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They're of the era when I was just getting into the real railway scene (as opposed to TTTE and miniature railways in the park). I didn't see them often, but the fact that they were essentially brand new was very exciting.

 

Apparently the procurement spec was supposed to result in the purchase of a load of 59s, but somehow they ended up with these instead...

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On 21/01/2020 at 21:01, F-UnitMad said:

Diesel Hydraulic, I notice. ;)

 

Makes you wonder just how long the WR Hydraulics could've kept going with decent support.

 

In 1989 my interest in UK trains was well on the wane; I recall someone asking when I was going to buy a new Lima Class 60? By that time I wouldn't even spit on a Lima (or Hornby) diesel, they were inferior in so many ways to US model locos, & 60s far too 'modern' for me anyway. Seeing them being scrapped makes me feel old, too!!! :rolleyes:

 

I think the WR hydraulics would still have been in service longer like the 1956 V200 they were based on, and which a few are still trundling around outside Germany.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DB_Class_V_200

38212095505_dfde6a14d1_b.jpg

v200049e.jpg

Edited by maico
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The thing that always struck me as odd with the 60s was the little cut-out in the cab front for the brake pipe cock.

Almost like the layout of everything was finalised but it wasn't until they were built that they realised 'oops, we can't shut the cock properly because the cab's in the way!'

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On 21/01/2020 at 20:40, maico said:

In the meantime this German diesel loco had a service life of over 50 years 1962-2016

 

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fde.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FHenschel_DH_4000

 

232_001_080573_cuh.jpg

I think there are British 08s and 20s that can beat that comfortably.  The continued survival of the 20s is amazing considering their obvious design flaw.  "Let's build a diesel engine that steam tank drivers will appreciate!".

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13 hours ago, Zomboid said:

Apparently the procurement spec was supposed to result in the purchase of a load of 59s, but somehow they ended up with these instead...

 

That was good old fashioned politics at work.  The press would have gone mental back in the day if the UK Goverment had sanctioned the purchase by BR of US manufactured locos over British built ones, still the US got there in the end with the 66 family!!!

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9 hours ago, rogerzilla said:

I think there are British 08s and 20s that can beat that comfortably.  The continued survival of the 20s is amazing considering their obvious design flaw.  "Let's build a diesel engine that steam tank drivers will appreciate!".

Loads of other places persisted with the single cab design for much longer. And whilst they're better known for 13 loco consists, the Americans still run them as single units (including long hood forward) on local and shortline services.

 

Plenty of pre 1960 locos still in use over there too.

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11 hours ago, John M Upton said:

 

That was good old fashioned politics at work.  The press would have gone mental back in the day if the UK Goverment had sanctioned the purchase by BR of US manufactured locos over British built ones, still the US got there in the end with the 66 family!!!

The Class 59 design would have been built here as a joint venture with GEC so they would have still been British built (much like the Hitachi 800 family). The trouble was the Class 59 didn't fit the Railfreight specification that had been produced on the basis of what the Class 59 could do. Brush's submission did.

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4 hours ago, Zomboid said:

Loads of other places persisted with the single cab design for much longer. And whilst they're better known for 13 loco consists, the Americans still run them as single units (including long hood forward) on local and shortline services.

 

Plenty of pre 1960 locos still in use over there too.

 

Australia still seems to favour the single cab design too, whether US built for the mining in the NW or domestic build - to a somewhat smaller loading gauge - for the national networks (broad, standard, and narrow gauge). Often working in pairs (or threes), but plenty of single unit formations around on more local work. There are dual cab units around too, but are in the minority.

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I'm 35, and feel old seeing the Pacers, Intercity 225's and now 60's going for store and scrap.  All these trains which, when I was growing up in the late 80's and early 90's the Hornby catalogues and the like were crowing about as the bright new future for Britain's railways...  At least I still get to see a fairly regular 60 turn, on the Gypsum workings from the Settle-Carlisle, makes a nice change from yet more Sheds.  I wonder which heritage railway will be first to save a 60?

