Newhaven Marine to close

[DavidB-AU]

Various media outlets have reported the Newhaven Marine is to be legally closed. it is still legally "open" even though it has been closed to passengers since 2006. No mention of when the daily ghost train will cease running.

[hmrspaul]

Shameful loss of a really useful route into France; Newhaven to Dieppe was the quickest way to the south of France, saved having to drive around Paris etc. Didn't bother me so much after we moved north as I started using the French car trains - another loss I believe. The Chunnel has many advantages but Spain and southern France are a long drive from Calais in comparison with Dieppe.

 

Paul

Edited January 19, 2020 by hmrspaul

[Joseph_Pestell]

Just now, hmrspaul said:

Shameful loss of a really useful route into France; Newhaven to Dieppe was the quickest way to the south of France, saved having to drive around Paris etc. Didn't bother me so much after we moved north as I started using the French car trains - another loss I believe. The Chunnel has many advantages but Spain and southern France are a long drive from Clais in comparison with Dieppe.

 

Paul

 

A slightly different issue; legal closure of a station that has not seen any boat trains for many years as against closure of the ferry route itself.

 

All operators seem to have struggled to make this route viable, probably because the ships can not be big enough given the limited facilities at Newhaven. When I lived in the South East, it was my favourite route for getting to my parents' house in Southern France (nr Perpignan). Getting the ferry at about 22.30 from Newhaven, one would disembark at about 03.30 in Dieppe and get some serious mileage in (at rather high speeds) with no traffic on the roads. It was thus possible, even before the autoroute era to do the journey in one hit arriving early evening the next day.

 

I recall one crossing (circa 1976) with about 8 passengers on board. The steward actually came round and asked us if we would mind him closing the bar a bit early.

[John M Upton]

The parliamentary train has not stopped in Marine for some time now, the recent resignalling works which saw the up starter signal - effectively the only bit of the old station left - removed also saw the access locked off with a sleeper across the line and the Newhaven Harbour terminating services reversing via the Seaford single line instead.

 

Indeed there is nothing really left to close!!!  I reckon Newhaven Harbour could probably be dropped as well, you can't access the Harbour from there as its all fenced off, you have to alight at Newhaven Town for the ferry now (and oh boy does that cause confusion for the unwary!!) and the surrounding area of industrial dereliction is quite depressing.  Also the level crossing has now been taken out so there is no longer any same level access to the up platform, it's everyone over the footbridge now or shilly shally via Bishopstone.

Edited January 19, 2020 by John M Upton

[phil-b259]

9 hours ago, hmrspaul said:

Shameful loss of a really useful route into France; Newhaven to Dieppe was the quickest way to the south of France, saved having to drive around Paris etc. Didn't bother me so much after we moved north as I started using the French car trains - another loss I believe. The Chunnel has many advantages but Spain and southern France are a long drive from Calais in comparison with Dieppe.

 

Paul

 

The Ferry route is still going (mainly thanks to a big subsidy from the French Seine-Maritime department  that has been repeatedly renewed so as to avoid economic hardship) and has nothing to do with the closure of the Marine station.

 

In fact if you look on Google maps you will see that the actual ferry terminal has moved northwards and is now physically closer to Newhaven Town station thus rendering the other two stations rather pointless. Fortunately because the Harbour station is on the through route to Seaford it gets a reprieve even though there is no real need for it any more.

[Darius43]

I passed Newhaven Marine many times on the train to and from Seaford in the 1970s and 80s when visiting my Grandparents.  Oftentimes the “boat train” was standing in the Marine Station as we passed.  
 

Alas the days of dedicated boat trains are long gone.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

[number6]

Many times I dragged my feet on the walk back to Newhaven Harbour from Tidemills beach as a kid. Sunburnt and probably dragging a huge piece of driftwood we would miss the one train an hour home. Once all was well because after a few mins sitting around the up boat train which was fast to Vic pulls up in the platform, Uncle David shouts from the cab 'Need a lift?'. We bale out at Lewes hardly coming to a halt. Job done.

[Oldddudders]

Never visited the Marine station, but 50 years ago there would be a daily phonecall from Geoff Clasby, the SM, to Control, telling us the boat train had left right time. 

[woodenhead]

It's been a long time coming, Geoff Marshall did a video of the parliamentary train 8 years ago.

