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Standard Cowans Sheldon 15T Crane (mk1 and mk2 Jib) announced!

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Standard Cowans Sheldon 15T Crane (mk1 and mk2 Jib) announced. Didn't think it'd take long after Bachmann released theirs... :)

 

Four have been announced:

 

OR76SCS1001    Standard Cowans Sheldon 15T Crane BR Stoke M.P.D No.RS1023/15
OR76SCS1002    Standard Cowans Sheldon 15T Crane LMS Wellingborough No.243
OR76SCS2001    Standard Cowans Sheldon 15T Crane BR Stewarts Lane DS.316
OR76SCS2002    Standard Cowans Sheldon 15T Crane LNER Sunderland No.901628

Edited by Garethp8873
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This looks like a run of the mill type crane, so should fit with many more of our railway layouts than Bachmann's crane, which is large.  And at considerably less outlay, I suspect!

 

Can anyone enlighten us as to what the difference is between the mk 1 and mk 2 jibs, please?

 

John Storey

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16 minutes ago, it's-er said:

Can anyone enlighten us as to what the difference is between the mk 1 and mk 2 jibs, please?

 

I think it's curved and swan neck jib ends.

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Another D&S kit given the RTR treatment.

 

Expect a glut of unbuilt ones on ebay in 5,4,3,2,1....

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Interesting news on the Cowans Sheldon crane, 

 

I understand that Cowans Sheldon no.8 was allocated to Newton Abbot during 1947, which naturally will be perfect for my needs.   Is the model going to be suitable for a repaint to this variant, or did Cowans have several differnet designs of 15t crane?  Would be interested to know which of the initial Oxford releases is going to be the closest start point. 

 

I am assuming given the price (Hattons are quoting £17) that this is purely for the crane itself and doesn’t include a match wagon? (Not that it will really matter if I was to modify to get the  GW no8 that I want, given Brassmasters sell a kit for the match wagon.)  If its going to be a viable start point I will get on and order a Brassmasters match truck asap.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, The Fatadder said:

Interesting news on the Cowans Sheldon crane, 

 

I understand that Cowans Sheldon no.8 was allocated to Newton Abbot during 1947, which naturally will be perfect for my needs.   Is the model going to be suitable for a repaint to this variant, or did Cowans have several differnet designs of 15t crane?  Would be interested to know which of the initial Oxford releases is going to be the closest start point. 

 

I am assuming given the price (Hattons are quoting £17) that this is purely for the crane itself and doesn’t include a match wagon? (Not that it will really matter if I was to modify to get the  GW no8 that I want, given Brassmasters sell a kit for the match wagon.)  If its going to be a viable start point I will get on and order a Brassmasters match truck asap.

 

 

 

Peter Tatlow's Railway Breakdown Cranes Volune 1 covers the variants very nicely. Main changes were the match wagons, but some of the cranes had cabs put on etc.

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£17 seems very cheap for what is a fairly complex model, not that I'm complaining though!

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The listing on Hattons says that Oxford have advised the price of the crane may be revised

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1 hour ago, The Fatadder said:

Interesting news on the Cowans Sheldon crane, 

 

I understand that Cowans Sheldon no.8 was allocated to Newton Abbot during 1947, which naturally will be perfect for my needs.   Is the model going to be suitable for a repaint to this variant, or did Cowans have several differnet designs of 15t crane?  Would be interested to know which of the initial Oxford releases is going to be the closest start point. 

 

I am assuming given the price (Hattons are quoting £17) that this is purely for the crane itself and doesn’t include a match wagon? (Not that it will really matter if I was to modify to get the  GW no8 that I want, given Brassmasters sell a kit for the match wagon.)  If its going to be a viable start point I will get on and order a Brassmasters match truck asap.

 

 

Scot from Oxford Rail is interviewed late on in this video & say the crane is a Standard crane so it can be used for any railway Co & that is why it is not been Supplied with a match truck as Each Co had a different match truck this keep the cost down the crane with come with a Jib holder for the buyer to add to a any wagon    

 

 

Edited by mozzer models
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Can anyone give any background history to each of these four models at all please? I do not have a copy of the Tatlow crane books to hand.

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4 hours ago, The Fatadder said:

I am assuming given the price (Hattons are quoting £17) that this is purely for the crane itself and doesn’t include a match wagon? (Not that it will really matter if I was to modify to get the  GW no8 that I want, given Brassmasters sell a kit for the match wagon.)  If its going to be a viable start point I will get on and order a Brassmasters match truck asap.

 

 

 

No 8 had a Diagram L15 match wagon which measured 19' 6" long over the headstocks  with an 11' wheelbase as opposed to the L4 (that produced by Brassmasters) which was 22' 6" long and had a 13' wheelbase.