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10 minutes ago, Ben B said:

......I wonder which heritage railway will be first to save a 60?


Without knowing anything about the cost of restoring and keeping such machines in working, running order; I suspect it would cost a fortune to keep a 60 going.

As the last British made, mainline diesel loco, is the national museum getting one?

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Quote

As the last British made, mainline diesel loco, is the national museum getting one?

 

Surely they must be... assuming the National Railway Museum (sorry, I mean just Railway Museum... or Railway Building... or Teh Train Place... or York Central Retail And Housing Estate With Weird Building Full Of Machines At The End or whatever the hell they'll call themselves in ten years) still bother with preserving actual, real locomotives.  There's probably an exposed siding at Shildon they can park one as an exhibit on paint schemes through the ages as each coat weathers off ;) 

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On 21/01/2020 at 21:58, black and decker boy said:

Roseberry Topping was the birth of the Teesside steel industry, being the early source of iron ore.

 

Or so I was told in Uni geology field trips to the area

 

Iron ore was first found on Teesside in Eston hills a few miles to the north  but was later mined under roseberry from the south side of it with a 3ft gauge railway linking it to the NER north of great ayton station 

The hill itself qualified as a mountain at just over 1000feet  but mining subsistence has reduced it to under a 1000 so is only now a hill

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5 hours ago, Ben B said:

 

Surely they must be... assuming the National Railway Museum (sorry, I mean just Railway Museum... or Railway Building... or Teh Train Place... or York Central Retail And Housing Estate With Weird Building Full Of Machines At The End or whatever the hell they'll call themselves in ten years) still bother with preserving actual, real locomotives.  There's probably an exposed siding at Shildon they can park one as an exhibit on paint schemes through the ages as each coat weathers off ;) 

I seem to recall 60100 has been designated for preservation, doesn't mean it will definitely end up in the NRM though. 

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1 hour ago, 37114 said:

I seem to recall 60100 has been designated for preservation, doesn't mean it will definitely end up in the NRM though. 

It was definitely on the list when I last looked

 

Jack

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One of the big issues was the main crank failing which was the route cause of the catastrophic failure of 60081 (and I think 008/011 also let go along with a few others), an Issue which was resolved with the DB and subsequent overhauls. 

 

Having been involved in putting 60's on (and removing them from!) many flows over the years I have to say its always been interesting to see what they can achieve and particularly against a 59. LBT - Fiddlers for example capped out at 19 HTA's with a 66 and 23 with either a 59 or 60, however when the LBT trains ran to Ratcliffe the loadings for a 59 maxed out at 22 over Caverswall bank, but the 60's we're fine. 

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On 23/01/2020 at 12:39, Ben B said:

I'm 35, and feel old seeing the Pacers, Intercity 225's and now 60's going for store and scrap.  All these trains which, when I was growing up in the late 80's and early 90's the Hornby catalogues and the like were crowing about as the bright new future for Britain's railways...  At least I still get to see a fairly regular 60 turn, on the Gypsum workings from the Settle-Carlisle, makes a nice change from yet more Sheds.  I wonder which heritage railway will be first to save a 60?

Your feeling old, the cl60 was the last proper engine I was passed out on 22nd June 1991. I think it was 60100, we did a run from Manchester to Burscough light engine . As the construction sector had been using tired 47/4's for the Dean Lane/Agecroft dusty bins upto that point, a cl60 was the replacement. We also started to run out to Springs Branch once or twice aweek for engine checks as that was regarded as their homebase.

My traction card, prior to 1987 I'd been driving on the SR for just oveer 4 years.

 

My Traction Card

 

Edited by w124bob
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Amazed that a card that old was still in use in 1987!

Had they run out of more recent ones or had they just never been updated?

A candidate for the 'Ghosts in the machine' thread too.

 

Edited by keefer
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On 23/01/2020 at 12:39, Ben B said:

I'm 35, and feel old seeing the Pacers, Intercity 225's and now 60's going for store and scrap.


