suggested same ideas. They still have a big problem in way database is structured, but I would rather have that than have them try to fix it and break it. It is main reason I have my own website, which shows my designs in a way I want them. I even use it to help with design maintenance. 

 

Aside from the database admin, a test print should protect customers from poor designs. Nothing can go too wrong with a boiler backhead, but a complete loco body shell needs to have some structural integrity.

 

The best prints I've had were from CW Railways, about five years ago before the founder sold the business (I haven't ordered from them since). He had his own printer, and thus he could do his own quality control. One of his tank locos I have looks much like an injection moulding, with sharp detail and not needing significant rubbing down or filler. Some Shapeways productions are more like looking at a photograph taken out of focus.

 

If the designer prints their own designs, the customer has some comeback if the design or production still turns out to be rubbish. This sounds like a better business model to me.

 

- Richard.

[rue_d_etropal]

Shapeways used to set prints to OK once they had printed once, but found that even if a print is perfect on one occasion, it can still fail in the future. The only way to do quality control is to check every print is OK and this is what Shapeways do now. Their software checks for main problems(thin walls), and their engineers/operators check for potential problems the software cannnot pick up(eg thin wires). If they find a problem, they used to just reject it, now they put it on hold, contact the designer who then has 7 days to fix the problem. Even that can vary, depending on which engineer/operator is processing your order.

Anyone who has ever tried to run a small business will know that it is very dfficult to take breaks, holiday or be sick. Having to manufacture, and then post items is not easy. I found just parcelling up and posting stuff on eBay was hard work. If you manufacture first , then you need to spend a lot of time and money on creating enough stock.

Now 3D printing is not a fast process. On any home based printer you are unlikely to be able to print enough models to make it worthwhile. Chris Ward said this. His main business was prototyping and I got the fealing the CW stuff was more for interest. I don't think the chap who bought the business has done much with it. I think it sits alongside an existing business.

Before I decided on Shapeways, I had observed how others producing models(not 3D printing) were doing, and the problems they had.

And then there is selling outside UK, something that might now get more difficult. Fine if you have a big enough company employing people to do all those time consuming jobs, but when you are on your own, I think it is a no go.

[whart57]

On 01/02/2020 at 12:31, 47137 said:

On the first occasion, the model was the wrong scale. The designer disagreed with me, and I still had to pay Shapeways.

 

 

On the Shapeways site the overall dimensions of the item are given. Worth comparing that to what it should be

[rue_d_etropal]

It is also possible to look at items from all sides using the 3D tool. Unfortunately I don't think it works with all systems , in particular mobile devises. It is a very powerful tool and if you line it up properly you can do screen shots to check it it fits .

I think a lot of people i the hobby don't undestand difference between OO and HO. In fact I think quite a few don't understand 'scale' .Not helped when companies still use the term OO/HO or HO/OO on their products.

Edited February 4, 2020 by rue_d_etropal

[Andy Reichert]

22 hours ago, rue_d_etropal said:

SNIP

Anyone who has ever tried to run a small business will know that it is very dfficult to take breaks, holiday or be sick. Having to manufacture, and then post items is not easy. I found just parcelling up and posting stuff on eBay was hard work. If you manufacture first , then you need to spend a lot of time and money on creating enough stock.

Now 3D printing is not a fast process. On any home based printer you are unlikely to be able to print enough models to make it worthwhile. Chris Ward said this. His main business was prototyping and I got the fealing the CW stuff was more for interest. I don't think the chap who bought the business has done much with it. I think it sits alongside an existing business.

Before I decided on Shapeways, I had observed how others producing models(not 3D printing) were doing, and the problems they had.

And then there is selling outside UK, something that might now get more difficult. Fine if you have a big enough company employing people to do all those time consuming jobs, but when you are on your own, I think it is a no go.

 

I've been running the Proto:87 SIG Stores on my own for the past 25 years.  I've always felt it necessary to test build every design to make sure someone else can make it easily without coming to me for customer support. That also means I have something to photograph for the website and nowadays of course, I can produce building and running videos to show how well things work.

 

The key in my case is to make my own tooling and use my own manufacturing techniques that are still low cost up front and per unit, regardless of volume.  And, as Simon says, make items, like my bogies,  that have mostly  common parts that then  take on the many variations as separate cosmetic items. So far I only have 3 types of bogie centers for all the various sizes and types.

 

Andy

[Andy Reichert]

5 minutes ago, rue_d_etropal said:

It is also possible to look at items from all sides using the 3D tool. Unfortunately I don't think it works with all systems , in particular mobile devises. It is a very powerful tool and if you line it up properly you can do screen shots to check it it fits .

I think a lot of people i the hobby don't undestand difference between OO and HO. In fact I think quite a few don't understand 'scale' .Not helped when companies still use the term OO/HO or HO/OO on their products.

 

Hornby recently switched from "00 Gauge" to "00 Scale".  What seems to be a much worse world wide problem is people not understanding wheel and track "standards" and altering them willy-nilly.

 

Andy