Dismantling an old layout

[dbanbery]

Morning guys/girls!

 

ive recently started to look at dismantling my grandads old layout and salvaging what I can for when am able to build my own layout. What I would like to discuss is the best way for removing the track so they can be used again. I know this may have been discussed before, but the track seems reasonably salvageable despite it being there for 30 years. It has not been bedded in medium and simply tacked on to the wooden boards of the deck and the joints/fishplates soldered. A lot of it is peco flexi and the points are controlled with push/pull cables. Is it feasible to unsolder the joints and carefully pry the tacks up? Or is it likely to render the track useless? The only tool I have found that might be of use would be an In situ track cutter tool - would people advise anything else? Is it a fools errand to try and desolder track?

 

i have attached pics of the layout. Please bear in mind this was made 30-40 years ago out of whatever my grandad could find for scenery - a lot of it being made from scratch. A lot of the scenery buildings are simply placed in weak glue and will remove. I’m not going to try and salvage the deck or table structure - just the track, as much scenery as possible and the power setup (although DCC would be easier in the future)

 

please comment on anything you see fit, there may be some silly questions but I don’t come here often and I don’t have space to set up a layout yet!

[Ray H]

At least you could be spared the need to remove droppers from each rail length which is what you might find with a dcc layout. You are unlikely to find this with a dc layout of the suggested vintage.

 

I use an old pair of track cutters - long since unable to perform their original cutting task - to remove track pins. A cheap pair of wire cutters should do the same. It looks as though the track is laid on foam underlay so you shouldn't have too much trouble getting the pins out.

 

You should also be able to locate the electrical track feed wires quite easily and can either unsolder in situ or cut and then unsolder away from the layout.

 

Soldered rail joiners could be more of a problem and might best be done with the assistance of a second pair of hands with one pair heating the solder and the other pair teasing the rail away from its neighbour whilst the solder is still hot. You may have to keep alternating each rail end at the same joint to avoid over-heating the rail and melting the sleepers.

 

However, before doing so I'd take a long and hard look at the state of the rails. They don't look too rusty so may be salvageable. You also need to check that the sleepers haven't degraded over time.

 

Can you start in a small area and see what you can retrieve and its condition before launching headlong into full scale retrieval only to find that very little can be reclaimed?

[Robert Stokes]

Another way to remove the pins is to put a small screwdriver under the end of a sleeper which has a pin and gently twist the screwdriver so that it slightly lifts it. If you then push the sleeper down again it may leave the pin head showing. You can then pull it out with pliers while holding down the sleeper. I have done this quite successfully to remove yards of track. You lose the odd one because the rail comes out of the chairs but it should work most of the time.

 

I should mention that I used this process on track which I had pinned down myself with pins at each end of a sleeper. It may not work so well with track pinned down with one pin in the middle of a sleeper.

 

Robert

[roythebus]

Maybe invest in a Dremel or similar with a slitting disc and cut the rails short of the soldered fishplates.

[dbanbery]

Cheers ray, I don’t think all of it is on foam if at all. It’s fixed directly onto the boards. The condition of the track seems ok - I think most of it is salvageable. 
 

I was going to test out a solder sucker to see if that would work in freeing the rails off. I don’t want to melt anything but I’m also thinking this will be old lead solderabd as such will be easier to melt than its modern counterpart. 
 

I do have a dremel.

 

i think the majority will be tacked down with one nail in the middle. I’ll have a look when I get over to the house again and do some testing.

[FoxUnpopuli]

I see some 1970s Hornby points among a few Peco items. 

 

I think Roy's on the right lines for separating the points out, Dremel the regular track either side of the point will allow you to remove it for desoldering on the bench.

 

I'm doing a lot of house renovation at the moment, I've been using decorators wallpaper scrapers for all sorts of uses they're not intended for.  One I keep sharpened with a chisel point and it's remarkably effective.  What we have is a nice large area to spread the load - another similar but less sturdy item would be a metal fish slice!

 

If the points aren't glued, and you have good access from the side (possibly made from methodical removal of everything else) then a tool like this might help.  The point should lift a little with a fingenail pull, just enough to insert the blade under.  Then you have a large lifting area to slide up to the side of the track pin and ease upwards.  As soon as enough of the head is free, you should be able to pull it with some fine nose pliers...  or you might use some fine top-cutting pliers (or possibly the Dremel) to snip the pin heads off - then lifting the points becomes almost trivial.

 

I'd be selective - those early Hornby units probably aren't worth saving!

[Ray H]

Solder wick might be worth a try. Its a copper braid that you put between the iron and the solder and the solder transfers to it although you may have to keep moving the wick along so you keep clean braid on the solder. I doubt you'll ever remove all the solder but you may weaken the joints enough to be able to pull the sections apart.

