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Garethp8873

GER 10T Goods Van announced!

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One GER loco.  Several ex-GER locos.

 

That needs to change.

 

A van with a GER livery option is a significant step forward.  Oxford is to be commended.

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8 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

One GER loco.  Several ex-GER locos.

 

The market is still dominated by the BR steam period for which pre-grouping locomotives in late condition are spot on - well nigh essential for a balanced stud of locomotives if you are modelling anything other than the ECML and WCML (and how many have the space to do those justice) or the WR (always a special case).

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1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

The market is still dominated by the BR steam period for which pre-grouping locomotives in late condition are spot on - well nigh essential for a balanced stud of locomotives if you are modelling anything other than the ECML and WCML (and how many have the space to do those justice) or the WR (always a special case).

 

And no one says you can't or shouldn't still have those.

 

The number of modelers for whom they are 'spot on' will inevitably decrease, however.  Smaller constituencies of preservation, pre-Grouping and Grouping modelers will become increasingly important in making up the numbers if steam-outline models are to continue. 

 

 

 

Edited by Edwardian
spelling!
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I realise that the steam era is a broad church, but I’ve never heard of pew-grouping 

3 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

 

And no one says you can't or shouldn't still have those.

 

The number of modelers for whom they are 'spot on' will inevitably decrease, however.  Smaller constituencies of preservation, pew-Grouping and Grouping modelers will become increasingly important in making up the numbers if steam-outline models are to continue. 

 

IGMC

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6 minutes ago, truffy said:

I’ve never heard of pew-grouping 

 

 

Good, then I get the chance to educate you!

 

Pew Group

 

1113763099_1024px-Figure_Group_Staffordshire_c._1740-1750_-_Nelson-Atkins_Museum_of_Art_-_DSC08710_(cropped).jpeg.c9a45926d1ac9d7caba900e205797499.jpeg

 

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1 hour ago, Edwardian said:

One GER loco.  Several ex-GER locos.

 

That needs to change.

 

A van with a GER livery option is a significant step forward.  Oxford is to be commended.

Absolutely. The great thing about pre-grouping wagons, as opposed to coaches, is that they wandered the country. Thus, one pre-grouping wagon can go into a train hauled by more-or-less any company’s goods loco. I see three problems. First, only about one-third of wagons were owned by railway companies, the rest being the private owner wagons so beloved by manufacturers. Second, manufacturers are too much inclined to slap PO liveries on wagon models belonging to a later era. Third, manufacturers tend to produce only one wagon belonging to each PO, when, mostly, they ran in multiples. The numbers on these wagons are often very prominent and distinctive, so are not easily changed. The worst case, if I recall correctly, is Nathaniel Atrill. Bachmann, Dapol and Hornby have all produced wagon No. 6. I can see what’s going on – a specimen photo is taken of a wagon which is No. 6 and that is what they all reproduce; the downside of modelling from a photograph.

 

Before anyone points it out, I am aware that Hornby produced a pack of three Atrill wagons with different numbers.

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2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

The market is still dominated by the BR steam period for which pre-grouping locomotives in late condition are spot on - well nigh essential for a balanced stud of locomotives if you are modelling anything other than the ECML and WCML...

FTFY!

I need at least 44 steam classes to accurately represent what could be seen on the ECML in my chosen 56-61 period. Fifteen steam classes dominate, but the rest could be and were seen, and so should make their occasional stage appearances.

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1 hour ago, No Decorum said:

Absolutely. The great thing about pre-grouping wagons, as opposed to coaches, is that they wandered the country. Thus, one pre-grouping wagon can go into a train hauled by more-or-less any company’s goods loco. I see three problems. First, only about one-third of wagons were owned by railway companies, the rest being the private owner wagons so beloved by manufacturers. Second, manufacturers are too much inclined to slap PO liveries on wagon models belonging to a later era. Third, manufacturers tend to produce only one wagon belonging to each PO, when, mostly, they ran in multiples. The numbers on these wagons are often very prominent and distinctive, so are not easily changed. The worst case, if I recall correctly, is Nathaniel Atrill. Bachmann, Dapol and Hornby have all produced wagon No. 6. I can see what’s going on – a specimen photo is taken of a wagon which is No. 6 and that is what they all reproduce; the downside of modelling from a photograph.

 

Before anyone points it out, I am aware that Hornby produced a pack of three Atrill wagons with different numbers.

..... and, of course, many of the smaller 'owners' only had one wagon so multiple sales of ready-to-run ( or decorated kit ) wagons can distort even Rule 1 history !

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8 minutes ago, Wickham Green said:

..... and, of course, many of the smaller 'owners' only had one wagon so multiple sales of ready-to-run ( or decorated kit ) wagons can distort even Rule 1 history !

 

Also, No 6 may have been the only wagon they ever owned, so putting No 2 on your second model wouldn't work.

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Pre grouping coaches got about a bit  as well.  My great uncle Ted, a bit of a character who has graced this forum before, joined the GW after being demobbed from the catering corps in 1919, as a restaurant car steward on the Barry-Newcastle ‘Ports to Ports Express’, which took GW stock to North Shields and a reciprocal set of NER stock to Barry on alternate days.  Other cross country services were similar in this regard. 

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4 hours ago, Edwardian said:

 

Good, then I get the chance to educate you!

 

Pew Group

 

1113763099_1024px-Figure_Group_Staffordshire_c._1740-1750_-_Nelson-Atkins_Museum_of_Art_-_DSC08710_(cropped).jpeg.c9a45926d1ac9d7caba900e205797499.jpeg

 

 

This calls for prosecution for cruelty to an octopus, among other crimes.

