Swifty11 Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 (edited) Ron Hull of Rotherham has commenced disposing of ex DB Cargo 60006 at Toton, the first of the class to meet its end... 60086 has also been sold to the firm with 60050 sold to Raxtar, also likely for scrap. Edit: WNXX reporting 60098 has been resold... These photos are from Flickr, the photostream can be found here or by clicking on the pictures. 60006 60006 On a happier note, 60081 will survive with LSL. It will be cosmetically restored and eventually displayed at the Margate site. Edited January 21, 2020 by Swifty11 2 6 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithlington smithe Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 On WNXX today - ‘Ron Hull also purchased 60086 (WQDA) at Toton but this one is understood to have been the subject of re-sale negotiations so may survive‘ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted January 21, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 21, 2020 It kinda seems a shame, but nearly 30 years is longer than many of the original pilot scheme diesels managed, having fallen well short of their designed performance, and been discarded early. At least a 60 on song was a useful asset. 2 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 This DBs idea of an extra heavy general repair - reduce it down to components and put them back together but not necessarily in the same order or the same shape. According to gen, this loco is to be used for transporting beans with it's next owner Heinz, Gillette having apparently turned DB down. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allegheny1600 Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 It was a lovely warm day sometime in August 1989 when a friend and I did some cycling through Mickleover and came upon the still intact test track. Listening, we could hear something coming and after a while, 60 001 appeared looking so modern and sounding wonderful, quiet but clearly powerful. Seeing the pictures above makes me feel much older and sadder than I was a few moments ago! 4 8 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_60 This article lacks an assessment of the strengths/weaknesses of the class. Would anybody oblige, please. Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithlington smithe Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 17 minutes ago, PenrithBeacon said: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_60 This article lacks an assessment of the strengths/weaknesses of the class. Would anybody oblige, please. Cheers https://www.railmagazine.com/trains/current-trains/the-resurgent-60s this article is from 2013 but a gives a good insight on the 60’s 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold pheaton Posted January 21, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 21, 2020 Overwhelmingly complicated electrical systems.... And specialist tooling required for any engine work... Particularly when changing cylinder heads. I did hear of some talk that the engine flywheel was prone to cracking, but im not sure how true that is, but it was given as an explanation as to why so many are sidelined. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
APOLLO Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 6 minutes ago, pheaton said: Overwhelmingly complicated electrical systems.... And specialist tooling required for any engine work... Particularly when changing cylinder heads. I did hear of some talk that the engine flywheel was prone to cracking, but im not sure how true that is, but it was given as an explanation as to why so many are sidelined. Did BMW build them ? Brit15 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted January 21, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 21, 2020 Neither of the sources quoted above makes much mention of the head-bolt issue. ISTR there was a facility set up at Whitemoor in the early days to replace these, as they were being popped at an alarming rate. As a non-engineer, I nevertheless see how 8 big cylinders might impose more strain than 16 smaller ones for the same displacement. There will always be a risk of trade-off if you simplify by reducing the number of components and make each work a little harder. The articles make it clear the prime-mover was a successful marine powerplant. Marine installations typically run at fixed rpm for extended periods. Locomotives do not offer such a steady operation, but vary the rev range considerably on every trip. I think the US diesel market had grappled with the same problem several decades before, when Fairbanks Morse prime movers, popular in marine installations, became locomotive engines. I think it was a Bank Holiday weekend when the crunch decision to accept the 60 fleet was required. Had BR declined to do so, certain company share prices would have fallen on the following Tuesday. You might imagine the decision would have been taken at BR Board Member level, but in fact it was left to the Project Director, a decent and highly experienced rolling stock man only a couple of grades higher than I was. Those who revere the BR era might pause to think of the strain imposed upon some employees in those days. 1 11 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 3 minutes ago, APOLLO said: Did BMW build them ? Brit15 No, because they would have been fitted with redundant parts like indicators if they had. 12 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted January 21, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 21, 2020 A shame that 60050 is likely to get scrapped that was thornabys pet 60, not sure what name it was supposed to have but it got changed to roseberry topping a conical hill near Great ayton Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 Wasn't 60006 the one named for Scunny Works? Strange it's the first to go, with the works still teetering. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
seraphim Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 I think that the fundamental problem with Class 60 was the engine overhaul costs. Mirlees pulled a flanker on BRB/Brush with an irresistably low first-purchase bid. BRB was very prone to assessing offers solely on up-front cost rather than whole-life cost, and Class 60 was no exception. The inevitable consequence is that engine overhauls get deferred and deferred and eventually the laws of physics assert themselves and things start to go bang in a very big way. Electrically, a very complex loco, one of the first truly micro-processor controlled locos. When it worked, happy days. When it didn't..... The 60mph max speed must have been very limiting in terms of jobs they could do (I don't have data on this...and being fair, many bulks-load wagons are also 60mph). Unbeatable tractive effort, as was demonstrated when I was part of the test train crew in Mickleover when Allegeheny1600 cycled past. As the trainee, my main job was to go to Tesco at lunch time for choc ices... 7 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