 

The slitting disc is a good idea. Where you cut may depend on how critical it is to retain the original length of track/points.You could always cut right on the join in the track which will remove a millimetre or so off each piece and that much at each end probably isn't worth worrying about.

 

I've also use the slitting disk to cut/abrade solder away but it does require a steady hand.

 

You'll obviously need a fresh supply of rail joiners to join it all together again. 

 

Good luck.

[dbanbery]

Yeah I thought of using those rail snips, but I’ve used the crenels cutters before on other stuff. Sounds like the way to go! Yes it’s a mix of bits - it appears to be nickel aside from some bits but I’ve not seen any rust - that’s not to say there wouldn’t be other surface corrosion. Maybe the sacrifice of a short length of track is acceptable to be able to remove it all. Scenery first I think when I run some trials. Someone (the house was previously rented) has done me a favour of destroying a length of track by pulling it off, and the sleepers are completely destroyed. So I feel care must be taken when it gets underway. My grandad used to work for British telecom and managed to get these consoles from when they were modernising the switch boards - which he used for the power switches and the points. 

[Il Grifone]

At worst, you can cut through the sleepers either side of the pin  and lift the track. There are too many sleepers anyway, so the loss of a few won't hurt.

I'd cut the soldered joints away as well. Sufficient heat to unsolder the joint with probably damage the sleepers, especially if the joiners were fitted properly (tightly) in the first place. A decent pair of side cutters is the answer here ( or a Xuron track cutter*).

Old steel track is likely a no-no, but BT switchgear will probably last for ever....

 

Take care with a slitting disc. They have a nasty habit of breaking up in use and the bits flying off. Googles and gloves!

 

*I've not used one myself, but they have good reports from people who have.

 

Edited January 21, 2020 by Il Grifone

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

On ‎19‎/‎01‎/‎2020 at 11:21, dbanbery said:

... I’ll have a look when I get over to the house again and do some testing.

Pragmatically, that's the way ahead. Try what has been suggested and ideas of your own to find what works best for this specific construction.

 

My particular suggestions.

Check around first with a magnet to locate any steel rail, I wouldn't bother with it.

Generally just cut off rail ends with soldered on joiners. It's only on the Peco points that I would bother with (careful) unsoldering 'reclamation' as these provide significant savings if reuseable.

[dbanbery]

Thank you for all these replies. I’ll order some new cutting discs and get cracking with that approach. I’ve done metalwork on cars and also had a go at building a mamod style steam engine out of copper and brass in the past so I’ve done a bit of metalworking before. Cutting is best it seems. Other hobbies centre around model building and warhammer so I have transferable skills. I’ve just finished a masters in architecture too so when I finally get on with the build I’ll be 3D printing and laser cutting using AutoCAD etc as per the architectural models I built :-)

 

let’s see how much of this layout I can save :-)

Edited January 21, 2020 by dbanbery

[DCB]

I find sliding a steel ruler under the track base and lifting gently will usually lift the track with the pins still in.     Be careful with the peco points, free the toe end first or they tend to snap where the tie bar passes through.   Streamline track can usually be salvaged, I tend to treat rails and sleeper bases as separate units. Sometimes the rails have solder blobs which cannot be unsoldered,  I cut the rails each side of the solder and slide the sleepers off the shorter side. Cut the sleeper base and pop out any damaged sleepers and push the rest up to close the gap, then thread on some more sleepers to fill the length up. I generally scrap any short lengths 9" or less, pull the rails out and save them and save the sleepers separately for repairing longer lengths.  Whether using DC or DCC its best to minimise the  number of rail joiners, making up lengths from lots of little bits is a good way to get poor running and of course it reduces the number of droppers needed if you wire every bit of track separately for DCC.

[dbanbery]

Good advice! Thank you for that. 
 

will have to see how things go - I’ve got a few tools to buy (who doesn’t love that?) and others to dig out. The layout isn’t local to where I live so I need plan my visits to be the most productive once it’s underway

[dbanbery]

Update:

 

its done. I’ve left the boards, 80% of the track has been saved. All scenery buildings are completely intact along with signals, telegraph poles etc. One part was on a board that I could just pick up all together as per pic in the end I didn’t bother with the dremel. As a flat scraper and a set of snips or pliers did the job nicely. Not a lot was soldered in the end 

[dbanbery]

Work in progress pics from yesterday. I was able to carefully remove most elements  as I went along without damaging them. Most of the little fences bit the dust as they were simply pins with the heads snipped off and thin wire/cord wrapped around them. There some sections on base plates that I was simply able to scrape off the boards with the scraper.  When I get round to it, a number of these items will be cleaned and “up cycled” getting extra detail etc to them - a lot has happened to scenery stuff in 30-40 years