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23 minutes ago, SP Steve said:

 

No 8 had a Diagram L15 match wagon which measured 19' 6" long over the headstocks  with an 11' wheelbase as opposed to the L4 (that produced by Brassmasters) which was 22' 6" long and had a 13' wheelbase.

That’s rather unfortunate.   I guess the availability of a drawing for the L15 will be the determining factor between scratch building or compromise.  

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The photograph being used to illustrate this model is a Derby official of Midland Railway crane No. 27, later No. 242, as new from Cowans Sheldon - their works No. 1856, of 1893. Here's another photo from the same set:

 

745110821_DY603Cranesteam.jpg.a76f595fda17c44ba04038e248557766.jpg

 

NRM DY 603, released under the Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike (CC BY-NC-SA 3.0) licence by the National Railway Museum.

 

Oxford's No. 243, originally numbered 28, was from the same batch of four (Cowans Sheldon works No. 1857) and was stationed at Wellingborough from new. It was paired with match wagon 114906 - a purpose-built vehicle, as were all Midland match wagons. The drawing for this, Drg. 847, is available on the Midland Railway Study Centre website although it would appear details of the jib rest in that drawing apply to match wagons for a couple of 10 ton cranes, Lots 262 and 514; the match wagons of Lot 321 (for the 1893 15 ton cranes) and 463 (for the 1899 batch of cranes with the later style of jib) had jib rests that were lower and wider. For full details, see D. Hunt, Midland Record No. 2 (Wild Swan).

 

Here's No. 28 in action, along with a 5 ton (?) hand crane, tidying up after the accident at Irchester Junction, 1894:

 

198949892_DY607AccidentatIrchesterJunction.jpg.eb92a032c380cb708b851af6a8ebc30e.jpg

 

NRM DY 607, released under the Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike (CC BY-NC-SA 3.0) licence by the National Railway Museum.

 

The price I've seen quoted in various places seems extraordinarily low for a model of such a complex prototype, so I'm not getting rid of my D&S kit just yet... 

 

Edited by Compound2632
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Another photo of the Midland crane, with its runner can be found in this link ~

 

http://www.bdca.org.uk/first.html

 

I believe Oxford have said when asked by Phil Parker that these cranes used 3 and 5 plank opens as runners, and based on quick glances at photos this could at first be taken as correct. However, the image in the link clearly shows a much longer wheelbase than the typical 9ft open being used, and the length of the jib on what appears to be at least an 11ft wheelbase runner wagon is getting close to overhanging that. So the caveat to saying they used 3 and 5 plank runners is that those runners were not your typical 3 and 5 plank wagons to begin with, so a starting point for making a runner would be better suited to a pipe or plate wagon.

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Not doing the match wagons is a bit rubbish, it would b better to do a £30 crane and match wagon than just a crane on its own. Yes that would need a different match wagon for each crane, but that's what being a serious manufacturer in 2020 is about.

 

Ironically the only suitable match truck kit I can find is he Brassasters GWR type, but that isn't suitable for the basic crane without the GWR cab.

 

Jon 

(who has built 2x D&S mk2's and has a third, along with the Brassmaster GWR match truck in the to-do pile).

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27 minutes ago, Zunnan said:

However, the image in the link clearly shows a much longer wheelbase than the typical 9ft open being used, and the length of the jib on what appears to be at least an 11ft wheelbase runner wagon is getting close to overhanging that. So the caveat to saying they used 3 and 5 plank runners is that those runners were not your typical 3 and 5 plank wagons to begin with, so a starting point for making a runner would be better suited to a pipe or plate wagon.

 

The drawing to which I linked shows that the match wagons built for No. 28/243 and its brethren were 17'11" over headstocks and 10'6" wheelbase. Otherwise, details are standard for Midland wagons of the period, so bits from various Slaters kits could be a starting point for a bash - though could well end up costing more than the crane, if the price mentioned in various places is to be believed! 

 

The crane in the photo on the BDCA website is No. 246, originally No. 32 (works No. 2236) of the Midland's 1899 batch, with match wagon No. 116950 of Lot 463 - this lot were to a revised drawing, with the addition of equipment lockers under the frame. 

 

Very specific wagons, for which drawings are available, and integral to any model of one of these cranes, at least the Midland / LMS ones - I can't vouch for lesser lines. But any old converted wagon they are not.

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2 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

The drawing to which I linked shows that the match wagons built for No. 28/243 and its brethren were 17'11" over headstocks and 10'6" wheelbase. Otherwise, details are standard for Midland wagons of the period, so bits from various Slaters kits could be a starting point for a bash - though could well end up costing more than the crane, if the price mentioned in various places is to be believed! 