maico Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 (edited) In the meantime this German diesel loco had a service life of over 50 years 1962-2016 http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fde.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FHenschel_DH_4000 Edited January 21, 2020 by maico 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
37114 Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 On 20/01/2020 at 19:04, Swifty11 said: On a happier note, 60081 will survive with LSL. It will be cosmetically restored and eventually displayed at the Margate site. This was another one that went bang big time, unless it gets a new engine and a load of other bits it wont be a runner.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
royaloak Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 4 minutes ago, 37114 said: This was another one that went bang big time, unless it gets a new engine and a load of other bits it wont be a runner.. I would put it out of its misery, the thing is knackered, stripped and beyond repair. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 13 minutes ago, maico said: In the meantime this German diesel loco had a service life of over 50 years 1962-2016 http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fde.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FHenschel_DH_4000 Diesel Hydraulic, I notice. Makes you wonder just how long the WR Hydraulics could've kept going with decent support. In 1989 my interest in UK trains was well on the wane; I recall someone asking when I was going to buy a new Lima Class 60? By that time I wouldn't even spit on a Lima (or Hornby) diesel, they were inferior in so many ways to US model locos, & 60s far too 'modern' for me anyway. Seeing them being scrapped makes me feel old, too!!! 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swifty11 Posted January 21, 2020 Author Share Posted January 21, 2020 (edited) 52 minutes ago, 37114 said: This was another one that went bang big time, unless it gets a new engine and a load of other bits it wont be a runner.. It won't be a runner and it's extremely unlikely it ever will be again. It's only been saved to be an exhibit at Margate and it'll be a cosmetic restoration only, similar to that of parts donor 47841. At least it will be saved, even though it'll be on a plinth. Another shot from flickr shows it shortly after its 'leg out of bed' at Chester. 60081 "Isambard Kingdom Brunel" 6L55 Chester failure 050403 by jim40135, on Flickr Edited January 21, 2020 by Swifty11 Photo added. 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
black and decker boy Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 1 hour ago, russ p said: A shame that 60050 is likely to get scrapped that was thornabys pet 60, not sure what name it was supposed to have but it got changed to roseberry topping a conical hill near Great ayton Roseberry Topping was the birth of the Teesside steel industry, being the early source of iron ore. Or so I was told in Uni geology field trips to the area 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold pheaton Posted January 21, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 21, 2020 1 hour ago, F-UnitMad said: Diesel Hydraulic, I notice. Makes you wonder just how long the WR Hydraulics could've kept going with decent support. In 1989 my interest in UK trains was well on the wane; I recall someone asking when I was going to buy a new Lima Class 60? By that time I wouldn't even spit on a Lima (or Hornby) diesel, they were inferior in so many ways to US model locos, & 60s far too 'modern' for me anyway. Seeing them being scrapped makes me feel old, too!!! There was an interesting article in Traction a number of years ago which said basically the 56 order could have been halved if...they had kept a number of the air braked class 52s in service, which had superior starting tractive effort... however In practice the license built transmissions and power units didn't live up to the quality that the Germans could manufacture the same items to. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithlington smithe Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 A snippet from a Rail Magazine article in reference to the super 60 programme ‘ In early 2009, then Chief Executive Keith Heller told RAIL 611 that all the locomotives would be stored, due to a 20% downturn in traffic. The lowest point came on December 7 2009, when only four ‘60s’ were left in service. However, they were never all stored - they were just too valuable to the business because of their haulage capabilities compared with the newer Class 66s. And behind the scenes, Heller was planning for the future of the big Type 5s. His successor Thauvette continued that planning process, appreciating the locomotives’ capabilities. DB recognised the asset it had on its hands, and set about ways of improving it. Rumours abounded that the ‘60s’ would be fitted with new engines, but that never occurred. Nevertheless, the core fleet in use was getting long in the tooth, and something needed to be done. It is also worth noting that no major works visit had been carried out on the Class 60s since their introduction. Just over a decade ago they had undergone major exams, but they had never visited a works facility for a complete rebuild (as other British Rail fleets had done). And so the ‘Super 60’ project was born. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LBRJ Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 4 hours ago, Allegheny1600 said: It was a lovely warm day sometime in August 1989 when a friend and I did some cycling through Mickleover and came upon the still intact test track. Listening, we could hear something coming and after a while, 60 001 appeared looking so modern and sounding wonderful, quiet but clearly powerful. Seeing the pictures above makes me feel much older and sadder than I was a few moments ago! That is almost word for word what I was going to write except I was at Bamford station looking up some train times, for future jollies. I wasn't really that much into modern trains anymore at the time, but this large quiet(ish) grey thing kinda got me interested in what was "out there now" all over again! 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
great central Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 Still quite impressive pulling away from Nottingham after a driver change, getting a long train of TEAs on the move again. There's often one about the time I get to work, once the loco is away the wagons slip almost silently past. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob D2 Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 It seems really strange to see something with a website address on its side getting scrapped ! its odd what you remember - I clearly recall when me and the wife brought our first brand new house having all my Lima 60s out in the kitchen ( including 2x 60081 in green ), must have been early 2001 when they were still in big demand. Im sure EWS would have binned them all if they could, as nothing could match the 66 availability . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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