I’m now 60 and remember HST’s being introduced and now I see that the first HST Mk3’s have now been dispatched from Tyne Yard to Sims Metals in Newport for scrap :(

Edited by jools1959

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The new MTU engines in HSTs had a shorter service life than the smoky Paxman Valentas originally fitted.  I imagine the engines will see some re-use, though.

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13 hours ago, w124bob said:

Your feeling old, the cl60 was the last proper engine I was passed out on 22nd June 1991. I think it was 60100, we did a run from Manchester to Burscough light engine . As the construction sector had been using tired 47/4's for the Dean Lane/Agecroft dusty bins upto that point, a cl60 was the replacement. We also started to run out to Springs Branch once or twice aweek for engine checks as that was regarded as their homebase.

My traction card, prior to 1987 I'd been driving on the SR for just oveer 4 years.

 

My Traction Card

 

That traction card is amazing,  still got Clayton's and metrovics on in 87. Ours were blank and traction types were written in .

Love the way your inspector calls all second gen units railbuses! 

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1 hour ago, russ p said:

That traction card is amazing,  still got Clayton's and metrovics on in 87. Ours were blank and traction types were written in .

Love the way your inspector calls all second gen units railbuses! 

One of the things about Man Vic back then that I loved was the character of the place, from the trains, the architecture, the people to the way of doing things. I suspect that type of traction card was used simply because that is what was in the gaffers draw. 

My memories of 60's were, good engines to get a kip on, but difficult to shunt with. The return dusty bins required some very precise wagon placing at Agecroft for the runround move because of some stupid way the TC's were arranged , really a 60 was power over kill . The route was not arduous from Agecroft to Appley Bridge , the climb from Lostock junction to Weshoughton being the steepest. With the climb from a slow or standing start up out of Wigan Wallgate being done empty.

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4 hours ago, rogerzilla said:

The new MTU engines in HSTs had a shorter service life than the smoky Paxman Valentas originally fitted.  I imagine the engines will see some re-use, though.

Other than accident victims how many MTU power cars have been withdrawn?

Most are either still in use with XC, GWR or ScotRail or have been put in temporary storage! 

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On ‎21‎/‎01‎/‎2020 at 20:36, seraphim said:

I think that the fundamental problem with Class 60 was the engine overhaul costs. Mirlees pulled a flanker on BRB/Brush with an irresistably low first-purchase bid. BRB was very prone to assessing offers solely on up-front cost rather than whole-life cost, and Class 60 was no exception. The inevitable consequence is that engine overhauls get deferred and deferred and eventually the laws of physics assert themselves and things start to go bang in a very big way.

 

Electrically, a very complex loco, one of the first truly micro-processor controlled locos. When it worked, happy days. When it didn't.....

 

The 60mph max speed must have been very limiting in terms of jobs they could do (I don't have data on this...and being fair, many bulks-load wagons are also 60mph).

 

Unbeatable tractive effort, as was demonstrated when I was part of the test train crew in Mickleover when Allegeheny1600 cycled past. As the trainee, my main job was to go to Tesco at lunch time for choc ices...

 

 

I thought that the 60s were bought on a whole-life cost basis principally due to the fuel efficiency of the Mirrlees engine.

The main competition was intending to use the gas -guzzling GM645.

 

I was behind 60095 when it worked the Regional Railways day on a Barrow-Manchester service along the WCML. Quick up to 60mph and then the limiter cut in...……..

Class 60 no. 60095 Crib Goch @ Kent Viaduct, Arnside, Cumbria, 25/04/1992 [slide 9299]

 

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3 hours ago, newbryford said:

I was behind 60095 when it worked the Regional Railways day on a Barrow-Manchester service along the WCML. Quick up to 60mph and then the limiter cut in...……..

 

 

 

I think 032 & 057 were the first pair to work a passenger train, I seem to recall them getting somewhat over 60 mph as one of them hadn't been fully set up yet. The coal sector one proved somewhat harder to get after that incident!!!

Edited by D6775

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G'day Folks

 

Seeing how quickly Mirrlees and Blackstone engines, lasted on 1st Gen locos, I'm surprised they went back to them ????

 

manna

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