Wickham Green too Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 On 30/01/2021 at 13:20, NHY 581 said: One can never have too many vans...... ................... so long as they're outnumbered by opens ! 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkSG Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 12 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said: ................... so long as they're outnumbered by opens ! By approximately two to one, of course https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisbech_and_Upwell_Tramway#/media/File:Wisbech_and_Upwell_Tramway_(postcard).jpg (That's obviously not the van in this thread. But, still, it would work well in that kind of scene). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 7 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said: ................... so long as they're outnumbered by opens ! Depends.... If you are modelling a coal mining or rural area it would be all opens and minerals. But I was looking at a pre war aerial photo of part of Liverpool docks and it was virtually all vans. I think the only opens in view were being used for timber. Jason 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkSG Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 31 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said: If you are modelling a coal mining or rural area it would be all opens and minerals. Unless it's a fruit and veg growing rural area, in which case vans are a key component of most freight trains. Although, in such locations, the season would make a very big difference. During harvest, vans will be the dominant traffic. But for the rest of the year, and particularly in winter when heating requirements are greatest, coal wagons will predominate. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 I was more pointing out that using statistics for your rolling stock building/buying is flawed. I've seen figures quoted in magazines and books such as "there were over 500,000 PO mineral wagons in year 19XX so you need lots of them". Not if the place you are modelling never saw them. Jason 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Lamb Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 2 hours ago, MarkSG said: Unless it's a fruit and veg growing rural area, in which case vans are a key component of most freight trains. Although, in such locations, the season would make a very big difference. During harvest, vans will be the dominant traffic. But for the rest of the year, and particularly in winter when heating requirements are greatest, coal wagons will predominate. Or paper and board. Hemel Midland sent out long trains of vans with very little other than domestic coal coming in. Most opens were unloaded at the smaller depots or were bound for the gas works. A vey unusual mix, even more so when you add in the very local water cress business. Bernard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy2305 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 If we use the Oxford GE van as an example, the GER built 3,338 covered vans to this style (between three diagrams) whereas they built 15,791 5 plank open wagons; that's essentially one van to every five opens (and that's before we consider the 2,736 7 plank opens...). - James 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbedford Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 The 19' vans were built from 1903 till 1923. In the same period the GER built no 5 plank wagons and 2736 7 plank opens. As you said 15791 5 plank opens were built from 1885 till 1902, while 3434 16' vans were built in the same period. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted January 31, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 31, 2021 For general merchandise wagons and vans, and discounting special vehicles (shocvan, conflats, insulated etc for specific traffic), the 20th century's first 65 years saw a change in the ratios of opens to vans and unfitted to fitted in favour over time of vans and fitted. For pregrouping opens should very considerably outnumber vans, vans advancing to perhaps one vehicle in 3 during the big 4 period and about 50% by the mid 50s. By this time the BR cull of older wagons and vans was in full swing, and the ratio of fitted to unfitted vehicles was increasing rapidly, and our GER van was coming to the end of it's life. The progress was assisted by the wagon cull and the rapid drop in traffic that occurred from about 1955 onwards, the Beeching cuts finishing off effectively all unfitted general merchandise vehicles in revenue traffic. Minerals were about 25 years behind this, and some specialist unfitted wagons, such as bolsters, survived for a very long time as well, but by the late 60s virtually all general merchandise was fitted, and vans outnumbered opens by about 5 to 1. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted February 1, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 1, 2021 10 hours ago, The Johnster said: For general merchandise wagons and vans, and discounting special vehicles (shocvan, conflats, insulated etc for specific traffic), the 20th century's first 65 years saw a change in the ratios of opens to vans and unfitted to fitted in favour over time of vans and fitted. For pregrouping opens should very considerably outnumber vans, vans advancing to perhaps one vehicle in 3 during the big 4 period and about 50% by the mid 50s. On the Midland, the proportion of vans (or covered goods wagons to use the terminology of the day) rose from 1.7% in 1894 to 7% by 1914, of which about 10% were fitted with the automatic vacuum brake. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted March 19, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 19, 2021 On 28/01/2021 at 20:33, gwrrob said: Samples are expected after Chinese New Year. On 28/01/2021 at 21:53, Suffolk Dave said: After 12th February then - excellent news! I was rather hoping to have heard something more on these samples by now. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimwal Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 3 hours ago, gwrrob said: I was rather hoping to have heard something more on these samples by now. Pandemic delays? A year or so of it for a decade of excuses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted March 20, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 20, 2021 Hope not, and Chinese manufacture has so far coped very well with the pandemic; more problems have arisen from Brexit and a world wide container shortage. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted March 20, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 20, 2021 (edited) The real issue is that Covid, or rather the measures imposed to control it, disrupted the established circulatory patterns of container traffic, delaying the arrival of return loads and empties to China. Manufacturing a whole bunch of new containers would help, but probably only for a while, and the only permanent solution is to unravel the Western logjam. The UK and EU nations are by no means the only countries affected, so while Brexit won't have helped, it's not the root of the problem. The $64,000 question is whether re-establishing normal freight movements can happen any quicker than a return to something approaching normality in general. Whatever up-beat assessments politicians may offer, I reckon that even 90% of "normality" (worldwide) is closer to three years away than three months. We'd therefore be sensible to anticipate delays to the arrival of our models for a while yet, I think. John Edited March 20, 2021 by Dunsignalling 2 3 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted March 21, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 21, 2021 I reckon we'll be feeling some of the aftermath of this pandemic for the rest of our lives, even the younger of us, and certainly for the maybe 20 years or so I've got left before withdrawal from service and scrapping. I very much doubt if it will ever be normal not to wear a face covering indoors in public, and there will be issues regarding personal space, no standing at the bar in pubs, and much else that will be apparent for many years to come, not least the decades it will take for the world's economies to fully recover (we haven't seen the bill yet!). But trade and industry seem to have been pretty resilient. No doubt many smaller businesses are too damaged to survive and will fail in the next year or so; I doubt very much if at least one of my local pubs will ever open again, but those large enough to absorb the hit will survive and thrive. We all know that our RTR firms have made a killing over the pandemic, and this is a pattern repeated in hobby and DIY spending; economically, it's mostly but not entirely bad news. I will be happy to recieve my van whenever it comes; after all, it isn't a 94xx... The sooner the better of course, but I'm not losing sleep over it. It is a want rather than a need at Cwmdimbath which has a sufficiency of vans. and I'm buying it because it has a lot of character and I like it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 So the GWR peeps are panicking over GER vans. You all need a J15 to go with them. Jason 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted March 22, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 22, 2021 Like the GE 0-6-0s allocated to Kidderminster during the war? The locomen were not impressed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted March 22, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 22, 2021 12 minutes ago, The Johnster said: Like the GE 0-6-0s allocated to Kidderminster during the war? The locomen were not impressed. As in all cases of engines being lent out, the lenders, no doubt, would have kept the good ones for themselves.... John 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 I would always take such comments from old enginemen with a pinch of salt. You could give them a brand new A4 and some of them would say "It's not as good as old Gladstone, that's a proper engine".... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted March 22, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 22, 2021 4 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said: I would always take such comments from old enginemen with a pinch of salt. You could give them a brand new A4 and some of them would say "It's not as good as old Gladstone, that's a proper engine".... You can be sure the fireman would have preferred Gladstone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 Fireman? That's Where's That Fire? rather than Oh. Mr Porter! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbedford Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 2 hours ago, The Johnster said: Like the GE 0-6-0s allocated to Kidderminster during the war? The locomen were not impressed. The wartime transfer of LNER locos to the GWR was for 40 ex-NER class P1 (J25). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Worsdell forever Posted March 22, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 22, 2021 19 minutes ago, billbedford said: The wartime transfer of LNER locos to the GWR was for 40 ex-NER class P1 (J25). Most were ready for scrap, the GWR asked for goods locos then complained as they didn't have vacuum brakes, because they wanted to pull passenger trains with them... Perhaps the GWR treated passengers like cattle? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted March 22, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 22, 2021 27 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said: Fireman? That's Where's That Fire? rather than Oh. Mr Porter! The evidence suggests otherwise. For example, Midland Railway Study Centre Item 23974. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 1 hour ago, Compound2632 said: The evidence suggests otherwise. For example, Midland Railway Study Centre Item 23974. Ah. But I was referencing Will Hay films.... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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