 

 

Yes, looking at the drawing you posted, I was wondering if a bit of Slaters butchery might achieve something a bit more convincing than just using a bog-standard 3 or 5 plank. Certainly my first thought of repurposing a Slaters Midland D305 or one of my collection of assorted Mainline/Dapol/Parkside/Ratio LMS D1927 3-planks isn't really going to cut the mustard

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I can sort of see the sense in not doing individual runners as each company had their own ideas on what they required from their equipment, so to tool up a different runner for each and every crane would probably prove prohibitive. I can also see the frustration in the buyer needing to provide their own runner with presumably little to no information given and more than likely even scarcer models which reflect the prototype; especially if given the 'they typically used 3 and 5 plank wagons' line to follow. You're effectively on a hiding to nothing with the runners. The GWR L4 runners are available through Brassmasters (or did they use L5 as per their 20t Cowans cranes?), but no GWR 15t crane from Oxford unless you relivery...The MR used what appear at very quick glance to be modified 11ft pipe wagons (which they certainly are not), any remotely close kit or model is going to need butchery. Stretching the Slaters 8t open is probably as good a starting point as any, at least the axleboxes, W irons, buffers and end ironwork will be there or there abouts, and stretching planking after chopping a chassis into half a dozen or so bits is probably going to end up the least of your worries. The LNER one used at some point in its life a modified plate wagon which makes it perhaps the easiest one to model, and I'm sure I've seen a photo of another using a modified 4 wheel well wagon in later life...the permeations are nearly endless.

 

For the price point, its a very handy bit of kit, and I'm much more amenable to modifying it if the detail is found to be lacking.  My main concern is whether they're modelled as built or rather have the cab modelled, which as they are doing them in LMS/LNER/BR condition you would have to assume they will have the cab. And yes, that runner is probably going to cost more than the crane itself, and you'll probably have to build it yourself if you want something remotely accurate.

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2 minutes ago, Zunnan said:

I can also see the frustration in the buyer needing to provide their own runner

 

OI don't know. I've been itching to do a match wagon for a while, much in the manner you describe, though my favorites are the fore-and-aft pairs provided for the 5 ton hand cranes - one with jib rest, the other with recessed end for the overhanging weight box. Those at least had the standard 14'11" long, 9'0" wheelbase underframes provided for by the Slaters kits.

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Ok, ordered one. Let's see if they have different or all the same jibs. If not, well, I'm sure I'll manage. 

 

At least most of the runners were simple.

 

Mind you the Caley insisted on using a low sided six wheel wagon with outside W irons. But I like scratchbuilding wagons. 

 

 

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So, steam cranes are the new London buses. You wait for ages, and then....

 

I wonder whether this might prompt Hornby to do an updated version of one of their cranes?

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4 minutes ago, MarkSG said:

So, steam cranes are the new London buses. You wait for ages, and then....

 

I wonder whether this might prompt Hornby to do an updated version of one of their cranes?

Why, they have lovely Railroad models to undercut any serious competition.

 

Wonder though who will be the first to combine a industrial loco with a crane

 

Andrew Barclay crane engine anyone?

https://ribblesteam.org.uk/exhibits/steam/andrew-barclay-0-4-0ct-crane-880-1902-glenfield-no1/

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2 hours ago, The Fatadder said:

That’s rather unfortunate.   I guess the availability of a drawing for the L15 will be the determining factor between scratch building or compromise.  

 Tourrett's "GWR GOODS WAGONS" carries a 4mm(ish) drawing for an L15 showing side and end dimensions. It also has a side on image of a diagram L1 No 211 which also appears on the brassmaster build instructions.

 

A quick comparison / rough calculation seem to show that the top gubbins on both diagrams are to the same dimensions but with the L1 version having more of an end platform to each end than does the L15 (not surprising given that it's longer!). Looking at the brassmaster etches then it would be quite feasible to cut a central section from the wagon floor / sole bar assembly to shorten it, the W irons come as separate items so the shorter wheelbase could be accommodated and then the upper boxed assembly would provide a suitable means of holding it all together.

 

Were I looking for such a match wagon then I think this would be the route I would take - at the very least the brassmaster etches would give you a decent upper assembly to which one could marry a scratch built chassis (give or take the odd rivet or two).

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@SP Steve  thanks again for the detailed reply, I had been wondering if the boxes etc would be similar in size between the two diagrams.  Certainly gives me a lot to think about.

 

though I would say scratch building the cab is going to be the hardest part.  Unless the fabled Brassmasters GWR conversion kit can be used.

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