 

 

[Joseph_Pestell]

1 hour ago, Oldddudders said:

Never visited the Marine station, but 50 years ago there would be a daily phonecall from Geoff Clasby, the SM, to Control, telling us the boat train had left right time. 

 

That can't be right. Departure of the train must often have been delayed by late arrival of the ship.

 

I think that the official time for the crossing was 3h25 at one point which was rather optimistic in bad weather, especially with that old tub Falaise.

[Oldddudders]

I think it was 17.15. No doubt it varied with daily Channel perturbations. 

[The Stationmaster]

19 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

I think it was 17.15. No doubt it varied with daily Channel perturbations. 

Was the departure time a booked 'moveable feast' as happened with some other boat train times?

 

And surely anybody wanting to go to Spain or southern France with a vehicle nowadays would use one of the numerous routes operated by Brittany Ferries - there are routes to four different French ports from Portsmouth alone.

[Nearholmer]

How will anyone tell?

 

when I was a boy it was our ‘local’ ferry port, and sometimes the destination for seaside outings, so fond memories of school trips to our ‘twin towns etc.

 

I spent a fair bit of the ‘winter of discontent’ there too, working on a new transformer installation at the traction substation, and that was a very interesting time - everything was permanently frozen that winter!

 

I cycled through last summer, and my main impressions were of new house building, down by the western side of the harbour, and that the entire place had become somehow smaller, in the same way that infants’ school chairs do.

 

We always knew the station as ‘Newhaven Harbour Boat’, BTW, the boats at the time being Valencay, Villandry, and the tug Meeching.

[hmrspaul]

7 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

 

The Ferry route is still going (mainly thanks to a big subsidy from the French Seine-Maritime department  that has been repeatedly renewed so as to avoid economic hardship) and has nothing to do with the closure of the Marine station.

 

In fact if you look on Google maps you will see that the actual ferry terminal has moved northwards and is now physically closer to Newhaven Town station thus rendering the other two stations rather pointless. Fortunately because the Harbour station is on the through route to Seaford it gets a reprieve even though there is no real need for it any more.

Thank you. I wrongly assumed the ferry route had closed a long time ago. We are planning on driving to the Dordogne this spring/summer for the first time in a long time and will have to think about the various routes. From York there is a lot to be said for routes which avoid the M25; I found driving son to Uni in Southampton remarkably easy compared to getting into the London mess. Mind all the experiences are a few years ago and the whole of the South East seems to have ground to a standstill more recently - or it has whenever I've ventured that way driving.

 

Paul

[lmsforever]

Used Newhaven in the sixties and it was a good crossing  in 1962  we arrived back from  a cycling holiday around the French Spanish border expecting to ride home to Aylesbury.But our bikes were still in Paris  the wonderful people from BR said use the train and tell anyone who asks what happened .We did and went home free of charge our bikes arrived in Aylesbury four days later with a note of apology attached ,now that's service .

[Siberian Snooper]

Used Newhaven and the Vilandry on four occasions '66 '67 '68 and '73. The highlight was the '68 school trip to Paris by special trains from Horsham, with a reversal at Three Bridges to Newhaven and from Dieppe to Paris. The most memorable part was the Sorbonne students rioting outside our boarding school! The French riot police didn't mess around, like ours do, whether it was our shouting and cheering out of the windows or not having some effect I don't know,  but I'm glad I wasn't on the street.

 

 

[Oldddudders]

2 hours ago, hmrspaul said:

Thank you. I wrongly assumed the ferry route had closed a long time ago. We are planning on driving to the Dordogne this spring/summer for the first time in a long time and will have to think about the various routes. From York there is a lot to be said for routes which avoid the M25; I found driving son to Uni in Southampton remarkably easy compared to getting into the London mess. Mind all the experiences are a few years ago and the whole of the South East seems to have ground to a standstill more recently - or it has whenever I've ventured that way driving.

 

Paul

If you found Southampton easy, then I commend neighbouring Portsmouth. The ferry to Caen (actually the port of Ouistreham) will drop you in France two hours from Le Mans, less than three from Tours. Dual carriageway and then Autoroute (A88, A28) from not long after leaving the port. 

[Joseph_Pestell]

14 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

If you found Southampton easy, then I commend neighbouring Portsmouth. The ferry to Caen (actually the port of Ouistreham) will drop you in France two hours from Le Mans, less than three from Tours. Dual carriageway and then Autoroute (A88, A28) from not long after leaving the port. 