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15 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

This calls for prosecution for cruelty to an octopus, among other crimes.

 

Just be grateful it's not DCC, otherwise you'd have sound.

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3 hours ago, Worsdell forever said:

 

Also, No 6 may have been the only wagon they ever owned, so putting No 2 on your second model wouldn't work.

Indeed - many single-wagon owners didn't want to admit they'd only got one so numbered it other than "1" ............ or they might have owned a succession and numbered each one higher than its predecessor .......

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3 hours ago, Worsdell forever said:

 

Also, No 6 may have been the only wagon they ever owned, so putting No 2 on your second model wouldn't work.


Case in point, I have this on order, No. 105. According to Gaugemaster’s write up, it’s believed to have been their only one:

https://www.gaugemasterretail.com/magento/gaugemaster-gm4410201.html
 

Bless ‘em

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Very puzzled to see Hattons has the LNER version 630616 in Bauxite.  But 630616 is unfitted, so would be grey.

 

Just Hattons assuming or has Oxford indicated it will be bauxite?

 

 

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4 hours ago, ColHut said:

Very puzzled to see Hattons has the LNER version 630616 in Bauxite.  But 630616 is unfitted, so would be grey.

 

Just Hattons assuming or has Oxford indicated it will be bauxite?

 

 

May it not be that the livery is correct but the number is wrong? I gather it's already been established that the number first quoted for the GE liveried version was wrong, being for a wood-framed van, but since corrected.

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For sure  :)   It would be tough if they got 2 out of 3 wrong though.   There is a picture of 630616  in Tatlow's Ilustrated Overview (plate 55)  which I think is why they chose it,  LNER livery, steel underframe, unfitted.

 

regards

Edited by ColHut
clarity

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On 31/01/2020 at 13:34, The Johnster said:

Pre grouping coaches got about a bit  as well.  My great uncle Ted, a bit of a character who has graced this forum before, joined the GW after being demobbed from the catering corps in 1919, as a restaurant car steward on the Barry-Newcastle ‘Ports to Ports Express’, which took GW stock to North Shields and a reciprocal set of NER stock to Barry on alternate days.  Other cross country services were similar in this regard. 

 

I'm being a pedant here, but didn't the Ports Express take GW stock north and NE stock to Wales on the same day and each back the next?

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On 31/01/2020 at 09:17, Edwardian said:

 

Good, then I get the chance to educate you!

 

Pew Group

 

1113763099_1024px-Figure_Group_Staffordshire_c._1740-1750_-_Nelson-Atkins_Museum_of_Art_-_DSC08710_(cropped).jpeg.c9a45926d1ac9d7caba900e205797499.jpeg

 

Ah, now is that a Stradivarius the chap on the left has? If so, then you would never have had someone holding one in that sort of pew. This is the sort of schoolboy error we are trying to eliminate.

Edited by 57xx
bad formatting from using tablet.

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7 minutes ago, 57xx said:

 

 

7 minutes ago, 57xx said:

Ah, now is that a Stradivarius the chap on the left has? If so, then you would never have had someone holding one in that sort of pew. This is the sort of schoolboy error we are trying to eliminate.

He’s not playing it – he’s holding it by the fingerboard as he plays with his mobile phone.

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I lost an image of a wooden PO open wagon following a computer failure which broke the hard drive.  It was an image of a signwritten wagon at York ( I think)  in the mid 1960s,  very faded paint but still very readable,  I seem to recall the name of the wagon began with Harry, but could be very wrong on that point. It was probably the last  one still out on the BR network. I recall seeing the same   wagon on a train passing  through Doncaster

 

Does anyone help me refind the image?

Edited by Pandora

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2 hours ago, Pandora said:

I lost an image of a wooden PO open wagon following a computer failure which broke the hard drive.  It was an image of a signwritten wagon at York ( I think)  in the mid 1960s,  very faded paint but still very readable,  I seem to recall the name of the wagon began with Harry, but could be very wrong on that point. It was probably the last  one still out on the BR network. I recall seeing the same   wagon on a train passing  through Doncaster

 

Does anyone help me refind the image?

 

Do you still have the hard drive? I'd be happy to attempt recovery.

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On ‎29‎/‎01‎/‎2020 at 11:13, Bucoops said:

 

I've got 3 D&S ones but would want some more - so if they were of a better standard than the Oxford ones (and they probably would be) I'd have a few more. I'd rather buy kits than RTR.

I think experience teaches us that there is no r-t-r maker out there that's immune to significant errors where wagons are concerned.

 

Bachmann have, more often than not, messed up Morton brake gear on their (non-LNER) fitted stock and don't always get the unfitted variety right on simple 16T minerals. Their BR cattle wagon is a dogs breakfast and the LMS one should have been left in the 1970s where it began. Hornby's new stuff is generally excellent, though much of their "back catalogue" is much less so and even they have just recently finished LSWR/SR brakes in the wrong colour. Heljan fit silly little HO wheelsets to their otherwise competent Dogfish. Dapol, Bachmann and Hornby still produce ex-GWR (and other) vans that are at least a scale 6" too wide.

 

All that before we begin to question why both Hornby and Dapol persist in churning out ex-Airfix 7-plank opens whose only resemblance whatever to any prototype is the number of planks, wheels, and buffers.

 

Personally, I think Oxford could regain a bit of credibility if they were to sort out their LNER cattle wagon. It seems pretty good until one looks more closely and the mistakes do spoil it. Properly mirror image the sides and stick it on a 10' wheelbase so as to justify the BR livery, and it would be up there with Hornby's SR ones.

 

John

Edited by Dunsignalling
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