 

To get to the Dordogne, Portsmouth - Ouistreham is definitely a good option from York. Only major delay likely to be where the A34 joins the M3 at Winchester.

 

The overnight boat docks at about 07.30 and gives a decent night's sleep. Can be a bit of a slog to get round the Caen ring road in the rush hour but other than that, a good clear run to the Dordogne - about six hours taking it easy.

[phil_sutters]

The photo from 2013 shows the station as it was for many years.The Seaford 150 was when it provided a meeting place for 70013 and the ESFRS water bowser from which its tender tank was refilled. The 2017 shot has one of the two regular ferries serving the route to Dieppe - MV Seven Sisters. The other is Cote de Albatre (I still don't know how to apply accents). This is how it still looks on a good day. The Marine signal box has just been decommissioned along with the Town crossing box. To the east of the Marine site more industrial development is under way including a new road bridge, spanning both the railway line to Bishopstone and Seaford and the creek which used to power the Tidemills. 

[Mike Buckner]

43 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

Can be a bit of a slog to get round the Caen ring road in the rush hour but other than that, a good clear run to the Dordogne - about six hours taking it easy.

 

The Caen ring road has a confusing signpost shortly before one of the exits, showing a left and a right fork. One is signposted "Toutes Directions". The other is signposted "Autres Directions". 

[eastwestdivide]

Official notification with background and maps etc here:

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/newhaven-marine-rail-station-closure/newhaven-marine-station-closure

[Joseph_Pestell]

34 minutes ago, Mike Buckner said:

 

The Caen ring road has a confusing signpost shortly before one of the exits, showing a left and a right fork. One is signposted "Toutes Directions". The other is signposted "Autres Directions". 

 

There is (or was) a junction like that in Le Mans as well.

[phil_sutters]

2 hours ago, Mike Buckner said:

 

The Caen ring road has a confusing signpost shortly before one of the exits, showing a left and a right fork. One is signposted "Toutes Directions". The other is signposted "Autres Directions". 

It's not just the French who try to confuse one. Here is a sign from Bromley, south east of London. As the rest of the locations seem to be religious in nature, I wonder if they felt the need to be 'inclusive' and not forget other religions or beliefs!

[hmrspaul]

7 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

To get to the Dordogne, Portsmouth - Ouistreham is definitely a good option from York. Only major delay likely to be where the A34 joins the M3 at Winchester.

 

The overnight boat docks at about 07.30 and gives a decent night's sleep. Can be a bit of a slog to get round the Caen ring road in the rush hour but other than that, a good clear run to the Dordogne - about six hours taking it easy.

Apologies for taking this too far off topic.

 

And thank you for the advice. I used to know all this, driving at least annually into Europe for many years. I used the Caen route at least once. I liked the Hovercraft when venturing further east to Italy etc. As mentioned the last years used the train - so long ago I think the final time was Bologna to Calais on the longest train I had seen - 17 coaches and 27 car carriers (how could this not pay) which arrived, late, in Calais to learn that Princess Di had been killed just before we went around Paris.

Then although a Platinum card holder on Eurostar in retirement recently my voyaging has been far more distant and I am out of touch with the ways of entry into Europe, with or without a visa.

 

Paul

[number6]

Can't talk about Newhaven Marine without mentioning these: I'm a big fan of the boat trains when the three Bulleid electrics worked them. Can't share many of the images I've collected over the years for my own use but these are typical. Thanks to all those who took and shared them. The Charlie Verrall images are especially good - with lots of gen in the comments on Flickr as he was at the district managers office on the central section.

 

 

 

Most trains in the 50s had a pair of cycle vans at the London end. Full I would imagine with nice touring bikes on their way to and from cycle holidays in France - uniform of the rider just a cardigan and tie with everything else in a modest saddle bag... and that would be the women too. Nearly all trains had a Maunsell 'non-descript' brake or ex-SECR continental brake at each end until quite late into the 1960s.

 

The stock was an early repaint into new British Rail colours. For a time even plum and split milk. A bit of 1950s bling through the gloom.

 

I'm not entirely convinced this final one is the normal boat - because of the all first and pullmans obviously borrowed off the western section for a day trip to Newhaven.

 

Edited January 21, 2020 by number6